Ken Holland End of Season Press Conference

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Teams aren't falling over themselves for Vanek on a long term contract. He came back, because, alas, he likes Detroit.

Who could blame him? Holland guaranteed him he’d be with the team all year. Expectations are low. And he doesn’t have to worry about playing hockey past April.

Guys like Green and Vanek don’t sign with a rebuilding team like Detroit because they really want to mentor young players.

 

[Go Wings]

About as naive as using a stat heavily influenced by the team to try to prove an individual player's worth. Even save % can be heavily influenced by the team and system as we've all seen with nearly any team Ken Hitchcock has coached. Bernier was a backup goalie on a lousy team whose numbers most often reflected the team in front of him. I don't know what you expect from a career journeyman signed for $3 million.

I expect more than 9 wins from out backup goaltender. If you think that is good enough then perhaps you should start cheering for edmonton or buffalo.

 

[Winger98]

I expect more than 9 wins from out backup goaltender. If you think that is good enough then perhaps you should start cheering for edmonton or buffalo.

Cam Ward was paid $3 million and won 16 games this season for Chicago. He also had a save percentage of .896. Was he better than Bernier who had a .904 sv% or was he just on a better team? You're arguing less about how bad Bernier was and more about how bad the Wings were if you're going to go after his number of wins.

Did I hope the Wings would catch lightening in a bottle or that Bernier would just sort of "click" at this point in his career and he would carry the wings? Of course. But with his track record, he is who he is and he lived up to that, imo. If we want our cheap, journeymen back-up goalies to look better, then there needs to be a better team put in front of them.

 

[Go Wings]

Cam Ward was paid $3 million and won 16 games this season for Chicago. He also had a save percentage of .896. Was he better than Bernier who had a .904 sv% or was he just on a better team? You're arguing less about how bad Bernier was and more about how bad the Wings were if you're going to go after his number of wins.

Did I hope the Wings would catch lightening in a bottle or that Bernier would just sort of "click" at this point in his career and he would carry the wings? Of course. But with his track record, he is who he is and he lived up to that, imo. If we want our cheap, journeymen back-up goalies to look better, then there needs to be a better team put in front of them.

You use Ward as an example yet this is half a dozen good examples of veteran backups. Halak, Lehner, Khodobin etc

 

[Winger98]

You use Ward as an example yet this is half a dozen good examples of veteran backups. Halak, Lehner, Khodobin etc

You mean guys backstopping far better teams than ours?

 

[Go Wings]

You mean guys backstopping far better teams than ours?

Nope I mean better backups. Ward hasnt been good in a long time.

 

[Snuggs]

Who could blame him? Holland guaranteed him he’d be with the team all year. Expectations are low. And he doesn’t have to worry about playing hockey past April.

Guys like Green and Vanek don’t sign with a rebuilding team like Detroit because they really want to mentor young players.

I said something like this at the Trade Deadline. Dude is a complete loser who's cash grabbing at this point. He's not helping any team win anything he's just here to play hockey and get that check. He'd like to win, it's a perk, but staying healthy, playing some minutes/points and getting a chance at another contract next season is all this guy is about right now. "Professional" for sure but not a winner. Not wanting to be traded to a potential playoff team when it was rumored there where callers is why I think he's a loser, he doesn't care about winning. Hockey; It's a pay-check and lifestyle to him.(An not a bad life at all) I don't hate him as a person, cause hell who knows how I'd feel but I hate him as a Red Wing fan and Vanek the player for not wanting to be moved, even it was just some stupid 6th round flier or young(er)-(ish) prospect.

 

[Oddbob]

I said something like this at the Trade Deadline. Dude is a complete loser who's cash grabbing at this point. He's not helping any team win anything he's just here to play hockey and get that check. He'd like to win, it's a perk, but staying healthy, playing some minutes/points and getting a chance at another contract next season is all this guy is about right now. "Professional" for sure but not a winner. Not wanting to be traded to a potential playoff team when it was rumored there where callers is why I think he's a loser, he doesn't care about winning. Hockey; It's a pay-check and lifestyle to him.(An not a bad life at all) I don't hate him as a person, cause hell who knows how I'd feel but I hate him as a Red Wing fan and Vanek the player for not wanting to be moved, even it was just some stupid 6th round flier or young(er)-(ish) prospect.

There is more to life than hockey. Guy isn't a loser, just cause he doesn't perhaps want to leave his family every single year. A small chance at a Cup might be nice, but when you are in the late stages of your career with a family, they can and should be priority #1.

 

[Oddbob]

Cam Ward was paid $3 million and won 16 games this season for Chicago. He also had a save percentage of .896. Was he better than Bernier who had a .904 sv% or was he just on a better team? You're arguing less about how bad Bernier was and more about how bad the Wings were if you're going to go after his number of wins.

Did I hope the Wings would catch lightening in a bottle or that Bernier would just sort of "click" at this point in his career and he would carry the wings? Of course. But with his track record, he is who he is and he lived up to that, imo. If we want our cheap, journeymen back-up goalies to look better, then there needs to be a better team put in front of them.

I do agree with you for the most part. Not now, but in the future, when cap is more important, it would be nice to not have to pay $3 million per year on a backup. Although with salaries the way they are, we aren't far from 3 million being minimum salary.

 

[Winger98]

I do agree with you for the most part. Not now, but in the future, when cap is more important, it would be nice to not have to pay $3 million per year on a backup. Although with salaries the way they are, we aren't far from 3 million being minimum salary.

It'd be really nice if the Wings could start getting that through the system. Even nicer if we could develop a nice starter.

 

[Snuggs]

There is more to life than hockey. Guy isn't a loser, just cause he doesn't perhaps want to leave his family every single year. A small chance at a Cup might be nice, but when you are in the late stages of your career with a family, they can and should be priority #1.

I'm not even disagreeing but it's loser mentality when you're playing competitive sports. Complacent loser stuff.

But I do understand the human side to professional sports and he's doing whatever is best for him, still not going to give him a pass though.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

There is more to life than hockey. Guy isn't a loser, just cause he doesn't perhaps want to leave his family every single year. A small chance at a Cup might be nice, but when you are in the late stages of your career with a family, they can and should be priority #1.

So he wants to be a professional millionaire NHL player but be thought of more as an adult rec player who happens to fly privately to the games?

I support the premise family life is more important... so do that and quit. That I respect

 

[Oddbob]

So he wants to be a professional millionaire NHL player but be thought of more as an adult rec player who happens to fly privately to the games?

I support the premise family life is more important... so do that and quit. That I respect

How does he support his family playing rec league? I know he probably has lots of money, but if you are good at something you enjoy and can get paid to do it, you are telling me you turn that down.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

How does he support his family playing rec league? I know he probably has lots of money, but if you are good at something you enjoy and can get paid to do it, you are telling me you turn that down.

That's the debate for the pro athlete, when to hang it up.

To me it's when you lose the passion.

Pretty sure vanek has made upwards of 50-60million from playing hockey so money isn't an issue.

 

[lomekian]

I suspect that if Vanek was getting offers from elite cup contenders with a salary remotely akin to what he has got in the last 3 years, he would jump a the chance, especially with a 2 year contract. But his best playoff year was 12 years ago, and he's (with some justification) got a rep as someone who doesn't bring his A game in the playoffs. He's not a particularly demonstrative personality, isn't the best skater, and has always been a bit one paced in his game, so short of changing his physiology and his game entirely, there isn't a great deal he can do about that.

Basically, he's taking the best offer he can get, based on a range of criteria, sporting/financial/family/comfort. He likes Detroit it seems, and he's been a decent if largely incidental FA for us. There should be no malice on either side - and people telling him to retire (unless they know him personally) are idiots. I'm not going to fulfil my greatest career ambitions, but I make a living doing something I love, giving happiness to others and helping my family. Should I jack it in because my professional ambitions are balanced with personal responsibilities and lack of opportunity?

Lets just agree that re-signing him should be somewhere near the bottom of the Red Wing's list of desirable outcomes. i.e better than nothing, but not by much. Likely, he's done here. He did ok, but on balance, meh - his two times here got us a draft pick that appears to have been not used wisely.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

There is more to life than hockey. Guy isn't a loser, just cause he doesn't perhaps want to leave his family every single year. A small chance at a Cup might be nice, but when you are in the late stages of your career with a family, they can and should be priority #1.

I totally get that. To be clear I don't fault Vanek for taking a deal here. And honestly there's a place in the league for veteran players like him and Green. Otherwise no one would go to rebuilding teams.

But as your young players improve and the rebuild starts taking shape, at some point the franchise needs to stop re-signing guys like that. I think that time came for Vanek and the Wings last off season, but it absolutely is the case this offseason.

Considering Vanek led the team in PP TOI, I think the Wings can try to get those 16 goals and 36 pts elsewhere.

 

[Winger98]

Vanek not wanting to be dealt doesn't make him a loser or indicate that he should retire. It means he didn't want to be traded for whatever reason. Maybe he didn't want to live out of a suitcase for the next several months. Maybe he doesn't like the coach or the GM of whatever team was trying to trade for him. Maybe there are some players on the other team he doesn't get along with or doesn't care for the city. Everyone makes career and life decisions that go beyond purely the work rewards, if they can. We're not really privy to any of these deliberations a player has to make. It is what it is.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

So the Holland press conference.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I suspect that if Vanek was getting offers from elite cup contenders with a salary remotely akin to what he has got in the last 3 years, he would jump a the chance, especially with a 2 year contract. But his best playoff year was 12 years ago, and he's (with some justification) got a rep as someone who doesn't bring his A game in the playoffs. He's not a particularly demonstrative personality, isn't the best skater, and has always been a bit one paced in his game, so short of changing his physiology and his game entirely, there isn't a great deal he can do about that.

Basically, he's taking the best offer he can get, based on a range of criteria, sporting/financial/family/comfort. He likes Detroit it seems, and he's been a decent if largely incidental FA for us. There should be no malice on either side - and people telling him to retire (unless they know him personally) are idiots. I'm not going to fulfil my greatest career ambitions, but I make a living doing something I love, giving happiness to others and helping my family. Should I jack it in because my professional ambitions are balanced with personal responsibilities and lack of opportunity?

Lets just agree that re-signing him should be somewhere near the bottom of the Red Wing's list of desirable outcomes. i.e better than nothing, but not by much. Likely, he's done here. He did ok, but on balance, meh - his two times here got us a draft pick that appears to have been not used wisely.

I would say the one caveat to this is when listening to the guys talk, he is a very respected voice in that room. Larkin in particular references Vanek and frankly not in the same way he company line references some of the other vets. There is a sincerity there when he talks about what Vanek or Kronwall in this regard, not nearly as much when he talks Frans and Abby in my opinion.

I know when you talk to players and former players, being a guy that has accomplished some of the things Vanek has resonates with the guys in a different way. His peak years in Buffalo and being a 40 goal scorer means when he talks those younger guys listen. He has been a good teammate in Detroit, he does seem willing to help the younger guys. He has had a very good career, I think this is it, but I have always appreciated his talent and have enjoyed him during both stops. He was still pretty good offensively in his stops with us but he wasn't supposed to be a big impact player. But I never felt cheated by him either and when you heard the young players rave about him at times I was happy to know he was making a difference.

I think it is time to turn the page and I thought Holland seemed to indicate that was likely in terms of the things he outlined.

I do think Kronwall picking up the puck is an interesting moment, I wish Holland was asked specifically about that. He gave his I hope he comes back speech, but I was surprised Kronner did that and it was the first moment in the last two months where I thought for a second he might be done. I know it gets ripped on a lot in here, but I think Kronwall and at times Vanek really have helped the process in terms of what AA, Larkin, Mantha, Bert, Hronek and Cholo are ultimately becoming.

Holland was pretty clear though, he even said he was looking at big level free agents or to continue with the young guys. I was encouraged by that approach. It is what I have been hoping for months would be the plan. He has to hold true to those words, but I think he will be able to.

 

[Shaman464]

I would say the one caveat to this is when listening to the guys talk, he is a very respected voice in that room. Larkin in particular references Vanek and frankly not in the same way he company line references some of the other vets. There is a sincerity there when he talks about what Vanek or Kronwall in this regard, not nearly as much when he talks Frans and Abby in my opinion.

I know when you talk to players and former players, being a guy that has accomplished some of the things Vanek has resonates with the guys in a different way. His peak years in Buffalo and being a 40 goal scorer means when he talks those younger guys listen. He has been a good teammate in Detroit, he does seem willing to help the younger guys. He has had a very good career, I think this is it, but I have always appreciated his talent and have enjoyed him during both stops. He was still pretty good offensively in his stops with us but he wasn't supposed to be a big impact player. But I never felt cheated by him either and when you heard the young players rave about him at times I was happy to know he was making a difference.

I think it is time to turn the page and I thought Holland seemed to indicate that was likely in terms of the things he outlined.

I do think Kronwall picking up the puck is an interesting moment, I wish Holland was asked specifically about that. He gave his I hope he comes back speech, but I was surprised Kronner did that and it was the first moment in the last two months where I thought for a second he might be done. I know it gets ripped on a lot in here, but I think Kronwall and at times Vanek really have helped the process in terms of what AA, Larkin, Mantha, Bert, Hronek and Cholo are ultimately becoming.

Holland was pretty clear though, he even said he was looking at big level free agents or to continue with the young guys. I was encouraged by that approach. It is what I have been hoping for months would be the plan. He has to hold true to those words, but I think he will be able to.

All we can go by is what we actually know. What we actually know is that no team has wanted to give him a long term contract. Teams don't want to trade high draft picks for him. And winning teams aren't going to even take him on a value contract for depth scoring. There have been on the record comments that he was bad in the locker room at points in his career. He's played for 7 teams since leaving Buffalo. And Only 2 of them have kept him longer than a full season. That just seems like there is some smoke to the idea that he doesn't mesh well with most teams.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

All we can go by is what we actually know. What we actually know is that no team has wanted to give him a long term contract. Teams don't want to trade high draft picks for him. And winning teams aren't going to even take him on a value contract for depth scoring. There have been on the record comments that he was bad in the locker room at points in his career. He's played for 7 teams since leaving Buffalo. And Only 2 of them have kept him longer than a full season. That just seems like there is some smoke to the idea that he doesn't mesh well with most teams.

He has been very popular at a lot of those stops, he did have some problems in Buffalo. Older Vanek seems to have matured. Our future captain likes him a great deal.

He has no doubt bounced around, he has a specialist skill set as he aged.

I don't think we should re-sign him, but the guy wasn't completely useless either.

 

[lomekian]

All we can go by is what we actually know. What we actually know is that no team has wanted to give him a long term contract. Teams don't want to trade high draft picks for him. And winning teams aren't going to even take him on a value contract for depth scoring. There have been on the record comments that he was bad in the locker room at points in his career. He's played for 7 teams since leaving Buffalo. And Only 2 of them have kept him longer than a full season. That just seems like there is some smoke to the idea that he doesn't mesh well with most teams.

We also know he keeps getting opportunities at good salaries. We know that the wings players and brass love him. We know his teammates spoke highly of him in Vancouver. We know he still scores at a 20 goal 40 point pace despite the NHL now being a speed game that limits his effectiveness compared to his earlier career. We know he has 3 young children, whom he has talked at length about his difficulty in spending a lot of time away from. We know he has captained an NHL team. We know he has made career decisions based on more than money, as evidenced by leaving the best line he played on at NYI, turning down a vast offer, because of them moving rinks.

We know all these things. Human's aren't simple, and are often contradictory, so just taking the facts that suit a particular stance and not those equally publicly available that suggest contradictions isn't a good look. This isn't aimed at you specifically, but all those who choose to take a negative reading off a guy who has participated at an elite level in an incredibly difficult sport for well over a decade, and cast doubts on his character because he has found certain environments less comfortable than others. Maybe he's just a slightly sensitive guy who doesn't like working with idiots? The teams where he was rumoured to have trouble haven't exactly been held up as exemplas of healthy environments...