Keeping Hossa, Filppula and Hudler

[Oddbob]

While I fell it was.a mistake signing franzen first or ahead of(in the negotiating order) the better, more proven and more league wide recognized hossa, the bigger mistake was when gary bettman asked holland if he would like to buy franzen out free of charge scott free, kenny said no.

Hudler would still be a solid red wing

Filppula meh.

Where is this coming from? Also, since when, is the commissioner asking a GM randomly if they want out of a contract, with no penalties?

 

[vladdy16]

Outside of one season, Hudler has been exactly what he was in Detroit everywhere else. He had a great year last year playing with Monahan and Gaudreau, but he fell hard this year and that's probably where he'll stay. Great complimentary 40-50 point buy, but that's it. He has major shortcomings in his skating and size which make it difficult to play him on a top line on a team that is a cup contender.

Agree for the most part. Hartley played a big role in keeping Hudler viable as a top line option last year. Lots of clever changes. But 4 mil isn't exactly top line money.

Don't agree that this year is his avg. I think this year is a result of last years heightened clip. Fluctuating between 50-70 pts plus screens, possession and tertiary asissts is great secondary scoring.

Monahan and Gaudreau are great young players, but I don't think you can say that they didn't benefit from the 100's of games they played with an experienced playmaker in Hudler. That's the key thing that always made Hudler an easy call long term I thought. Maybe next year . Mantha Larkin Hudler could be the new Gaudreau Monahan Hudler(76pts).

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Where is this coming from? Also, since when, is the commissioner asking a GM randomly if they want out of a contract, with no penalties?

compliance buyouts

announced by gary bettman

two per team

designed to be used to rid oneself of the two biggest/worst contracts each team has

absolutely zero cap penalty for doing so

"get out of jail free card" one could say

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

meanwhile the team would have certainly missed the Playoffs in 2012-13 and 2013-14 if he had been bought out

thats a bit of a strech

it also assumes the wings would not have used his cap money on anyone else and that player would have scored zero points

 

[HockeyinHD]

Well Fil isn't having the best of years and Hudler just got traded... they are good players but insanely inconsistent and pretty much what we have in Tats and Gus, but with less goal scoring ability.

Hossa is Hossa

Fil had a monster first year in TB to make everyone think it was a mistake to let him walk... and then he's gone back to being totally Filppula the past 2 years. 19 goals, 57 assists, -20 in 152 games.

Hossa's declined dramatically the past two years and has been a playoff disappointment for far longer. He scored 18 playoff goals in the 08 and 09 playoffs combined, 43 games. In every playoff year since, 96 games, he has... 18 playoff goals.

If not for the concussion issue, Franzen would have been the better signing. Que sa'ra.

I think we're about a year away from everyone here turning on Nyquist and calling him a massive disappointment. Maybe a little less, if he zeroes out in the playoffs (again). That would be a shame, because he's a 20 goal guy and a team needs those.

 

[Vladdy84]

Fil had a monster first year in TB to make everyone think it was a mistake to let him walk... and then he's gone back to being totally Filppula the past 2 years. 19 goals, 57 assists, -20 in 152 games.

Hossa's declined dramatically the past two years and has been a playoff disappointment for far longer. He scored 18 playoff goals in the 08 and 09 playoffs combined, 43 games. In every playoff year since, 96 games, he has... 18 playoff goals.

If not for the concussion issue, Franzen would have been the better signing. Que sa'ra.

I think we're about a year away from everyone here turning on Nyquist and calling him a massive disappointment. Maybe a little less, if he zeroes out in the playoffs (again). That would be a shame, because he's a 20 goal guy and a team needs those.

The Wings DIDN'T let Flip walk. He wanted to leave.

I Gus and Tats are having lousy years. They may not both be here moving forward. But they are both players that could net 25-30 goals a year for the next 4 - 5 years IMO.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Said it in the years leading up to it, and the years after. Mishandling Hudler, and letting him walk for nothing was the most serious leak the red wings pipeline has taken in the cap era, and that glaring hole between 40,13,55 and the 18yo-25yo crowd is the result.

Except a) Hudler wasn't going to be that guy anyway, and b) they had plenty of time for any of a bunch of other forwards to develop into that role. All Hudler was ever going to be in Detroit was a 3rd line, #2 pp offensive forward. Not valueless, but not something you want to run around locking up long term if you don't expressly have to.

Filppula was a big loss too.

Over the past two years he has a whopping 13 more ES points than than Luke Glendenning. Get the bleep out of here with that nonsense.

The guys that were brought in/kept for Babcock's system, Bertuzzi, Samuelsson, Weiss, Eaves, Cleary etc had no where near the value to the organization that 26 and 51 did.

Bertuzzi was a great bargain (paid ~11 mil for a 5 year Detroit career), Sammy part 2 and Weiss were failures, Eaves was never supposed to be relevant in the first place, and Cleary was a wash.

 

[Frk It]

Nyquist is better than Filppula. Tatar is better than Hudler (better scorer, younger). Hossa is 37 years old.

Odd time to bring this up, I'd say.

 

[HockeyinHD]

The Wings DIDN'T let Flip walk. He wanted to leave.

Tomayto, tomahto.

I Gus and Tats are having lousy years.

Tatar is having the same year he did last year, his usage is just down and the PP is a nightmare.

Nyquist isn't having a terrible year, he's having right around the kind of year he should be having. He's a little low, production-wise, but a lot of that is happening for the same reason it's happening to Tatar. Usage and a bad PP.

Now, usage is tied to level of play (or at least level of play as perceived by coaches) so it's not like either guy is blameless for playing less, and the PP struggles aren't exactly entirely out of their control either. Still.

They may not both be here moving forward. But they are both players that could net 25-30 goals a year for the next 4 - 5 years IMO.

The question is whether they can do that by playing a normal role, or if they can only do that if they get thrown into an elevated role they aren't a fit for, like playing 20 minutes a night and 4 on the PP.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Nyquist is better than Filppula. Tatar is better than Hudler (better scorer, younger). Hossa is 37 years old.

Odd time to bring this up, I'd say.

I'm bracing myself for a Larry Murphy thread.

 

[Heaton]

Agree for the most part. Hartley played a big role in keeping Hudler viable as a top line option last year. Lots of clever changes. But 4 mil isn't exactly top line money.

Don't agree that this year is his avg. I think this year is a result of last years heightened clip. Fluctuating between 50-70 pts plus screens, possession and tertiary asissts is great secondary scoring.

Monahan and Gaudreau are great young players, but I don't think you can say that they didn't benefit from the 100's of games they played with an experienced playmaker in Hudler. That's the key thing that always made Hudler an easy call long term I thought. Maybe next year . Mantha Larkin Hudler could be the new Gaudreau Monahan Hudler(76pts).

Monahan and Gaudreau probably benefit from playing with any skilled player, but they've shown this year that Hudler wasn't the catalyst for their offensive abilities.

 

[ricky0034]

thats a bit of a strech

it also assumes the wings would not have used his cap money on anyone else and that player would have scored zero points

how so? in 2012-13 Franzen was 3rd on the team in scoring behind only Datsyuk and Zetterberg and the Wings finished the year only 1 point ahead of 9th

in 2013-14 Franzen was 5th on the team in scoring and only 8 points behind 1st with 41 points in 54 games and the Wings finished the year only 3 points ahead of 9th

and what cap space? you mean his <4 million?

yeah....that doesn't buy much


and regardless of the past still not seeing how he's even doing any actual harm right now

 

[BinCookin]

Nostalgia thread. These choices are more than 4 years old.

To be honest I am ok with having NONE of them on our team. And for as much as everyone over the last 2-3 years wanted Hossa. Just ask a Hawks fan right now what they would do to "get rid of him". As in, if you don't think we would be complaining about him... you dont know HFBoards well enough (*Complain about everything!!)