Ken Holland's Remarks about the off-season

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Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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Holland was aware of the situation, and I don't believe for a second management would trade a blue chip prospect (as many on here perceive him to be) for a 15-game band aide and "to keep the streak going."

I hope you are right.
 

odin1981

There can be only 1!
Mar 8, 2013
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Once you get in, I honestly believe anything is possible in this sport. Many of you predicted Detroit over Boston.

The people that did and I was one of them figured at least 2-3 players not named Kronwall, Datsyuk, and Z where going to help create offense in the series as well. In all honesty it was sad at how everyone tucked there tails between there legs and checked out after game 2.

Granted I feel that the teams energy level was exhausted just getting into the dance. That's the only thing that I can fall back on to make myself feel better with the performance from any player that wasn't wearing a letter on the team.

Granted our goaltending by either goalie wasn't stellar outside of game 1. But atm our team cannot expect to win a playoff game if we give up more than 2 goals. Weather it was the forward lineup combinations or whatever our defense (3rd pairing was suspect but many where expecting that to be a weak link) but for two years if we can't score at least 3 goals we are not constructed to be a 2-1 team either to win.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
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The people that did and I was one of them figured at least 2-3 players not named Kronwall, Datsyuk, and Z where going to help create offense in the series as well. In all honesty it was sad at how everyone tucked there tails between there legs and checked out after game 2.

I don't think they quit. I think that our 2 best players were hurt, and we were just severely outmatched.
 

odin1981

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I don't think they quit. I think that our 2 best players were hurt, and we were just severely outmatched.

They where hurt yes but the put on there big boy pants and pulled them up and wore them. While everyone else fell by the wayside.
 

Retire91

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May 31, 2010
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Ok, but Jarnkrok is probably gone this offseason anyway. So they'd be losing him for nothing (probably). Holland was aware of the situation, and I don't believe for a second management would trade a blue chip prospect (as many on here perceived him to be) for a 20-game band aide and "to keep the streak going." If Jarnkrok was in their plans going forward they would have likely traded the first round pick (or other prospects) instead of him.

That is because the ship had sailed on making Jarnkrok feel like his future was with the team. If I was a Swedish pro with his potential I wouldn't wait a token 4-5 years to make the NHL just because "that is the way it is" while witnessing Nyquist's and Tartar's treatment with people like Cleary and Sammy on the opening night roster clogging up the ice time. Jarnkrok was not leaving because he had an attitude issue he was leaving because the way the wings management of the roster made no sense and he called them out on it. Good for him for being on an NHL roster this season instead of another 3 years with the Griffins just because.

This season was a pointless playoff. Sure the streak is cool but the readwings were not going to do anything barley sneaking into the 8th of the east. The only thing they accomplished is keeping the streak alive and it cost them 2 future pieces to do it.

I respect that the playoff revenue might be more important to the illich's and if its playoffs at all costs for revenue then that is their call. But you can't have it both ways at some point you need top tier talent to replace Lidstrom, Zetterberg, and Daytsuk and thinking you are going to do it with 5th-7th round picks again is idealistic lunacy. Wings fans have grown accustom to home run late draft picks and top free agents. There is a sense there is no reason to worry about the future because something will come up. That is no guarantee, Holland is struggling to attract top free agents and the scouting these days is less and less likely to leave the next Daytsuk for even the 3rd round.

If they want to make the playoffs by all means keep the streak alive, if you keep trading picks and prospects away to do it the future dwindles and dwindles.
 

Henkka

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You trade the prospect away that won't fit in for your future plans. When Datsyuk signed his 3-year extension and Holland signed Weiss, Järnkrok was enough intelligent to understand that his chances at Detroit was as good as gone.

People on this board still don't understand that. We have better players in front of him and it will be another center wave with younger kids that will fit to our future plan. Sheahan will fit to our future plan, because every center can't be a midget.

Järnkrok's faith was to be in the organization at wrong time. If Datsyuk would have bolted to Russia at this summer, Järnkrok would have huge opportunity right now. But that did't happen. Pavel found a new wife from America and is building a family with her and is staying with us.

Good that he will get a good opportunity to build a career at somewhere else, where he won't have Selke/Conn Smythe Centers in front of him.
 
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Mister Ed

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This season was a pointless playoff. Sure the streak is cool but the readwings were not going to do anything barley sneaking into the 8th of the east. The only thing they accomplished is keeping the streak alive and it cost them 2 future pieces to do it.

At the very least, the 5 playoffs games gave Dekeyser, Sheahan, Tatar, Lashoff and to a lesser extent, Jurco and Ouellet some playoff experience, which will be useful next year. Don't underestimate that.

As for the two future piece, you better believe that Holland and co. took a look at what was available at the draft, what they had down in middle and took a gamble that didn't play out. Hindsight is 20/20.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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At the very least, the 5 playoffs games gave Dekeyser, Sheahan, Tatar, Lashoff and to a lesser extent, Jurco and Ouellet some playoff experience, which will be useful next year. Don't underestimate that.

As for the two future piece, you better believe that Holland and co. took a look at what was available at the draft, what they had down in middle and took a gamble that didn't play out. Hindsight is 20/20.

Would like those to be the last playoff games Lashoff ever plays in a Red Wings jersey, really the last games period. But if he is on the team he better be the #7 and come playoff time you call up one of the guys that is better than him on the farm.

Part of the gamble did pay off, they made the playoffs and the money that goes with it, but I agree with what you're getting at there in general. Lost an asset they assessed they were losing anyway. The bump from a third to a second and the loss of an asset they felt was gone anyway is worth around 6-10 million to Ilitch. Sorry the economics are pretty simple on those and the timeline was not in favor the moment Datsyuk inked that contract and Sheahan ran with his opportunity this season, Jarnkrok became less protected then evolved into a flight risk.

The biggest argument on Jarnkrok is couldn't we have used him to package up to Ehrhoff or Edler. I don't know, I do know we probably aren't making the playoffs without Legwand during his first three week stretch with the team before Babcock decided to drop him into a pure checking role for pretty much no good reason.
 

Claypool

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If they want to make the playoffs by all means keep the streak alive, if you keep trading picks and prospects away to do it the future dwindles and dwindles.

Jarnkrok was gone anyway! He wasn't going to play another year in the AHL. I don't understand why people don't get this. Holland didn't mortgage the future for a playoff run. He traded a disgruntled player and a draft pick for a pretty good center that helped solidify the playoff run. The Red Wings have some of the best prospects in its system in the last 20 years. They're doing just fine there. Trading Jarnkrok wasn't the end of the world. If he was the best prospect in the system, as many claim he was, the Red Wings wouldn't have just given him away. The sky isn't falling. Go outside and get some fresh air.

The biggest argument on Jarnkrok is couldn't we have used him to package up to Ehrhoff or Edler. I don't know, I do know we probably aren't making the playoffs without Legwand during his first three week stretch with the team before Babcock decided to drop him into a pure checking role for pretty much no good reason.

So would you be willing to trade Jarnkrok, a first round pick, and one of Sheahan, Tatar, or Jurco for one of those defenseman? That's probably what it would have cost. I'm not so sure that's a better deal long-term for the Red Wings than the Legwand one.
 
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The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
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Jarnkrok was gone anyway! He wasn't going to play another year in the AHL. I don't understand why people don't get this. Holland didn't mortgage the future for a playoff run. He traded a disgruntled player and a draft pick for a pretty good center that helped solidify the playoff run. The Red Wings have some of the best prospects in its system in the last 20 years. They're doing just fine there. Trading Jarnkrok wasn't the end of the world. If he was the best prospect in the system, as many claim he was, the Red Wings wouldn't have just given him away. The sky isn't falling. Go outside and get some fresh air.



So would you be willing to trade Jarnkrok, a first round pick, and one of Sheahan, Tatar, or Jurco for one of those defenseman? That's probably what it would have cost. I'm not so sure that's a better deal long-term for the Red Wings than the Legwand one.

Not sure, I have been on record as willing to trade Tatar for a while. If Jarnkrok was defecting Tatar and Jarnkrok wouldn't bother me a ton and I hate this years draft for the most part though it looks like the right couple guys might fall, I like Bert's teammate Fabbri a little.

In any event I would like a better player, but if the question was moving Tatar for Ehrhoff I am not as against that as most. I personally think given the stated desire for a right-handed pmd now would be the time to hunt Mike Green. His value is lower than it has been, we might be able to get him back to and his defense really is a lot better than earlier in his career.

Would Washington in the middle of a tailspin listened on Tatar and Jarnkrok for him, heck maybe not even a pick. That interests me, then somewhere down the line you can hopefully turn one of the kid D-man into a bigger player down the middle.

Listen we are not happy with the return on Jarnkrok. I get that, but the idea we really had a lot of time or he has some of the value some are attaching to him around here doesn't really scan to me.

You think we didn't call on Edler and Ehrhoff with his name out there. Problem was we needed a center and that team did want him and with minimal other assets going comparatively. I don't know how long they shopped Jarnkrok but my guess is it was for a couple months, could be his value wasn't where a lot of people like to put that post trade.
 

sepster

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Aug 19, 2005
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Jarnkrok was gone anyway! He wasn't going to play another year in the AHL. I don't understand why people don't get this.

And you make the assumption that Jarnkrok doesn't ever want to play in the NHL. If he is not in the Wings' plans for next year, what does it matter if he goes back to the SEL or plays in the AHL? The Wings want him to develope in the AHL, he wants to make more money in the SEL. Bottom line is that, in that situation, the Wings still own his rights and whenever he wants to come back and play in the NHL he has to come back to the Wings.

I don't see what the huge problem is with letting Jarnkrok go to the SEL, IF that is what he was really going to do, and then come back when the Wings have the room and need for him. That seems like a much better option than trading him for virtually nothing (which is what I said the day the trade was made).
 

DatsyukianDeke*

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My god, people are still talking about the Jarnkrok trade? Talk about bleak news right now...
 

Pavels Dog

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Feb 18, 2013
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My god, people are still talking about the Jarnkrok trade? Talk about bleak news right now...
I'm actually stunned. Especially since he's just had an awful showing at the World Champs. We had a ton of injuries at center, Babcock wanted a veteran, and Jarnkrok isn't the elite prospect people think. Easy as that, let it go.
 

NyquistIsMyGod*

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I think Yakky comes cheaper than Kane believe it or not. I'd take him over Kane too.
 

Claypool

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I don't see what the huge problem is with letting Jarnkrok go to the SEL, IF that is what he was really going to do, and then come back when the Wings have the room and need for him. That seems like a much better option than trading him for virtually nothing (which is what I said the day the trade was made).

They wanted him to gain experience playing in the AHL. He doesn't get preferential treatment over other prospects. Jarnkrok didn't want to come to the prospect camp last summer and the Wings allowed it. They won't let him do whatever he and his agent wants.
 

Run the Jewels

Make Detroit Great Again
Jun 22, 2006
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I don't see the Jets taking on that contract. How about Gator+ for Buff? I'd love to make a blockbuster move and acquire Buff and Evander Kane.. :yo:

The thing is we get stuck with the re-capture if he retires. So it might be the best of both worlds. I would seriously amnesty Mule this year since it fully moves him off the books. However if another team is willing to trade for him with the idea we eat the re-capture that's perfectly fine. Hell, we have enough cap space where we can eat part of the contract dollars.

I know Holland has no inclination to do anything with Mule because he once scored 30 goals but if I were him I'd be shopping Franzen and if I couldn't find a taker I'd buy him out. It is going to get ugly, I am not sure if you were following the Wings when Robert Lang was here but he was incredibly unpopular. Mule is going to be much worse than Lang.
 

NyquistIsMyGod*

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Buyin out Johan Franzen is crazy. Honestly, he can probably get you a first rounder..
 

TatarTangle

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I know Holland has no inclination to do anything with Mule because he once scored 30 goals but if I were him I'd be shopping Franzen and if I couldn't find a taker I'd buy him out. It is going to get ugly, I am not sure if you were following the Wings when Robert Lang was here but he was incredibly unpopular. Mule is going to be much worse than Lang.
At least Lang shot right-handed!

Buyin out Johan Franzen is crazy. Honestly, he can probably get you a first rounder..
If his contract was 4-5 years shorter, absolutely. But the guy is signed until he's 40. If people *****ed about Bertuzzi just wait until you have to watch Franzen play when he's Bertuzzi's age. One the bright side; we won't have to worry about Franzen breaking down too much since he doesn't play with any physicality whatsoever :laugh:
 

NyquistIsMyGod*

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At least Lang shot right-handed!


If his contract was 4-5 years shorter, absolutely. But the guy is signed until he's 40. If people *****ed about Bertuzzi just wait until you have to watch Franzen play when he's Bertuzzi's age. One the bright side; we won't have to worry about Franzen breaking down too much since he doesn't play with any physicality whatsoever :laugh:

Franzen frustrates me very much as well, but I was impressed with him this season. Since returning from injury early on, he played the best hockey since 09'. His hot streak was larger than previous years. Even when he slowed down, you could tell his effort level was still there.

He's 34 years old. He's still got a couple more productive seasons. Injury woes absolutely, but since his breakout in the 07/08 playoffs he's been above .72 PPG every single season. Throws up about .33 GPG each season as well.

With contracts the way that they are now, getting a top six forward for under 4M regardless of the length is enticing for many teams. 6 more seasons left. 3 more productive. 3 on LTIR/scratched. It's not crazy. I think numerous teams would offer their first rounder.

Buying him out to me personally has always sounded crazy. Talk crap all-day, but he had 41 points in 53 games this season.
 

TatarTangle

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Franzen frustrates me very much as well, but I was impressed with him this season. Since returning from injury early on, he played the best hockey since 09'. His hot streak was larger than previous years. Even when he slowed down, you could tell his effort level was still there.

He's 34 years old. He's still got a couple more productive seasons. Injury woes absolutely, but since his breakout in the 07/08 playoffs he's been above .72 PPG every single season. Throws up about .33 GPG each season as well.

With contracts the way that they are now, getting a top six forward for under 4M regardless of the length is enticing for many teams. 6 more seasons left. 3 more productive. 3 on LTIR/scratched. It's not crazy. I think numerous teams would offer their first rounder.

Buying him out to me personally has always sounded crazy. Talk crap all-day, but he had 41 points in 53 games this season.
You have to keep in mind for the longest time a lot of Franzen proponents shoved "Playoff Beast" down out throats ad nauseam when we would question his work ethic, compete level, etc.

"Oh, but wait, he turns it on in the playoffs. He's a beast in the playoffs"

They'd have a valid point if he actually did anything in the playoffs that wasn't five years ago. At this point I count on Franzen getting his points in the regular season (while going AWOL for some length of time) and probably not doing much scoring in the playoffs. It is what it is.
 

silkyjohnson50

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Franzen frustrates me very much as well, but I was impressed with him this season. Since returning from injury early on, he played the best hockey since 09'. His hot streak was larger than previous years. Even when he slowed down, you could tell his effort level was still there.

So we're now supposed to be excited for him because his hot streak lasted 21 games and that you seen effort afterwards?

Dan Cleary always showed effort as well.
 
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