Keep 1, Trade 1: Keller vs. Schmaltz
- Thread starter Mosby
- Start date
- Oct 26, 2006
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The contract situation makes this an easy choice for me, along with the fact that Keller is an undersized winger. Schmaltz, at least, can play center or wing, his contract is cheaper by a couple mil, and while he does end up with an NTC starting in 2023, it's a modified clause which gives us a lot more flexibility.
moosemeister
5,000 strong
We can’t have
Garland
Kessel
Keller
Schmaltz
all playing for the same team. Realistically I’d like to see Keller and Kessel traded. Removing Kessel does make me want to keep Keller.
But for the sake of the poll, I trade Keller first. Wouldn’t be upset if we kept him and traded Schmaltz however.
also wouldn’t be upset if Keller, Schmaltz and Kessel get traded.
Garland
Kessel
Keller
Schmaltz
all playing for the same team. Realistically I’d like to see Keller and Kessel traded. Removing Kessel does make me want to keep Keller.
But for the sake of the poll, I trade Keller first. Wouldn’t be upset if we kept him and traded Schmaltz however.
also wouldn’t be upset if Keller, Schmaltz and Kessel get traded.
I'm not voting on these false dichotomy surveys, but I will say that Keller has more potential, and Schmaltz is going to need some one good at going into the boards on his line for defense because he's ok with the stickwork, but struggles elsewhere. I think you'd also be weighing the returns for these players and Keller would return more. So are you just looking to shake things up, or do you actually want the biggest return?
WrinkledPossum
Play Dead
- Apr 23, 2016
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Kessel only has one season left on his contract, just let him walk. Or trade at the deadline if we're out.
Schmaltz. He has had issues on two teams now.
Keller has only ever played under Tocchet. It'd be idiotic to trade him at this point unless you were getting an equivalent young player in return.
Keller has only ever played under Tocchet. It'd be idiotic to trade him at this point unless you were getting an equivalent young player in return.
I made some wildly long post about a similar topic. I wanted to say I included four young guys but here is how I look at it.
Keller - Pros: youngest of the group. Locked up long term (for better or worse). Has the highest upside due to draft capital and raw skill. Cons: Makes 7m a year, soft, winger.
Schmaltz - Pros: Pretty decent product, locked up long term, played center all year in more of the Brassard model in his NYR years. Cons: Not a great two-way forward, very inconsistent, will be 25 next season, soft.
Garland - Pros: Great production, has the personality and fire we have been pleading for. Cons: due for a new contract, size and injury concerns, will be 26 next season.
Out of the three I would personally rank them.
Garland > Keller > Schmaltz
But what makes the most sense for the team long term would probably be
Keller > Garland > Schmaltz
I think I had Schmaltz above Garland in my last post, but I would prefer to straight up replace Schmaltz with a center more like Tuch, hell even more like a Dvo clone. If we are going for a retool next season, I'd like to see Schmaltz go for a center that may be a little bit older but a lot a bit tougher even if their point production is much lower.
Keller - Pros: youngest of the group. Locked up long term (for better or worse). Has the highest upside due to draft capital and raw skill. Cons: Makes 7m a year, soft, winger.
Schmaltz - Pros: Pretty decent product, locked up long term, played center all year in more of the Brassard model in his NYR years. Cons: Not a great two-way forward, very inconsistent, will be 25 next season, soft.
Garland - Pros: Great production, has the personality and fire we have been pleading for. Cons: due for a new contract, size and injury concerns, will be 26 next season.
Out of the three I would personally rank them.
Garland > Keller > Schmaltz
But what makes the most sense for the team long term would probably be
Keller > Garland > Schmaltz
I think I had Schmaltz above Garland in my last post, but I would prefer to straight up replace Schmaltz with a center more like Tuch, hell even more like a Dvo clone. If we are going for a retool next season, I'd like to see Schmaltz go for a center that may be a little bit older but a lot a bit tougher even if their point production is much lower.
I always judge Keller against his peer group.
He was drafted 7th, is 6th in goals, 3rd in assists, 5th in points and 288 out of his 291 games have been played under Tocchet. He's doing OK.
BTW - Chychrun is now 7th in goals (top Dman)
Trading Garland makes a lot of sense but I actually dont think he's reached his peak yet. Players tend to improve another step between 150-250 games experience so there's more to come.
So by elimination I voted Schmaltz, despite being a center.
He was drafted 7th, is 6th in goals, 3rd in assists, 5th in points and 288 out of his 291 games have been played under Tocchet. He's doing OK.
BTW - Chychrun is now 7th in goals (top Dman)
Trading Garland makes a lot of sense but I actually dont think he's reached his peak yet. Players tend to improve another step between 150-250 games experience so there's more to come.
So by elimination I voted Schmaltz, despite being a center.
Neighborhood Coyote
Registered User
- Sep 14, 2017
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Yup I go Schmaltz because I think you can get a good price for him on market AND there is something about his game I don't quite like very much when he's not on. Can't put my finger on it necessarily but it's there (more so than when Keller isn't on his game). Plus, age and whatnot make it even easier for me.
rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
You’re saying “trade” so of course it’s return dependent. If you’re asking me which I’d rather lose for nothing, it’s Schmaltz. If you’re asking which I’d rather trade for a real return, I’d say whichever gets me the return I like the best relative to their value.
Say I think Keller has 800 trade points and Schmaltz has 600 trade points. If the best I can get for Keller is 745 trade points but I can get 665 trade points for Schmaltz, then I’m trading Nicky. Better value. Even if the overall return is less, I want the superior RELATIVE return.
EDIT: Maybe you are asking if I could get 800 for Keller or 600 for Schmaltz, which would I choose? Damn. That’s really, really tough. I guess I go conservative and trade Schmaltz in that scenario, assuming I can only do the one. In reality, if I can get 800 for Keller and 600 for Schmaltz, I’m doing BOTH deals. For sure. I want big changes.
Sm00chy
Registered User
- Sep 29, 2017
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Keller is the exact type of player that as soon as he is traded he will explode and be a 70+ point player on another team.
That being said, I did vote Keller mainly because I think the return would be big. Yes he is undersized, but he has a lot of skills that not many have. His vision is excellent and his shot is somewhat underrated.
That being said, I did vote Keller mainly because I think the return would be big. Yes he is undersized, but he has a lot of skills that not many have. His vision is excellent and his shot is somewhat underrated.
- Oct 26, 2006
- 18,471
- 11,143
He's also the kind of player who would put up 70+ points on a team that still misses the playoffs.
rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
I picked Keller. I've already envision a Keller for Parayko trade. 1 year of Parayko for 7years of Keller and be able to protect Dunn.
We probably sign Jaden Schwartz too.
We probably sign Jaden Schwartz too.
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ParisSaintGermain
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- Jan 19, 2004
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Sm00chy
Registered User
- Sep 29, 2017
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I mean he has never hit 70 points in his career.
I still think he could be a 30 goal scorer and PPG player in this league. He just has to mature physically still. He loses way too many board battles and is still unable to get to the front of the net consistently.
I often forget he is only 22 years old
Look at the center market. It sucks. Schmaltz is earning his money. He's flawed, but so are potential replacements. It makes more sense to try him in a system that actually produces shots and offense, then trade him. Same with Keller.
Tocchet's system produces about 20% lower offensive totals for guys across the board, similar to Columbus.
Vinny Boombatz
formerly ctwin22
I'd rather him switch back to Center to try that, as his board work isn't good, and he can't be worse defensively than Schmaltz at the center position
Schmaltz is excellent defensively in the neutral zone. He's just not good at board battles from his blueline in. He'll never be ROR. Putting him on the wing aka in a phone booth makes him play even worse, so that's why he is at center this year.
Finding a center that can skate and gain the zone with offensive skill like Schmaltz is a lot easier said than done, and will cost you a pretty penny in FA for a guy with a lot more mileage. He's flawed but he will have to do for now. His contract ratchets way, way up on the back end so I expect BA to rehab his value and then trade him, or trade him this summer with another center in mind.
It's a shame they missed out on Bennett.
