Keep the core together?

[thusk]

We don't need to trade any of them but they need to help the core

Ok they don't always play with full intensity but can be really frustrating run for the puck every time you're in because your D can't defend well and #6 on giveaway. It's a bad mix to win.

Muzzin playing with an 28 years old rookie in Justin Holl against top line. I really like Justin Holl but he's 5 or 6th.
Rielly is good but not strong and need help

Rielly/???
Muzzin/ ???
Sandin/Holl

find those 2 player will be the chalenge this summer

an idea that could be good fit

Jonas Brodin(with extension) vs Kasperi Kapanen and maybe pick

no he's not RHD but he's exactly what Rielly need, strong young defensive D

2nd move : i try to sign Dylan Demelo

Rielly/Brodin
Muzzin/Demelo
Sandin/Holl

 

[34]

Run him out of town?

Should everything be out of spite?

Out of spite? No.

Due to the fact that Andersen is a barely a NHL back up. That is why. He is brutal.

 

[seanlinden]

The truth is we are in deep deep sh*t next year too. We got 77M tied up in 15 players. Expect CAP to go up by 1.5M to 83M so we will have 6M to sign 8 guys for 23 man roster. So bottom end guys again at league minimum.

Dermy at 2M and Mik at 1.5M on bridges means 2.5M left for 6 guys which is impossible. So likely a 20 man roster with 3 more guys at 700K each with $0.4M left in space.

We are in CAP hell in my books next year.

It's 17 players -- capfriendly is not counting Rielly & Johnsson as they are presently on LTIR.

That being said, we aren't in THAT bad a position from a cap perspective.

They need 2 defencemen -- a top guy for Rielly, and a 4/5 guy for Sandin. They've got the assets and cap dollars in Kerfoot, Johnsson, Kapanen and Dermott to make that happen.

Another way to look at it:
The cap will increase by say, $2.5m. That covers Muzzin ($1.6m) and Campbell ($950k). Engvall got $300k, let's say Mikheyev gets the same, so you're looking at a $600k deficit to make up.

From there, you have $7.25m in 2 defencemen (Barrie & Ceci) coming off the books -- $6.6m after the deficit on Engvall/Mikheyev. Split that between a guy at $5.5m and a guy at $1m, or split that between a guy at $4m (Manson/Pesce) and a guy at at $2.5m (experienced vet?)

If it's not quite enough, move a guy like Andreas Johnsson (assuming however you acquire this top defenceman doesn't utilize anyone else off the roster), and spend $1.5m replacing him with somebody that's a little worse.... that's another $1.9m to spend on the D.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

We don't need to trade any of them but they need to help the core

Ok they don't always play with full intensity but can be really frustrating run for the puck every time you're in because your D can't defend well and #6 on giveaway. It's a bad mix to win.

Muzzin playing with an 28 years old rookie in Justin Holl against top line. I really like Justin Holl but he's 5 or 6th.
Rielly is good but not strong and need help

Rielly/???
Muzzin/ ???
Sandin/Holl

find those 2 player will be the chalenge this summer

an idea that could be good fit

Jonas Brodin(with extension) vs Kasperi Kapanen and maybe pick

no he's not RHD but he's exactly what Rielly need, strong young defensive D

2nd move : i try to sign Dylan Demelo

Rielly/Brodin
Muzzin/Demelo
Sandin/Holl

Your thinking is solid. But there is no $$$ on CAP to execute it. Do the math. Next year we will be the kiddie core.

 

[34]

IF I could start a team fresh for next season:

LW / Matthews / RW
Hyman / C / RW
Mikheyev / C / Kapanen
Engvall/C/RW

Rielly / RD
Muzzin / RD
Sandin / RD

Starting Goalie
Campbell

Leafs would have a TON of assets in the players left out of this lineup that they could easily trade to fill out the rest with a much more complete and competitive team.

Yeah this Maple Leafs team is a failed rebuild. It needs to be stripped down to the bones and re done. Dubas failed.

 

[All Mod Cons]

At some point they've gotta get some dmen. And I'm not talking the styles of Sandin or Liljegren either. They can keep ignoring it if they want, but don't look all puzzled during a press conference

 

[JT AM da real deal]

It's 17 players -- capfriendly is not counting Rielly & Johnsson as they are presently on LTIR.

That being said, we aren't in THAT bad a position from a cap perspective.

They need 2 defencemen -- a top guy for Rielly, and a 4/5 guy for Sandin. They've got the assets and cap dollars in Kerfoot, Johnsson, Kapanen and Dermott to make that happen.

Another way to look at it:
The cap will increase by say, $2.5m. That covers Muzzin ($1.6m) and Campbell ($950k). Engvall got $300k, let's say Mikheyev gets the same, so you're looking at a $600k deficit to make up.

From there, you have $7.25m in 2 defencemen (Barrie & Ceci) coming off the books -- $6.6m after the deficit on Engvall/Mikheyev. Split that between a guy at $5.5m and a guy at $1m, or split that between a guy at $4m (Manson/Pesce) and a guy at at $2.5m (experienced vet?)

If it's not quite enough, move a guy like Andreas Johnsson (assuming however you acquire this top defenceman doesn't utilize anyone else off the roster), and spend $1.5m replacing him with somebody that's a little worse.... that's another $1.9m to spend on the D.

The CAP will only go up past 83M if the league waives some of the CBA rules on the CAP so the player escrow holdback does not exceed 10%. It is possible that the league will do this to help negotiations on next CBA. The players are steadfast to keep the escrow holdback at no greater than 10% after true up. Guys are really ticked when they contract 5.6M really they are only making 5M. and it needs to drop going forward next 2 years.

 

[Trapper]

At some point they've gotta get some dmen. And I'm not talking the styles of Sandin or Liljegren either. They can keep ignoring it if they want, but don't look all puzzled during a press conference

Rosen and Malgin types are fine for whatever little side depth you are going for, but this team seriously needs some straight away north/south forecheck grind skill going on this team. Enough of the guys who look like they are pulling a parachute cord on the backcheck or waving a mosquito. Aggressive in your face skill.

 

[leburn98]

The thing is it's difficult to determine where this team truly is at when your starting goaltender has been dreadful for the last two months. I've been a Freddy Andersen supporter from Day 1, but a lot of the issues with the Leafs revolves around him. I don't care how good of a team you have, a goaltender with a .886 SV% since January is going to sink teams. It's actually a miracle the Leafs are where they are.

For those interested, since January 1st.

Bottom 10 (out of 43 goaltenders with over 10+ games started):
Rittich (CGY): .895 [6-5]
*Halak (BOS): .895 [7-3]
*Elliott (PHI): .894 [6-2]
Gibson (ANA): .893 [5-9]
Fleury (VGK): .893 [9-6]
Anderson (OTT): .893 [3-6]
*Domingue (NJD/VAN): .891 [2-4]
Howard (DET): .890 [0-9]
Andersen (TOR): .886 [5-5]
Holtby (WAS): .885 [5-6]

* Backup goaltender

This doesn't absolve the Leafs of their issues, but getting competent goaltending would be a start.

 

[thusk]

Yeah this Maple Leafs team is a failed rebuild. It needs to be stripped down to the bones and re done. Dubas failed.

Yep he was trying something this summer with barrie and Ceci, didn't work.

Dubas did a mistake and i'm fine with it. Right now dubas have to learn about his mistake and do the right thing

 

[thusk]

Your thinking is solid. But there is no $$$ on CAP to execute it. Do the math. Next year we will be the kiddie core.

Kapanen 3,2M and if you need more, you just trade kerfoot or johnsson for pick and prospect or both of them. A top 4 Dman still more important than 3rd line player

 

[Trapper]

If you want to keep the core then meet me in the middle.
Get me some blue collar, hard working guys with pushback around them. They can skate, forecheck and play 200 feet.
That way people can cheer for the times the core cares, and I can cheer the rest of the time.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Mirtle was right - Freddie is part of the core and a big part of this team's problems this year

 

[robertmac43]

I don't think it will be possible to keep them all . Andersen will command a lot of money when his deal is up and based off of how big other goalie contracts have gone, I would rather go a cheaper route.

 

[robertmac43]

It also does not make sense to get rid of any of the big 4 yet. Blowing it up this fast would be irresponsible, especially considering the unfortunate circumstances that have surrounded this season. Coach that had lost the room at the helm for 2 months and a lot of big big injuries throughout the year have not helped. I would love to see this team with Keefe and a real goalie tandem play an 82 game season.

 

[Dekes For Days]

And none of those players had a cap hit over 6M.

That's not true, and it was also under a vastly different cap.

 

[AvroArrow]

If the cap goes up by 5M sure. But the contracts are killing us. Tavares is showing hes not worth 11m. If they lived up to their contracts we'd be fine, but they're not. For what they're making i expect Mcdavid level of production. The right move would've been to not sign Tavares for 11m OR to move Tavares/Kadri for a real RHD but that's over and done with. Going forward the only fix is to get the players to start playing up to their contracts or move one of the 11M contracts for cap relief and help on D. We cant afford to bring in any depth guys or quality d men cause so much is tied up in our forward group. Has more to do with their cap hit than anything else. I would rather split the 11M on JTs contract between a quality 2c and D man, than spend it on him.

 

[BlueForever75]

If there is one player that needs to go from the core its Mitch Marner. Skilled he is, but he is the asset that will plug 2 holes for you on the team immediately at the same cost of himself.

 

[seanlinden]

The CAP will only go up past 83M if the league waives some of the CBA rules on the CAP so the player escrow holdback does not exceed 10%. It is possible that the league will do this to help negotiations on next CBA. The players are steadfast to keep the escrow holdback at no greater than 10% after true up. Guys are really ticked when they contract 5.6M really they are only making 5M. and it needs to drop going forward next 2 years.

The cap increase in 19-20 was was one of the smallest increases since the cap came into effect. Since the last lockout, we have never seen a 2 year period where the cap only increased by $3.5m. The previous smallest increase was $4m, going from $69m in 14-15, to $73m in 16-17.

Furthermore, in 2019, the final 4 included 2 small markets in St. Louis and Carolina. Pittsburgh, Washington, Tampa Bay, Vegas, Toronto and Calgary were all eliminated in the 1st round.

 

[34]

Yep he was trying something this summer with barrie and Ceci, didn't work.

Dubas did a mistake and i'm fine with it. Right now dubas have to learn about his mistake and do the right thing

Fully Agree, but the major issue is that Dubas acknowledges his mistakes and learns from them. He can absolutely not move forward with Andersen as the starting goalie next season. The Barrie experiment was an epic fail and Ceci is just mediocre.

I also believe that Tavares needs to be traded. That is $11M in Cap bring wasted. That money could be used for a few solid D men.

Dubas needs to swallow his pride and fix his mistakes. Put his ego aside and do what it best for the Team and the city of Toronto. The current status is a f***ing disaster.

 

[Albi34]

The core players arent the problem with this team, they are the ones that have carried the team so far. The problem has been mostly terrible goaltending and some shady defense. If the leafs dont make it past 1 round again? Okay maybe one of marner or jt gets traded for a 1D. But honestly...the secondary scoring has been non existent from bottom 6(mostly) and the defense. Thinking trading any of the big 4 will make the team better is a knee jerk reaction. Unless youre getting a PPG+ player back whats the point? A healthy Rielly and couple changes to the right D would go a long way.

 

[Fogelhund]

If there is one player that needs to go from the core its Mitch Marner. Skilled he is, but he is the asset that will plug 2 holes for you on the team immediately at the same cost of himself.

If you can get full value from him, the return should be very good. He's the most overpaid on the roster, moving him would help us.. .but then, would we get full value with that contract? Hard to say.

It would be a dream, to sign someone like Pietrangelo as a UFA, to say $9 million, and then use a Marner, to shore up the futures... a very solid top prospect/or top young guy on a ELC, a first, + for example.

I'd still go after Georgiev in the offseason.. I think he can be a starter, and good replacement for Andersen, when he needs a new contract... Andy just hasn't been that great either.

 

[BlueForever75]

If you can get full value from him, the return should be very good. He's the most overpaid on the roster, moving him would help us.. .but then, would we get full value with that contract? Hard to say.

It would be a dream, to sign someone like Pietrangelo as a UFA, to say $9 million, and then use a Marner, to shore up the futures... a very solid top prospect/or top young guy on a ELC, a first, + for example.

I'd still go after Georgiev in the offseason.. I think he can be a starter, and good replacement for Andersen, when he needs a new contract... Andy just hasn't been that great either.

Marner and Dermott for Parayko and Schenn. Pietrangelo resigns in St Louis allowing this deal to happen.

Then trade Johnsson, Holl, Bracco to EDM for Larsson and Puljvi

Your D is fixed.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The cap increase in 19-20 was was one of the smallest increases since the cap came into effect. Since the last lockout, we have never seen a 2 year period where the cap only increased by $3.5m. The previous smallest increase was $4m, going from $69m in 14-15, to $73m in 16-17.

Furthermore, in 2019, the final 4 included 2 small markets in St. Louis and Carolina. Pittsburgh, Washington, Tampa Bay, Vegas, Toronto and Calgary were all eliminated in the 1st round.

None of that has any influence. The players voted and it was decided last year to change the negotiation strategy around to focus on reducing the escrow holdback to 10% or below after trueup. Nothing has changed. At 83M the numbers for escrow holdback again around 10% next year. Anything over 83M in CAP and the escrow increases again. The players will not approve it. So we are going to be up against it for next 2 NHL seasons on the CAP. In 3rd year the BIG US TV deal kicks in which everyone tells me will drive CAP by UP about 15M-20M per. Again I am from Missouri and I will wait to see it.

 

[thusk]

Fully Agree, but the major issue is that Dubas acknowledges his mistakes and learns from them. He can absolutely not move forward with Andersen as the starting goalie next season. The Barrie experiment was an epic fail and Ceci is just mediocre.

I also believe that Tavares needs to be traded. That is $11M in Cap bring wasted. That money could be used for a few solid D men.

Dubas needs to swallow his pride and fix his mistakes. Put his ego aside and do what it best for the Team and the city of Toronto. The current status is a f*cking disaster.

Andersen save the ass of the leafs 3 of last 4 seasons, yep he don't have his best season but he's absolutly not the problem in Toronto. Put Vasilevskiy in front of leafs D and result will not be better for a lot. Andersen need help and now he's unable to play as an mvp caliber, he's the problem. So just stop talk about Andersen is bad, he's still our best best player 3 of 4 last season.

I don't think leafs need to trade JT too. Our 3 rd line cost around10 M Johnsson/kerfoot/kapanen and i don't how better this line is vs a Koshkov/engvall/bracco line a 3M line

Ok mikheyev have to sign maybe around 3M but you still saving 4,5 of ceci

Get an under to radar guy like Demelo around 3 to 3,5M, Brodin around 4M.