Discussion in 'Pittsburgh Penguins' started by ColePens, Jun 30, 2019.
Hm. Sounds familiar. Why aren’t you going to bat for him ala Sprong?
Oh the irony.
This is probably true, and also why I don’t hate the deal
Despite the groupthink hate for James neal, I hated giving up that shot, but we had to to get Horny, who we needed cause we lacked net front guys.
I despise giving up a bonafide offensive superstar like Kessel, but he was more a playmaker than a shooter here.. and since malkin and crosby are better playmakers and since they both tend to go through phases where they pass up shots like crazy, I want a shoot first guy with a heck of a shot that can fire it BEFORE the d and goalie get reset after an amazing pass
We only really have jake that does that and its not like he can play 30 minutes a night
I could argue that Sully is as good as or better than any of those coaches. Best case scenario has Gally in the top 6 so I'm thinking that Sully keeps him there no matter what to make it fit.
Just remember folks that Kessel is 31 and Galchenyuk is 25. While Gally might not be as good as Kessel he's much younger and we will keep his offensive production longer unless he bolts to UFA in which case more cap space I guess.
Kessel will be going from a team that averaged 3.30 goals/game to a team that averaged 2.55 goals/game last season. Unless they made other improvements, don't be surprised and don't be too hard on him if he hovers around 60 points for the season. Their leading scorer last season had 47 points.
I don't think anyone hated Neal because he of the kind of player he was, I think people hated him because he did nothing in the playoffs and was a dirty and lazy player. The shot, production and chemistry with Malkin were all good things with Neal, it was just the bad stuff that made people want him gone.
I do agree with your stance though, but I'd also add the comment that the goal should be a winger who can be both a playmaker and a goal scorer. That's what makes Guentzel so special, he can both produce a ton with Crosby and also drive offense if Crosby is being suffocated. That's what I'm optimistic Galchenyuk can be here, I think he can be Malkin's Guentzel.
Edit: I do find it kinda funny that some of the Galchenyuk critics also were Sprong supporters, because Galchenyuk is basically a lefty Sprong if Sprong hit his upside. People wanted to see Sprong with Malkin because they seemed like great fits for each other, now the Penguins have an actual top-6 caliber Sprong to play with Malkin.
How is that ironic? Galchenyuk is probably better defensively than Kessel, but both are bad defensively and neither is going to be offering anything defensively. I don't see the irony there at all, that comment is more so "I'm not going to give Galchenyuk credit for being better defensively than Kessel" than anything.
Who says I'm not? I never denied Sprong's defensive shortcomings, I simply said they shouldn't prevent him from seeing opportunities in a scoring role.
Right now the topic is how coachable Galchenyuk is relative to Kessel and whether that might make him a better defensive player here - his track record of being demoted and moved across positions on account of defensive shortcomings suggests that's probably not in the cards.
No less inclined to move players around though.
Like I said, Kessel spent an awful lot of time outside of the top 6 this year.
Michel Therrien and Claude Julien’s treatment of Galchenyuk really means nothing to me. Those guys suck. Tocchet IMO isn’t a very good head coach.
Interesting how Kessel spent an “awful lot of time outside of the top 6” when Sheary was “strapped to Sidney Crosby in 17-18.
Kessel this year 620 mins at 5v5 with Sid and Malkin 400 mins without.
Sheary 580 at 5v5 with and 390 without.
Funny how the narratives change when they fit your points.
Forgetting for the moment that Julien's one of the few coaches who's been to the Cup Finals twice in the last 10 years, the point is that it's a pattern...one that manifested itself with multiple coaches and teams and one that Sullivan himself isn't averse to.
Or are you going to argue that Sullivan isn't the type that would move a forward struggling with defensive duties up and down the depth chart?
Playing the majority of your time with an elite center is a huge advantage, but by the sounds of it people are assuming that Galchenyuk will be spending virtually all his time in the top 6, and projecting big spikes in production based on that assumption. Do you think that changes if he spends 2/5 of his TOI with Bjugstad centering him? I'd say so.
If my phrasing of Sheary "being strapped to" Crosby strikes you as too extreme, I'll happily amend it to "spent the majority of time with" so we can get off the semantic carousel.
Claude Julien iced prime Tyler Seguin. Call me when Sullivan does that. Sullivan has butchered one prospect in his time here and that was Sprong. He’s actually a fairly safe bet to give players chances if they are responsive.
I think Bjugstad at worse is a comparable to the best center Chucky has played with which is Eller. He has never play with a # 1C let alone a talent like Malkin or Sid.
I'm not talking about prospects, I'm talking forwards who struggle with defensive duties, and Sullivan has clearly had problems with a number of them and thrown his line-ups into the blender accordingly.
I don't know what makes you think Galchenyuk would be immune from this treatment. How often do you think he'll be out of the top 6? I think something similar to Sheary and Kessel's 2/5 of the time is pretty likely.
I realize Keller played wing on the line, but Galchenyuk did play with him last year and had some putrid ES numbers. Playing a good chunk of time with Bjugs would change my math on how much he'd score relative to playing more with Geno but YMMV.
Difference being we have no pure goal scorers and Kessel was moved to the 3rd line as a tactical move, not a demotion.
Sheary was replaced because his offense dried up, not because of his defensive play.
Hm. Arizona was one of the worst ES teams. It looks like he had 17 ES points through 50ish games when he was playing with Keller.
Given the team a 30pt ES pace isn’t that bad IMO. If he comes and puts up a 30 pt ES pace with Malkin, I won’t be ecstatic, but I won’t be unhappy. Especially if the majority of the production is goals.
If this trade is anything like our others in the past.. Galchenyuk will be gone in a year and POJ will become a top dman for us.
How often do you think Galchenyuk will be with Sid and Geno? Are you counting on him being with him all the time or do you think he'd be closer to Sheary/Crosby and Kessel/Malkin?
Agreed. But I don't think it'll make up for losing Kessel.
Depends on how he plays. If him and Geno produce. I’m sure he’ll be fine.
Well, the overall trade needs to be looked at as Galchenyuk and Tanev for Kessel. I think having a player that shoots and Tanev as a bottom sixer will equal Kessel’s ES production.
Sure, but do you have a prediction? Something like those combo examples I gave earlier?
I think that's the most likely. Majority of the time in the top 6, but over 1/3 of the time in the bottom 6.
It's fair to look at it that way, but we can probably agree it'd be dodgy to simply add their ES production together and compare that to Kessel's.
That will depend on, A) how well he does in the top 6 and B) on how well other's do when they eventually get their chance there. But if Gally sticks there like Guentzel did, then I don't think 40 ES points is unrealistic for him, with him getting ~25/30g and 50/60pts overall next season.
The difference between Gally and Kessel/Sheary is that I don't think Gally has their playmaking abilities. He's a shoot first player who IMO will create little offense on his own unless he has skilled players with him to create the offense then get him the puck. As such I don't think we'll see Sullivan try to move him to L3 as much as he tried with Kessel. And if he does go there, it'll be because he's unhappy with how L1/2 is doing and not because he thinks Gally can be the offensive boost Kessel was at times to L3. Sheary is a little different in the sense that when he was on, he was on. And when he wasn't, he wasn't skilled or good enough to warrant a guaranteed spot in the top 6. I think Gally due to him being a better player won't get bumped out of the top 6 as easily as Sheary was.
Not if we trade Rust. Kessel + Rust > AG + Tanev
I do think Kessel is a better goal scorer, but having seen a lot of Galchenyuk in Montreal I can tell you the guy is very skilled.
Galchenyuk never played for a roster this good, he also played for defensive minded coaches and never got any real pp time
For him to work here, MS will have to put him with reliable players and let him go. I know he has a hard time with that but it's what will be best for him and us. He is much more skilled than Sprong and has a bit of the taste having played some center in Montreal.
The only issue I have with getting Galchenyuk is that I am pretty much 100% sure that he isn't going to be back next season. Unless the Pens can find a way to dump some serious salary like say - Moving Gudbranson and not keeping Schultz and miraculously losing JJ during the season via trade or hitman, there's no cap.
And that's also assuming he does well enough to produce 50-60pts (scores at least 30) which will make sure he makes more than his current salary.
So when we trading Galchenyuk to Habs for Domi now?
I don't think Bergevin liked him very much or even Claude Julien. He wanted to play C and they kept toying around with him as a W/C and he wasn't as good as they wanted him to be, but the guy was a decent 45-50pt player.
Also, out of anyone, I'd think we could probably try to get Gallagher in that "funny if this would happen.." kind of way of the Habs wanting him back.
Who do you think will be left out of the first PP unit, Horqvist, Quentzel or Galchenyuk?
I can say with 100% certainty that Quentzel will be a name you don't ever see on the top powerplay.
But no really... likely Gooch, based off of what the team has been saying. Which is kind of unfortunate because that's his supposed bread and butter but it also makes a lot of sense from where the team is sitting. Historically Hornqvist has been extremely productive and even integral there. And Guentzel is their top goal scorer so they sorta kinda HAVE to make room for him.
Galchenyuk also naturally slots in where Sid and Geno do. Which doesn't help his case.
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