Ken Baumgartner's 1998 Season

[GMR]

82 GP
0 goals
1 assist


How many other players have scored either 1 point or 0 points in a full season?

For what it's worth, he also didn't register a point in six playoff games. I understand that wasn't his role. I love enforcers but it's hard to fathom he only scored one point in 88 games played. With the secondary assist, you'd think the puck would bounce off someone's skate or stick for at least two points in 88 games.

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[Michael Farkas]

Just about a full season...Lee Fogolin played 68 games, registering 1 assist in 1954.

Not a full season, but still noteworthy...Tyler Wright played 61 scoreless games for the 1999 Penguins. Was only a -2.

 

[sr edler]

Well, he had a 17 game streak without a shot on goal. Might explain something.

You also forget to mention that his point was a primary assist. Perhaps he was was too proud to do secondary assists?

From game 49 and through 6 playoff games (which is 39 games, almost half a season), he had 7 shots on goal. And since he's Ken Baumgartner, what's the quality on those shots?

 

[GMR]

Just about a full season...Lee Fogolin played 68 games, registering 1 assist in 1954.

Not a full season, but still noteworthy...Tyler Wright played 61 scoreless games for the 1999 Penguins. Was only a -2.

I forgot about Tyler Wright.

Stu Grimson scored one point in the 1996 season, but that was in 56 games. Still, for a team that high scoring, you'd think he'd have more than one point during that span.

Well, he had a 17 game streak without a shot on goal. Might explain something.

You also forget to mention that his point was a primary assist. Perhaps he was was too proud to do secondary assists?

From game 49 and through 6 playoff games (which is 39 games, almost half a season), he had 7 shots on goal. And since he's Ken Baumgartner, what's the quality on those shots?

That team didn't have much in the way of toughness, so I can see how he'd play an entire season being the only real enforcer on the roster.

 

[Newsworthy]

He was not a goodplayer

 

[Gambitman]

I realize you are talking points but this reminds me of a story that Inside Hockey (loved this magazine when I was a kid) did in the late 80’s early 90’s on Allan Pedersen. If I remember correctly he went over 200 games without a goal. Hard to believe that is even possible.

 

[GMR]

I realize you are talking points but this reminds me of a story that Inside Hockey (loved this magazine when I was a kid) did in the late 80’s early 90’s on Allan Pedersen. If I remember correctly he went over 200 games without a goal. Hard to believe that is even possible.

Yep. Even for defensive defensemen, you'd think they would throw some puck at the net during that span that would go off someone's skate and into the net.

 

[blood gin]

Just about a full season...Lee Fogolin played 68 games, registering 1 assist in 1954.

Not a full season, but still noteworthy...Tyler Wright played 61 scoreless games for the 1999 Penguins. Was only a -2.

And 13 playoff games where he registered 0 goals and 0 assists. So 74 games in total with 0-0-0. Astounding for a non defenseman or fighter

The previous years he played 88 games counting playoffs and had 3 goals, 5 assists, 8 points

He scored a goal on 1/14/1998 against the Bruins.

He then went the next 119 games (into the 99-00) season registering just two assists.

He was a former 1st round pick

 

[GMR]

And 13 playoff games where he registered 0 goals and 0 assists. So 74 games in total with 0-0-0. Astounding for a non defenseman or fighter

The previous years he played 88 games counting playoffs and had 3 goals, 5 assists, 8 points

He scored a goal on 1/14/1998 against the Bruins.

He then went the next 119 games (into the 99-00) season registering just two assists.

He was a former 1st round pick

Tyler Wright had over 40 fights in the NHL, and logged a ton of PIM in juniors. Maybe the team that drafted him thought he'd score more and fight less. He wasn't a very big guy. As we all know, though, scoring in juniors doesn't necessarily transition into the NHL. Many NHL enforcers had good offensive careers in juniors.

Then again, Scott Parker was also a first round pick in 1998. Not sure how Colorado could have envisioned they were drafting anything besides a fighter who won't score. You can get those in later rounds.

 

[Michael Farkas]

The Avs had about 400 first round picks that year and thought he had some goal-scoring upside and was a long, long, long shot power forward...they had one to give...and they gave it...

 

[ShelbyZ]

Then again, Scott Parker was also a first round pick in 1998. Not sure how Colorado could have envisioned they were drafting anything besides a fighter who won't score. You can get those in later rounds.

The Avs had about 400 first round picks that year and thought he had some goal-scoring upside and was a long, long, long shot power forward...they had one to give...and they gave it...

IIRC, as MF alluded to, after they drafted Tanguay, Regehr and Skoula, the Avs drafted Parker because at his age (he was 20 and had re-entered the draft that year) and size, he could, at the very least, step into the NHL as an enforcer in the very near future.

Found this in an old article about their selections:

Exercising Its bounty of first-round draft picks, " the-Colorado Avalanche went far. .high-scoring center Alex Tanguay with its first choice in Saturday's NHL entry draft, then opted for defense and toughness.. , ' Colorado's subsequent choices in the Initial round were defensemen Martin Skoula and Robyn Regehr and right wing Scott Parker. "Toughness was a priority with these selections, and we were fortunate to be able to fill that void," said Dave Draper, Colorado's chief scout who is retiring after the draft but will remain with the team as a consultant. We know we have a lot of Skilled players at the NHL level In Joe Saklc and Peter Forsberg and some others," Avs general manager Pierre Lacroix said. ''When you have a chance to get some toughness, you have to go for It."

Parker ended up spending a couple months on the Avs roster the following season. Looking at that roster, they weren't kidding when they said they were looking for toughness...

Parker, Wade Belak, Jeff Odgers, Warren Rychel, Cam Russell, Dale Hunter and Chris Dingman were all on the Avs roster at certain points during that season.

 

[iamjs]

speaking of Belak...

I realize you are talking points but this reminds me of a story that Inside Hockey (loved this magazine when I was a kid) did in the late 80’s early 90’s on Allan Pedersen. If I remember correctly he went over 200 games without a goal. Hard to believe that is even possible.

Wade Belak didn't score a goal in his final 136 games, scoring his last goal on December 4, 2007. Prior to that, he had gone 143 games without a goal, scoring a goal on December 20, 2003.

If you use his next game as a starting point for his next goalless streak, he went from 12/23/2003 to 1/24/2011 (a span of 279 games and over six seasons and a lockout) scoring one goal.

 

[GMR]

IIRC, as MF alluded to, after they drafted Tanguay, Regehr and Skoula, the Avs drafted Parker because at his age (he was 20 and had re-entered the draft that year) and size, he could, at the very least, step into the NHL as an enforcer in the very near future.

Found this in an old article about their selections:



Parker ended up spending a couple months on the Avs roster the following season. Looking at that roster, they weren't kidding when they said they were looking for toughness...

Parker, Wade Belak, Jeff Odgers, Warren Rychel, Cam Russell, Dale Hunter and Chris Dingman were all on the Avs roster at certain points during that season.

It was an era where teams carried lots of tough guys. Plus, they were embarrassed about the Fight Night at the Joe. They definitely loaded up on their roster after that year.

 

[Hobnobs]

The Avs had about 400 first round picks that year and thought he had some goal-scoring upside and was a long, long, long shot power forward...they had one to give...and they gave it...

Its still a wasted pick. Parker werent going to get taken in the first round and Avs had the 1st pick in the second round as well the 38th overall. They couldve picked Gagne/Bäckman/Fischer/Gomez with that pick....

 

[Michael Farkas]

I'm good at drafting 20 years later too...

 

[Stephen]

The Avs had about 400 first round picks that year and thought he had some goal-scoring upside and was a long, long, long shot power forward...they had one to give...and they gave it...

There used to be a lot more stupidity in the management game... Avs could have used Simon Gagne...

 

[MS]

Boston was outscored 17-3 with Baumgartner on the ice that season.

It’s absolutely incredibly that teams spent 4 decades carrying ECHL level players like this just to fight thinking they somehow helped to win games.

 

[GMR]

Boston was outscored 17-3 with Baumgartner on the ice that season.

It’s absolutely incredibly that teams spent 4 decades carrying ECHL level players like this just to fight thinking they somehow helped to win games.

Enforcers definitely had a purpose. I wish there were more enforcers nowadays. You wouldn't see a guy like Tom Wilson lining up headshots left and right if he had to deal with someone who can handle him in a fight.

Hockey has become more boring without that element of the game.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Enforcers definitely had a purpose. I wish there were more enforcers nowadays. You wouldn't see a guy like Tom Wilson lining up headshots left and right if he had to deal with someone who can handle him in a fight.

Hockey has become more boring without that element of the game.

This is such a false theory. And it’s pushed all around this board and amongst fans throughout the league.

Bad hits have always occurred. There is just more focus on it now and it’s sensationalized. And no, I’m not trying to take away from how serious this league needs to take dirty play.

A guy like Wilson, who can both play and fight very well, would not be any different in decades past than he is now. If anything, it’s only because he was suspended for a very long length of time now that he seems to be chilling out with the antics...a suspension that most likely would have never occurred in the past.

Guys like Claude Lemieux and Ult Samuelson, neither of whom could really fight, were dirty and enjoyed successful careers in the NHL of the past. Those two players alone, and there are countless other examples, smash your theory.

Matt Cooke was taking cheap shots from the beginning to the end of his career. The “threat” of a fight doesn’t change anything.

Enforcers set a tone and they got guys to answer who wanted to try to set their own tone (usually other enforcers). But the idea that it eliminated, or even prevented, dirty play is incorrect.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

The threat of a fight also didnt stop Shane Churla from cheap shotting Bure.

And it sure as f*** didnt stop Bure from level the best elbow ever to Churlas in head. If anything Bures elbow put Churlas shenanigans to an end.

 

[Big Phil]

The threat of a fight also didnt stop Shane Churla from cheap shotting Bure.

And it sure as **** didnt stop Bure from level the best elbow ever to Churlas in head. If anything Bures elbow put Churlas shenanigans to an end.

And I say...............good. Let the players police themselves on the ice. Up until the last 10 years this has pretty much been what the majority thought. Either way, hockey is at a crisis with its lack of passion in 2019. Too much structure, not enough players getting mad and not enough rivalries.

As for Baumgartner, to be fair to him he always played in the playoffs. That is a real test if a player was needed. Andrew Peters never played a single playoff game in his career, despite his teams making the playoffs. But that season in 1998 is really bad. I liked the enforcers who contributed more. Tie Domi was a legitimate 4th liner on any team. Banged in 10 goals a year for you, 20 points. Stuck up for everyone, had no fear, played in 98 playoff games in his career and actually had 245 points. Domi would be on an NHL roster in 2019, don't kid yourself. He was a faster skater than Sundin.

In the 1970s with the Broad Street Bullies all of Schultz, Kelly, Dupont and Saleski contributed on the scoresheet as well as in the alley. Probert we know could play the game legitimately too. Somewhere along the lines these guys have gotten a bad rap, but if you could play legitimately on the 4th line today or back then you were very useful. Would you not want Bob Probert on your team today? I would.

 

[Big Phil]

I'd say Bill Muckalt's 2002 season is the worst I've seen and worse than Baumgartner's 1998. 70 games, 0 goals, 8 assists for a guy who wasn't known for his fists but was brought in probably for some 3rd line scoring depth. That season was just wretched and went against every other year of his career. If you are going to get 8 points in a season, at least drop the mitts with players.

 

[sr edler]

The notion that players always policed themselves in the past, in the sense that society didn't step in after something bad happened, is wildly inaccurate. Players were fined for dirty instances of play before the NHL even existed. Players were also arrested by the police in some instances. I think Art Ross was once. Alf Smith, another HHOFer, was arrested by Montreal police along with his brother Harry and Baldy Spittal after they had assaulted Hod Stuart, Cecil Blachford and Moose Johnson of the Montreal Wanderers in a game in 07–08 (ECAHA).

The Smiths (Alf, Harry, etc., not the band) were from a very religious family, by the way. I think a couple of their sisters were nuns in some kind of Catholic order. So much for pietas.

 

[sr edler]

Bure would have gotten 50 games for that elbow today.

But yeah, Odjick only dressed in 2 games in that series against Dallas, and not in game 2 when the elbow happened, but Vancouver still had Tim Hunter, Shawn Antoski and Brett Hull's former bodyguard Sergio Momesso on the team, and it still didn't stop Dallas from trying to hurt/injure Bure.

 

[GMR]

This is such a false theory. And it’s pushed all around this board and amongst fans throughout the league.

Bad hits have always occurred. There is just more focus on it now and it’s sensationalized. And no, I’m not trying to take away from how serious this league needs to take dirty play.

A guy like Wilson, who can both play and fight very well, would not be any different in decades past than he is now. If anything, it’s only because he was suspended for a very long length of time now that he seems to be chilling out with the antics...a suspension that most likely would have never occurred in the past.

Guys like Claude Lemieux and Ult Samuelson, neither of whom could really fight, were dirty and enjoyed successful careers in the NHL of the past. Those two players alone, and there are countless other examples, smash your theory.

Matt Cooke was taking cheap shots from the beginning to the end of his career. The “threat” of a fight doesn’t change anything.

Enforcers set a tone and they got guys to answer who wanted to try to set their own tone (usually other enforcers). But the idea that it eliminated, or even prevented, dirty play is incorrect.

Oh really? So all the GMs in the league back then were idiots for dressing players that didn't score, when they could have replaced them with non-fighters who could at least contribute offensively?