Ken Holland End of Season Press Conference

[lomekian]

Gotta love online wings fans.

Last 3 years - "why doesn't KH say X...OMG he's an idiot"

This year- " KH may be saying X, but we all know he means Y. I mean how can you trust him..."

What do people want?
He's officially said we're in a rebuild, we will be prioritising gaining more futures for the next 18 months at least, we'll be looking to trade players for picks, we'll be looking to make roster value trades, we're not prioritising FA unless the coach doesn't think the kids will be ready next year (except in goal), that we want 4 (including Bert) new-ish kids on the roster in 18-19, and that while we want to make the playoffs, it's not a primary aim or expectation for the next two years.

This is literally what his critics have been begging/demanding him to say for the last 18-24-36 months and now he says it, almost half in this thread are complaining.

Says a lot more about them than it does about him.

Personally I thought it made sense to be the end of the road for him, but if KH has the stomach for a rebuild, there is no historical reason to suggest he can't do reasonably well at one.

 

[Shaman464]

Gotta love online wings fans.

Last 3 years - "why doesn't KH say X...OMG he's an idiot"

This year- " KH may be saying X, but we all know he means Y. I mean how can you trust him..."

What do people want?
He's officially said we're in a rebuild, we will be prioritising gaining more futures for the next 18 months at least, we'll be looking to trade players for picks, we'll be looking to make roster value trades, we're not prioritising FA unless the coach doesn't think the kids will be ready next year (except in goal), that we want 4 (including Bert) new-ish kids on the roster in 18-19, and that while we want to make the playoffs, it's not a primary aim or expectation for the next two years.

This is literally what his critics have been begging/demanding him to say for the last 18-24-36 months and now he says it, almost half in this thread are complaining.

Says a lot more about them than it does about him.

Personally I thought it made sense to be the end of the road for him, but if KH has the stomach for a rebuild, there is no historical reason to suggest he can't do reasonably well at one.

The issue is he used a lot of veiled language and a lot of half finished thoughts. It was a smattering of anything and everything he was thinking with only the most basic level of coherence at times. And apparently I am not the only one who heard him basically come out and say that kids will still need to compete with veterans for a spot and the winner will be 'who makes the team more competitive'. That almost certainly will be the vet in the event of a tie. And that was all I was looking for him to say 'we live and die by our youth' instead he lambasted young teams saying he wanted his vets. So while he did say some very interesting and positive things that he can see the writing on the wall, he still has some of his old problematic ideas knocking around in there.

In the end I was relatively happy with what he said. He said the goal is to compete for a cup, and that he knows there is a rebuild that needs to happen. I just hope he gets away from tie goes to the vet, and not wanting to trade from a place of strength, when that strength isn't 100% known. It sounds like that same old same old about AA and not wanting to trade him, not because he particularly likes him or sees him having a future, but because he doesn't want to lose a trade in retrospect.

 

[BinCookin]

I feel like people are twisting themselves into knots to find the negatives in this press conference.

He very clearly stated he wants 2-4 new young players on the team next year:
I.e. Svechnikov, Rasmussen, Hicketts. (maybe the top 3 pick this year).

He is basically admitting they are in a rebuild.
Should we put Cholowski in the NHL if he is not ready?
Should we put Hronek in the NHL if he is not ready?

btw toronto was one of those teams that assembled a roster of all 25 year olds like 6-7 years ago. (Burke). they failed pretty hard. I think this is what he is thinking of when he says you need some role models.

 

[Shaman464]

I feel like people are twisting themselves into knots to find the negatives in this press conference.

He very clearly stated he wants 2-4 new young players on the team next year:
I.e. Svechnikov, Rasmussen, Hicketts. (maybe the top 3 pick this year).

He is basically admitting they are in a rebuild.
Should we put Cholowski in the NHL if he is not ready?
Should we put Hronek in the NHL if he is not ready?

btw toronto was one of those teams that assembled a roster of all 25 year olds like 6-7 years ago. (Burke). they failed pretty hard. I think this is what he is thinking of when he says you need some role models.

Hronek should be getting NHL time for sure next year. The AHL only teaches a player so much and Holland admitted as much in the presser. As for Cholo he needs to be in the AHL for a year to see if he can make the transition to the pro game. But, long term project d-men aside, forwards tend to make the jump from the juniors/college to the NHL more easily. I'd like Ras to be penciled into the opening day roster, unless he is useless in the preseason, and if Detroit happens to draft a forward with their top pick (svech) he should be making the team.

 

[HIFE]

Gotta love online wings fans.

Last 3 years - "why doesn't KH say X...OMG he's an idiot"

This year- " KH may be saying X, but we all know he means Y. I mean how can you trust him..."

What do people want?
He's officially said we're in a rebuild, we will be prioritising gaining more futures for the next 18 months at least, we'll be looking to trade players for picks, we'll be looking to make roster value trades, we're not prioritising FA unless the coach doesn't think the kids will be ready next year (except in goal), that we want 4 (including Bert) new-ish kids on the roster in 18-19, and that while we want to make the playoffs, it's not a primary aim or expectation for the next two years.

This is literally what his critics have been begging/demanding him to say for the last 18-24-36 months and now he says it, almost half in this thread are complaining.

Says a lot more about them than it does about him.

Personally I thought it made sense to be the end of the road for him, but if KH has the stomach for a rebuild, there is no historical reason to suggest he can't do reasonably well at one.

I think the fans who detest Holland have either quit posting or accepted the inevitable. Looking at some of the comment sections online today it was pretty calm. I think around HF too there is a lighter mood than say last season. There were a lot of fiery debates a year ago- there was this sense of urgency to express our points of view and anger when people disagreed with each other. There seems to be more tolerance lately. Maybe the team being humbled through defeat (and finally admitting it to a degree) puts everybody on a level field of communication.

For those who are not the biggest supporters of Holland's recent past there is room for concern about the next 2 years. The Wings definitely shouldn't be deluded by two top 10 picks into believing the rebuild is over like Toronto with Phaneuf, Kessel, Kadri, etc. It's been pointed out that Buffalo rushed things (such as going after Kane) and are back at square one because of it. High picks are great but if other choices are made people can't get behind the fanbase will stay divided.

As was said in this thread I too am hoping to return to a state where we can wholeheartedly cheer for wins again, together.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Good comments. A lot of it rings true, especially his words about not starting the rebuild earlier.

 

[MintBerryCrunch]

Talk is cheap. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Dotter]

- The Wings might be in on the FA market, depending on the term? Then he says only as an upgrade, or that really they're thinking of drafts now and support later. Kind of confusing.

He implied at 11:30 that he won't be signing John Tavaras or Erik Karlsson. He said he "can't say names", but then essentially described them as players he won't sign. I think the kind of deals he wants to make is depth and a goalie. Possibly sign a forward or D that can step in after he trades off assets (or Trade) next TDL. Rinse and repeat. That's how he aquired a lot free draft picks already. If you want draft picks, then the system is proving to be a success.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Well it's better than last season's end of season press conference. Although it's not hard to top "if you expect cups, you are in the wrong league."

 

[newfy]

Seems like ever since Mr. I passed away and the wings missed playoffs, Holland has been doing things the right way. Acquiring picks like crazy and moved a roster player last year. Theres serious talk about Rasmussen making the team even though hes still junior eligible. It makes you wonder how much ownership was telling him to sign vets and keep the streak alive in the new arena. I personally dont want a total tear down like Edmonton or Buffalo did so if Holland does what he says I'll probably be happy.

I'm more concerned for him signing the young guys hes putting together now to contracts. I cant remember the last good one he signed. So if he rebuilds for 2 years like he has been trying to, and then a new GM comes in and takes over for re signing guys and adding a FA or two to put them over the top, thats fine with me. I just dont want Holland handing out 8 more NTCs

 

[Flowah]

Good comments. A lot of it rings true, especially his words about not starting the rebuild earlier.

I haven't watched it.

What did he say about not starting it earlier?

 

[Pavels Dog]

I haven't watched it.

What did he say about not starting it earlier?

Essentially that if you have a chance, you try to win and that not many teams start rebuilds after 100 point seasons. Also that if he started in 2015 the question would be why he didn't start in 2013, basically people always want the hard years to already be behind them.

 

[Heaton]

What do people want?

I like some of the things he said, but I still don't trust him to carry out those things. I'm glad he admitted the defense is old and that we need an impact defensman (hawt take there Kenny), but he's had 20 years of drafting defenseman that have failed to reach the 20 point plateau. I still don't have any faith that he'll be able to fix this team, but I'm glad he says he won't make the issues worse for the next GM.

 

[Flowah]

Essentially that if you have a chance, you try to win and that not many teams start rebuilds after 100 point seasons. Also that if he started in 2015 the question would be why he didn't start in 2013, basically people always want the hard years to already be behind them.

Eh.

It's not like no one was calling for the rebuild 3-4 years ago. It's not like we just decided this season "why didn't you start 3 years ago?"

Many of us have been hard on the rebuild train for years. That's just a deflection from him.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Good comments. A lot of it rings true, especially his words about not starting the rebuild earlier.

other than the fact that we would have more picks/prospects and cap space right now.

 

[Redder Winger]

He said a lot of good things. I hope he can make good on them.

He still thinks he was a cup contender in 15.
He's out to lunch.

He's a doddering old fool who can't complete a cogent sentence.

 

[Redder Winger]

I like some of the things he said, but I still don't trust him to carry out those things. I'm glad he admitted the defense is old and that we need an impact defensman (hawt take there Kenny), but he's had 20 years of drafting defenseman that have failed to reach the 20 point plateau. I still don't have any faith that he'll be able to fix this team, but I'm glad he says he won't make the issues worse for the next GM.

He signed Trevor Daley.
That's all you need to know.

 

[TheMule93]

He still thinks he was a cup contender in 15.
He's out to lunch.

He's a doddering old fool who can't complete a cogent sentence.

Well Babcock agreed with him in 15. Do you think Babcock is a moron too?

We had some of the best underlying stats in the league, took Tampa (who went to the finals) to game 7

 

[Redder Winger]

I haven't watched it.

What did he say about not starting it earlier?

He was in excuse mode.
"What's the difference?" he said. "Whether we start earlier or later, we still have to go through a rebuild."

He also said something about 100 point teams never rebuilding.

St. Louis, for example, had 99 points last year and 94 this year and they traded away Stastny and Shattenkirk.

This press conference again should put down the myth that the Ilitch family demanded the streak.
Ken Holland's own words clearly demonstrate what his thinking was.
It's very unimpressive thinking.

 

[Flowah]

We'll Babcock agreed with him in 15. Do you think Babcock is a moron too?
We had some of the best underlying stats in the league, took Tampa (who went to the finals) to game 7

I think if you legit thought we were a "contender" in 2015, yes, you're were wrong. Crazy? Even non-crazy people are ludicrously wrong once in a while. Or maybe cocky. Babcock thinks he makes them a contender with his superior coaching.

Either way, the reality was we weren't a contender.

He was in excuse mode.
"What's the difference?" he said. "Whether we start earlier or later, we still have to go through a rebuild."

Ohh! I can answer that Kenny!

The difference is we don't waste 5 years in mediocrity!

Look. I like what Kenny said. He's been more explicit about the path we need to take than he's ever been in my opinion. Great. He made decent TDL moves this year. Great. But he's spinning with these excuses. Yes, the rebuild should have started a few years ago. Yes we spun our wheels for a few years because we didn't. Yes, plenty of fans were saying that at the time, not just in hindsight.

 

[Redder Winger]

Gotta love online wings fans.

Last 3 years - "why doesn't KH say X...OMG he's an idiot"

This year- " KH may be saying X, but we all know he means Y. I mean how can you trust him..."

What do people want?
He's officially said we're in a rebuild, we will be prioritising gaining more futures for the next 18 months at least, we'll be looking to trade players for picks, we'll be looking to make roster value trades, we're not prioritising FA unless the coach doesn't think the kids will be ready next year (except in goal), that we want 4 (including Bert) new-ish kids on the roster in 18-19, and that while we want to make the playoffs, it's not a primary aim or expectation for the next two years.

This is literally what his critics have been begging/demanding him to say for the last 18-24-36 months and now he says it, almost half in this thread are complaining.

Says a lot more about them than it does about him.

Personally I thought it made sense to be the end of the road for him, but if KH has the stomach for a rebuild, there is no historical reason to suggest he can't do reasonably well at one.

Young defensemen in Grand Rapids:
Hronek.
Hicketts.
Russo.
Renouf.
Saarijarvi.

So many defense that you can't even get Saarijarvi in the games.

In 16-17, our Under 25 D played in 143 games.
This year, our Under 25 D played in 50 games.

So all this talk about having an old defense and needing to get younger?

It's empty bullshit until he proves otherwise.

All I see is an organization afraid to make the right move.
All I see is a complacent general manager trying to say the right things, even if his words suggest he might not actually believe them.

An important part of any kind of management position is understanding the trends. If you don't realize you're on the way to the bottom until you get there, you're not very good.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I think if you legit thought we were a "contender" in 2015, yes, you're were wrong. Crazy? Even non-crazy people are ludicrously wrong once in a while. Or maybe cocky. Babcock thinks he makes them a contender with his superior coaching.

Either way, the reality was we weren't a contender.

At the TDL we were a top team in the league with a cup winning veteran core, elite coaching and some good young talent (Nyquist, Tatar, Mrazek, Jurco, Sheahan, Dekeyser). We probably should have won against Tampa if not for about five fluke things going wrong. Saying we weren't a contender is all hindsight. No we weren't a top 2-3 contender, but we had as many points as Pittsburgh did this season and for most of the season we were tracking better. When even Babs thought we could go on a run it's ridiculous to sit around saying they were wrong, Results =! potential. If Tampa loses 1st round this year it still wouldn't mean they weren't a contender. Washington never getting past the 2nd round doesn't mean they were never a contender.

I get that 2015 messes with the imaginary story of a zero potential mediocre team for the last 5+ years, but it's still not possible to rewrite history to make it fit.

other than the fact that we would have more picks/prospects and cap space right now.

If we started even earlier we would have had even more prospects and picks even faster though.

 

[Flowah]

At the TDL we were a top team in the league with a cup winning veteran core, elite coaching and some good young talent (Nyquist, Tatar, Mrazek, Jurco, Sheahan, Dekeyser). We probably should have won against Tampa if not for about five fluke things going wrong. Saying we weren't a contender is all hindsight. No we weren't a top 2-3 contender, but we had as many points as Pittsburgh did this season and for most of the season we were tracking better. When even Babs thought we could go on a run it's ridiculous to sit around saying they were wrong

First, it's not hindsight. People were saying "rebuild" and "not a contender" since at least 2015. You can't just keep saying hindsight.

Second, Babs has been colossally wrong before. His opinion on Brendan Smith for example, a guy who can't even keep a job on a non-playoff team. You can't say "But even Babcock!" as some sort of 100% can't be wrong argument killer.

He was wrong about being a contender. We almost won in 2015 against Tampa because Mrazek went god mode, which isn't something you can rely on. He shut out Tampa in 2 of our wins. He let us win a game where we got outshot more than 3 to 1.

That's not a series where we kept it as even as the results would indicate. You're right. Results aren't potential. And the underlying numbers of that series showed we weren't on TB's level, despite the results of a 3-4 series.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

The roster was mediocre in 2015. That roster had zero potential. They were built to lose in the first round.

Lots of teams can look competent after only 40ish regular season games. Pointing to Detroit's record at the half way point doesn't prove anything.

The only revisionist history taking place here, is the belief that the 2015 roster had anything going for it. It was just more of the same, but one year older.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I like what he said but was being a little disingenuous regarding rebuilding sooner

I am not sure why rebuilding in 2015 solely means trading away datsyuk and Zetterberg.

I mean isn' he rebuilding now without doing those things?