Post-Game Talk: Keep shooting on the net until tomorrow nothing will happen... (Habs 1-3 Sharks)

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Kriss E

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May 3, 2007
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Skinner was on the last year.

Think back to when we signed Erik Cole. During his first year he was on pace for and scored 35 goals but we sucked. That deadline would have been the perfect time to trade him, and he would have understood, because we were going nowhere. We should have gotten a haul similar to what we got for Pacioretty for him (albeit less, but still a good haul). Instead we hung on to him, he started to fade in his 2nd season, and we got Ryder and a 3rd for him, if I'm not mistaken. Anyways the point is things change fast. 4 years at 4 million AAV is not a big risk for Perron. I like the upside more than the risk. Duclair wanted to come here. And we could have outbid for Skinner and either added the 26 year old to the core or flipped him at the deadline for a king's ransom or that top 4 dman we've been looking to add. And I said this during the summer...

You're not making much sense man.
If we had Perron and Skinner and Duclair, well the Habs would be better, they wouldn't sign/trade for those guys and think ''let's tank now!''. They would be in the POs, not sell at the deadline. Even if a bubble team, they'd make a push for it.
So we wouldn't sell. But we would also not be good enough to contend. So right back in the ''good but not good enough'' perpetual mode we seem to be in. Enough of this shit already. It ain't gonna work.
 

26Mats

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Jun 23, 2018
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You're not making much sense man.
If we had Perron and Skinner and Duclair, well the Habs would be better, they wouldn't sign/trade for those guys and think ''let's tank now!''. They would be in the POs, not sell at the deadline. Even if a bubble team, they'd make a push for it.
So we wouldn't sell. But we would also not be good enough to contend. So right back in the ''good but not good enough'' perpetual mode we seem to be in. Enough of this **** already. It ain't gonna work.

You're half right. Bergevin is not going to go all out and tank. I was in favor of trading Price, Weber, Petry, Pacioretty, Byron, and Shaw last deadline, but that's just not going to happen with this management group. It's a waste of time to even discuss it. Bergevin will be trying to make the team better. So given that's what we'll be doing, it would be nice if he could at least do it right.

Best case scenario is those players shine, but we're still clearly not going to be a playoff team and become sellers at the deadline. A player like Skinner for example may want way too much money and so Bergevin smartens up and decides he shouldn't just lose him for nothing like he did Radulov. There are ways things get done when you have the pieces to make things happen.
 

Kriss E

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May 3, 2007
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You're half right. Bergevin is not going to go all out and tank. I was in favor of trading Price, Weber, Petry, Pacioretty, Byron, and Shaw last deadline, but that's just not going to happen with this management group. It's a waste of time to even discuss it. Bergevin will be trying to make the team better. So given that's what we'll be doing, it would be nice if he could at least do it right.

Best case scenario is those players shine, but we're still clearly not going to be a playoff team and become sellers at the deadline. A player like Skinner for example may want way too much money and so Bergevin smartens up and decides he shouldn't just lose him for nothing like he did Radulov. There are ways things get done when you have the pieces to make things happen.

I don't see how the Habs, with Skinner playing as well as he has, +Perron-Duclair, aren't in the PO picture. Pretty sure Skinner, if Bergevin traded for him, would come with an extension.
We would not be bad enough to the point where, at the deadline, we sell, especially not if Skinner would be just as productive. But we would still not be good enough.
Your idea is not bad, it's just at least a year too early. We need more high end talent before doing that.
If we can draft top 5 again this year, well then, maybe next year is a better timing to do what you're saying. This year was just too soon.
We are still using Domi as our top guy and he's losing some of his time at center to the benefit of Shaw.
Danault is our 2nd guy. We were using Benn between 20-25min....There is a lot of crap on this team to fix. Last summer was just not the right time to go in on free agents+trades.
We would still have too many holes, and we would now guarantee our draft selection be higher. We'd go back in this circle jerk we've been in since forever.

We need more high end drafted talent, hopefully that comes this year. After that we can look at if the timing is better for what you're suggesting to do.
 

26Mats

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Jun 23, 2018
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I don't see how the Habs, with Skinner playing as well as he has, +Perron-Duclair, aren't in the PO picture. Pretty sure Skinner, if Bergevin traded for him, would come with an extension.
We would not be bad enough to the point where, at the deadline, we sell, especially not if Skinner would be just as productive. But we would still not be good enough.
Your idea is not bad, it's just at least a year too early. We need more high end talent before doing that.
If we can draft top 5 again this year, well then, maybe next year is a better timing to do what you're saying. This year was just too soon.
We are still using Domi as our top guy and he's losing some of his time at center to the benefit of Shaw.
Danault is our 2nd guy. We were using Benn between 20-25min....There is a lot of crap on this team to fix. Last summer was just not the right time to go in on free agents+trades.
We would still have too many holes, and we would now guarantee our draft selection be higher. We'd go back in this circle jerk we've been in since forever.

We need more high end drafted talent, hopefully that comes this year. After that we can look at if the timing is better for what you're suggesting to do.

It sounds like by high end talent you mean an elite player like Kane, Toews when they carried Chicago to the cup, Ovechkin, Crosby, Mathews, McDavid, Laine, Hall, Marner, McKinnon, Hedman, Karlsson, Doughty, Subban, etc... Those players are extremely difficult to get even when you draft top 5. And, one is not enough. It took years of tanking for Chicago, LA, Pittsburgh to be good. The exceptions were Boston and Detroit who found elite talent (Datsyuk and Zetterberg) without tanking. Even they aren't able to maintain that, I think because the other teams have caught up to them in terms of scouting in Europe. And a big part of Bostons Success was Chara. He signed for 7.5 million AAV when the cap was 39 million. That's like signing for 15 million as a percentage of today's cap. A bold, great signing. But our gm cant even pony up 8 million to keep radulov happy, that's like 4 million against the old cap - which is what Chiarelli also signed Marc Savard for. And they drafted a lot of good talent, though not elite (lucic, Bergeron, krejci) although Bergero. Is an elite 2 way center, plus Thomas caught but fire.

But, if were going to tank it's going to take years of tanking. I would do that, but a just going to ha OP 0en with this grand owner. So I lean toward getting assets wherever we can, trading for futures, trying to increase the talent level, going a few Skinners and Radulovs drop from the sky, and hoping you can snag more Subbans and McDonaghs in bad years when you miss the playoffs. Duclair probably wont become a perennial all star. But theres a chance he will. For that small chance I'd rather invest in him than Armia or Peca.

And also, part of the reason I'd load up on offensive wingers is because if we're not good defensively, that would help the tank and give us assets to trade for good dmen at some point. I think theres ways of leading up on assets while still tanking at the same time. For example, my idea this summer was to get Perron, Skinner, Domi without giving up Galchenyuk, and Duclair, and play guys like Byron and Hudon at center. I didnt see domi and ok emerging to dramatically improve the center line. But if were strategic, we could have sent Kk to Finland. Anyways it's a hard puzzle unless you commit to tanking for 5 years.

And the bottom line is our GM doesn't even value high end talent, and our owner has a man crush on this GM. so we're doomed anyways
 
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Grate n Colorful Oz

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Jun 12, 2007
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On that topic, I seem to have lost my spellcheck that used to always remind me of my spelling blunders while I was on this site.

Well, yes, while on the topic, I have to admit I removed the autospelling on my phone a long time ago. Was way too scared my porn searches would spill out unto my texts, like "hey honey, I bought those scissor sisters you wanted"
 
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