Ken Holland End of Season Press Conference

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

In the middle.

In the middle of the draft? Ain't that a *****. Get out of here Thomas, it's the fourth round!

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

In the middle of the draft? Ain't that a *****. Get out of here Thomas, it's the fourth round!

Yeah dude, it totally is.

 

[Shaman464]

What in the hell do you consider the offseason then? Just FA? If you mean just FA and want to complain about his free agency periods, just say so.

The draft is part of the offseason. It's one of the biggest parts of the offseason that affects everything.

And la-de-****ing da. Vanek cost us a 5th round pick. I'll go cry at the shrine of Julius Vahatalo or Joren Von Pottelberghe. I swear some people with the complaining about missing assets. Sure, Thomas Vanek cost us a low draft pick that will have a 0.001% in being an NHL player and that's greater than zero. But we quite literally have 10 picks this year, 4 of which are in the top 60. At some point we need to cull down the quantity of picks for more quality.

Essentially trading Vanek would be like selling a stick of gum for $1 when we've just gotten our $2500 paycheck from work. Would trading him give us $2501 and is that more than $2500? Sure, but it's completely immaterial. Anything we could do with $2501 we can do with $2500... and it is sheer lunacy to say "oh man, you shoulda sold that gum" if you run into trouble and you're broke at the end of the month. The bigger issue would be what you spent the $2500 you already had on.

Calm down. You're taking a post that wasn't even to you way too personally.

1. I break the season down into 7 periods. Preseason (camp and preseason), Pre-trade deadline season (the season from puck drop until the end of January), TDL, Post-TDL, Playoffs, Draft (end of the playoffs until the draft is over), and Offseason (as soon as the draft ends, until camp). Each one is distinct from the rest.

2. If you use that dollar (Vanek) to buy a scratcher you could win 5,000 dollars. But without that dollar you never play. That fourth rounder is probably a dud, but never having it is guaranteed to be nothing

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Calm down. You're taking a post that wasn't even to you way too personally.

1. I break the season down into 7 periods. Preseason (camp and preseason), Pre-trade deadline season (the season from puck drop until the end of January), TDL, Post-TDL, Playoffs, Draft (end of the playoffs until the draft is over), and Offseason (as soon as the draft ends, until camp). Each one is distinct from the rest.

2. If you use that dollar (Vanek) to buy a scratcher you could win 5,000 dollars. But without that dollar you never play. That fourth rounder is probably a dud, but never having it is guaranteed to be nothing

In this analogy, you've already got 10 scratchers, several of them with much better odds. Adding an eleventh is completely immaterial. It is something to complain about not happening but not anything more than that.

It isn't some kind of huge missed opportunity and it certainly is nothing to continually complain about.

 

[Shaman464]

In this analogy, you've already got 10 scratchers, several of them with much better odds. Adding an eleventh is completely immaterial. It is something to complain about not happening but not anything more than that.

It isn't some kind of huge missed opportunity and it certainly is nothing to continually complain about.

If your strategy is to build from the draft, the more bites at the apple you have the better. Granted the bites in the 1st round are better than those in the 3rd-5th, but, the team is fundamentally better off with that draft pick after the TDL than it is with Vanek.

 

[tfong]

Alludes to Karlsson....signs Myers.

 

[lomekian]

Classic KH interview - talks at great length with rambling monologues, waves his hands about, keeps thumping the table and getting picked up on the mic, jokes badly at sycophant journalists, and manages to sound like a drunk idiot - but if you distil it down, its all pretty sensible and accurate stuff....and as usual, he's open about the direction of travel and gives very little away about specifics.

Some of the other interviews were interesting.

Kronwall remains an absolute legend, and actually has a very strong honest leadership aura. If he's willing to have another year at a cut price as a 6/7 d, I'd happily bring him back, as I thought he was good at times this year.

Larkin is a proper company man. defended Abby 3 or 4 times in an interview not even criticizing him!

Vanek looked and sounded quite emotional. He wants to come back, but knows the feeling might not be mutual. The only way we bring him back is if we flame out in FA, because he just doesn't have the wheels or motor for this team, despite his smarts in the offensive zone. And even then, he'd have to be willing to play for a smaller paycheck than any since his first contract.

 

[Gniwder]

I have no desire to watch Abby, Vanek, or Kronwall again, and I'm a Kronwall fan. It's time to move on.

As a fan, I want to see fast paced exciting games even if they don't win. Red WIngs front office better realize that before they lose even more fans during this rebuild.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I have no desire to watch Abby, Vanek, or Kronwall again, and I'm a Kronwall fan. It's time to move on.

As a fan, I want to see fast paced exciting games even if they don't win. Red WIngs front office better realize that before they lose even more fans during this rebuild.

Totally agree, Need to start bringing up more kids. Abby, Vanek and Kronwall had their time. It's the kids time to shine now.

 

[Hockeyfannnn91]

Totally agree, Need to start bringing up more kids. Abby, Vanek and Kronwall had their time. It's the kids time to shine now.

Where’s Abby going to go?lol I’d want him gone but we’re stuck at the least two more seasons , we buy him out now and we have a ca hit for 8 seasons , not going to happen

The last two seasons he makes 3 per , If we eat 50% maybe we’d get lucky to find a taker for his services at 1.5

 

[Invictus12]

This is my point. That shows he is a real leader if he doesn't care about the letter on the Jersey more than winning. Forget the love story he is from Michigan and all that. If a superstar wants to come here the captaincy should AT LEAST be up for debate. Look at Toronto , they have probably three players worthy of the captaincy and it's VACANT

With this in mind, if EK ends up here, perhaps its best to keep the C vacant and see who the players generally go for guidance.

 

[Gniwder]

Where’s Abby going to go?lol I’d want him gone but we’re stuck at the least two more seasons , we buy him out now and we have a ca hit for 8 seasons , not going to happen

The last two seasons he makes 3 per , If we eat 50% maybe we’d get lucky to find a taker for his services at 1.5

Press box or GR, I don't care. Wings will just have to eat his salary, a buyout will hamper the team when it's finally ready to compete. The team is simply better without him, the salary doesn't matter.

He's not an NHL player anymore. His heart isn't in the game and neither is his head. Who misses a wide open empty netter?

 

[Invictus12]

Alludes to Karlsson....signs Myers.

Karlsson will be like a kid in a candy store come FA. There's no way Holland can say with certainty that Karlsson will be a Red Wing. He'll go for it but the reality is that Karlsson has many options and the choice is his..

 

[tfong]

I can't see the wings as an enticing spot for him tbh u less it's just about the money. Were a fair bit aways from being a contender.

 

[Go Wings]

2017.
2018.


Name me the last offseason before then that he wasn't burdened with something like LTIR or dealing a 7.5M contract of no player for something.

In fact, Ken Holland has only really had two disastrous offseasons. (Probably should have been fired for them, because they were that bad) 2012 and 2016.

2018
Signed Bernier and Vanek nope that wasnt a good offseason.

2017
Signed Daley again nope.

He talked a lot about young players during the press conference. Where are they going to play when the defense for example has 5 veterans if they bring back Kronwall like he talked about.

As for those contracts you mention ALL that bad ones are his fault he signed all of them. They were all terrible at the time see Gator and Nielsen.

Holland needs to go alot of us are just tired of the same old shit every year.

 

[ricky0034]

What in the hell do you consider the offseason then? Just FA? If you mean just FA and want to complain about his free agency periods, just say so.

The draft is part of the offseason. It's one of the biggest parts of the offseason that affects everything.

And la-de-****ing da. Vanek cost us a 5th round pick. I'll go cry at the shrine of Julius Vahatalo or Joren Von Pottelberghe. I swear some people with the complaining about missing assets. Sure, Thomas Vanek cost us a low draft pick that will have a 0.001% in being an NHL player and that's greater than zero. But we quite literally have 10 picks this year, 4 of which are in the top 60. At some point we need to cull down the quantity of picks for more quality.

Essentially trading Vanek would be like selling a stick of gum for $1 when we've just gotten our $2500 paycheck from work. Would trading him give us $2501 and is that more than $2500? Sure, but it's completely immaterial. Anything we could do with $2501 we can do with $2500... and it is sheer lunacy to say "oh man, you shoulda sold that gum" if you run into trouble and you're broke at the end of the month. The bigger issue would be what you spent the $2500 you already had on.

i'd say the bigger deal than the draft pick is that Vanek caused the Wings to not have enough cap space to sign Larkin for 8 years

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

i'd say the bigger deal than the draft pick is that Vanek caused the Wings to not have enough cap space to sign Larkin for 8 years

That's not remotely what happened though. If Larkin wanted 8 years, the Wings would have made sure they had space for 8 years. Remember at the time of that contract, Larkin was just coming off a good year after a bad year. It wasn't a foregone conclusion he'd be close to PPG in 18-19.

And frankly, I'd rather Larkin 5x6.1 than 8x7.5-8 right now... and when he plays better and earns a bigger deal, you sign him to that. Especially if you subscribe to the Shaman opinion that Larkin is a guy who looks like a 1C because the Wings are wretched, but should actually be a 2C somewhere that can contend.

2018
Signed Bernier and Vanek nope that wasnt a good offseason.

2017
Signed Daley again nope.

He talked a lot about young players during the press conference. Where are they going to play when the defense for example has 5 veterans if they bring back Kronwall like he talked about.

As for those contracts you mention ALL that bad ones are his fault he signed all of them. They were all terrible at the time see Gator and Nielsen.

Holland needs to go alot of us are just tired of the same old **** every year.

No, a lot of you need to cool your jets. The Wings are in an upward trend and are building up. You want to fire Holland, point out 2012, point out 2016. The stuff he did in 17 and 18 was good.

 

[Invictus12]

That's not remotely what happened though. If Larkin wanted 8 years, the Wings would have made sure they had space for 8 years. Remember at the time of that contract, Larkin was just coming off a good year after a bad year. It wasn't a foregone conclusion he'd be close to PPG in 18-19.

And frankly, I'd rather Larkin 5x6.1 than 8x7.5-8 right now... and when he plays better and earns a bigger deal, you sign him to that. Especially if you subscribe to the Shaman opinion that Larkin is a guy who looks like a 1C because the Wings are wretched, but should actually be a 2C somewhere that can contend.



No, a lot of you need to cool your jets. The Wings are in an upward trend and are building up. You want to fire Holland, point out 2012, point out 2016. The stuff he did in 17 and 18 was good.

Interestingly enough, in 2016, Late 90s to 2010 didn't matter so 'logically' 2017 and 2018 won't matter.

 

[Winger98]

Press box or GR, I don't care. Wings will just have to eat his salary, a buyout will hamper the team when it's finally ready to compete. The team is simply better without him, the salary doesn't matter.

He's not an NHL player anymore. His heart isn't in the game and neither is his head. Who misses a wide open empty netter?

He didn't have a bad season the year before, though. He had an awful year, hope he takes the summer to regroup and come back ready to play. I think it would help if the wings could get deeper to where Gator (and Helm) weren't asked to play 14-15 minutes a night, too. Right now we have, what, five guys (Larkin, Mantha, AA, Bert, Nielsen) who are clearly 3rd line or above right now? A handful of maybes after that (Hirose, Zadina, Rasmussen), and a wildcard in Glendenning? And it's possible Zadina and Rasmussen will start next year in GR.

I know seeing that sort of contract on the fourth line or the pressbox won't make a lot of people happy, but it is what it is.

2018
Signed Bernier and Vanek nope that wasnt a good offseason.

2017
Signed Daley again nope.

He talked a lot about young players during the press conference. Where are they going to play when the defense for example has 5 veterans if they bring back Kronwall like he talked about.

As for those contracts you mention ALL that bad ones are his fault he signed all of them. They were all terrible at the time see Gator and Nielsen.

Holland needs to go alot of us are just tired of the same old **** every year.

None of those signings had a negative impact on the club, and it's not like the Wings can go a season without a backup goalie. Would it have been better to start the year with Sateri?

And I'm not sure where you are getting all of these blueline prospects to worry about. Hronek should make the team out of camp next year while Cholo had to be relegated to GR this year because he couldn't hack it in the NHL. McIsaac is unlikely to be ready and if we draft Byram or Broberg they will almost certainly not be ready either. And if the Wings go out and some how land Karlsson or whoever, it's not like the Wings wouldn't have time to figure out a way to clear some roster space, if it's needed.

 

[Go Wings]

He didn't have a bad season the year before, though. He had an awful year, hope he takes the summer to regroup and come back ready to play. I think it would help if the wings could get deeper to where Gator (and Helm) weren't asked to play 14-15 minutes a night, too. Right now we have, what, five guys (Larkin, Mantha, AA, Bert, Nielsen) who are clearly 3rd line or above right now? A handful of maybes after that (Hirose, Zadina, Rasmussen), and a wildcard in Glendenning? And it's possible Zadina and Rasmussen will start next year in GR.

I know seeing that sort of contract on the fourth line or the pressbox won't make a lot of people happy, but it is what it is.



None of those signings had a negative impact on the club, and it's not like the Wings can go a season without a backup goalie. Would it have been better to start the year with Sateri?

And I'm not sure where you are getting all of these blueline prospects to worry about. Hronek should make the team out of camp next year while Cholo had to be relegated to GR this year because he couldn't hack it in the NHL. McIsaac is unlikely to be ready and if we draft Byram or Broberg they will almost certainly not be ready either. And if the Wings go out and some how land Karlsson or whoever, it's not like the Wings wouldn't have time to figure out a way to clear some roster space, if it's needed.

You don't think Bernier's 9 wins in 35 games had a negative impact? You must live in sunshines and rainbow land if you are that neive.

 

[Winger98]

You don't think Bernier's 9 wins in 35 games had a negative impact? You must live in sunshines and rainbow land if you are that neive.

About as naive as using a stat heavily influenced by the team to try to prove an individual player's worth. Even save % can be heavily influenced by the team and system as we've all seen with nearly any team Ken Hitchcock has coached. Bernier was a backup goalie on a lousy team whose numbers most often reflected the team in front of him. I don't know what you expect from a career journeyman signed for $3 million.

 

[Henkka]

Same whining in here as last off-season, after Holland brought 6-7 young players in?

Unbelieveable low-level discussion.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Same whining in here as last off-season, after Holland brought 6-7 young players in?

Unbelieveable low-level discussion.

Yeah it’s getting old unlike our team.

 

[newfy]

Calm down. You're taking a post that wasn't even to you way too personally.

1. I break the season down into 7 periods. Preseason (camp and preseason), Pre-trade deadline season (the season from puck drop until the end of January), TDL, Post-TDL, Playoffs, Draft (end of the playoffs until the draft is over), and Offseason (as soon as the draft ends, until camp). Each one is distinct from the rest.

2. If you use that dollar (Vanek) to buy a scratcher you could win 5,000 dollars. But without that dollar you never play. That fourth rounder is probably a dud, but never having it is guaranteed to be nothing

Yeah except if you dont give Vanek that no trade clause he probably doent sign in Detroit and you have no shot to trade him at all. He probably had a very select few teams he would go to and Holland was hoping one of them would want him to get another "scratcher", your analogy doesnt work because youre assuming Vanek would just sign here regardless.

 

[Shaman464]

Yeah except if you dont give Vanek that no trade clause he probably doent sign in Detroit and you have no shot to trade him at all. He probably had a very select few teams he would go to and Holland was hoping one of them would want him to get another "scratcher", your analogy doesnt work because youre assuming Vanek would just sign here regardless.

Teams aren't falling over themselves for Vanek on a long term contract. He came back, because, alas, he likes Detroit.