KC now asked for 10's on mil's for a 'practice facility' to attract team

[Westguy13]

Westguy13:

Then why are u inserting YOURSELF into a discussion about KC---if u say the Scouts were as poorly run in KC why did the franchise be transferred twice first to Denver as the Rockies then to NJ as the Devils in 1982---- Are the NJ Devils that poorly run expansion team you are referencing and I fail to see why Denver or Atlanta shouldn't have their current teams at the expense of Quebec City & Calgary.

Uhh ok dude seriously half the points you make make no sense what so ever. I'm inserting myself in to a discussion about KC cause it's a subject I know. A where I grew up and B my passion of hockey. The franchise was moved twice BECAUSE it was poorly run thats what happens to franchises that fail they move. 10 years is alot of time to develop in to a decent team. The Scouts failed because nobody wanted to go watch a team consistantly in last place. Expansion teams at that time didn't have the luxury of an expansion draft they had to go out and get talent themselves there for not established NHL talent on most occasions.

The point about the KC Blades being dissolved has nothing to do w/ the topic of a new building ---SJ/SVSE elected to leave KC FOR the AHL as did Orlando making the Turner Cup Championship once it was determined that the IHL wasn't going to continue on, do you think the NHL was/is interested in having owners or their designates as is AEG is in being the contact for hockey in KC Isn't that a conflict of interest if they are focusing on tenancy in KC WHEN u already have a team in operation in LA before you attempt something and that's been a major point and even AEG'S own MLS Team in that market (the Wizards) were put up for sale.

The reason why the Blades were dissolved is the same reason given to why the NHL 'deserves' to be back in Winnipeg, Hartford, Quebec.....

It wasn't the NHL that was buying out the I, otherwise there would be two Chicago AREA teams in the NHL , NOT just the Blackhawks while the AHL WOULD BE @ 23 not 29, w/ Cleveland returning to active status, and there's another market there that has had numerous chances to support pro hockey and be successful to the point where it's a mainstay, stable franchise.

I understand the NHL didn't buy out the IHL I never said they did and frankly have no idea what kind of baring that has on this conversation. My point in bringing up the Blades was to say that the city has shown support for hockey in the recent past.

The AEG owns the arena they would not own the team. William "Boots" Del Baggio would own the team or Mario Lemieux and his ownership group. Secondly the AEG owns the LA Galaxy. The KC wizards were owned by Lamar hunt until recently when they were sold to Cerner corp. Get your facts staight please.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Uhh ok dude seriously half the points you make make no sense what so ever. I'm inserting myself in to a discussion about KC cause it's a subject I know. A where I grew up and B my passion of hockey. The franchise was moved twice BECAUSE it was poorly run thats what happens to franchises that fail they move. 10 years is alot of time to develop in to a decent team. The Scouts failed because nobody wanted to go watch a team consistantly in last place. Expansion teams at that time didn't have the luxury of an expansion draft they had to go out and get talent themselves there for not established NHL talent on most occasions.



I understand the NHL didn't buy out the IHL I never said they did and frankly have no idea what kind of baring that has on this conversation. My point in bringing up the Blades was to say that the city has shown support for hockey in the recent past.

The AEG owns the arena they would not own the team. William "Boots" Del Baggio would own the team or Mario Lemieux and his ownership group. Secondly the AEG owns the LA Galaxy. The KC wizards were owned by Lamar hunt until recently when they were sold to Cerner corp. Get your facts staight please.

AEG owns a lot more than the LA Galaxy in MLS, And Pittsburgh is not moving to Kansas City, they are staying in Pittsburgh but don't u find it completely strange u are not hearing from the prospective owner of a KC Hockey team but from Tim Leiweke and AEG all over this topic, Westguy113, let the prospective owner do their searching, you don't see Global Spectrum in the same boat if they are hired to manage a building.

 

[Westguy13]

AEG owns a lot more than the LA Galaxy in MLS,

And the MLS has to do with hockey how anyway? The point was they don't, and never have, owned the KC Wizards.

And Pittsburgh is not moving to Kansas City, they are staying in Pittsburgh, but don't u find it completely strange u are not hearing from the prospective owner of a KC Hockey team but from Tim Leiweke and AEG all over this topic.

Uhh nothing is settled yet. Mario told the AEG he would have word by the end of the month. You're hearing from the AEG because they own the arena. Right now the talks are for the team to move there, not for the AEG to buy them. If they move to KC then William "Boots" Del Baggio will most likly be buying the team as he has a deal with the AEG for a team in KC.

Westguy113, let the prospective owner do their searching.

Right now Mario is driving the boat so to speak. He is doing the negotiations to find where the team will be before he sells. This keeps the NHL from putting stipulations on a team like they did to Basillie.

 

[GSC2k2*]

This keeps the NHL from putting stipulations on a team like they did to Basillie.

You do not seem to understand how this works. The NHL's consent is a prequisite to any sale of a franchise. There is a standard set of terms and conditions that the NHL requires frmo each transferee. The initial requirements imposed upon Balsillie were no different than that for any other proposed transferee. It does not matter how the Pens are negotiating the sale. Consent is still required, and there are always terms and conditions attached to that consent.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

And the MLS has to do with hockey how anyway? The point was they don't, and never have, owned the KC Wizards.


Uhh nothing is settled yet. Mario told the AEG he would have word by the end of the month. You're hearing from the AEG because they own the arena. Right now the talks are for the team to move there, not for the AEG to buy them. If they move to KC then William "Boots" Del Baggio will most likly be buying the team as he has a deal with the AEG for a team in KC.


Right now Mario is driving the boat so to speak. He is doing the negotiations to find where the team will be before he sells. This keeps the NHL from putting stipulations on a team like they did to Basillie.

This was given to the media Thursday night when the Penguins were in Boston, Westguy113:

The Pittsburgh Penguins will be in discussions to secure a new arena to remain in Pittsburgh for the foreseeable future and the Penguins will have an announcement within two weeks that they are remaining in Pittsburgh.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

You do not seem to understand how this works. The NHL's consent is a prequisite to any sale of a franchise. There is a standard set of terms and conditions that the NHL requires frmo each transferee. The initial requirements imposed upon Balsillie were no different than that for any other proposed transferee. It does not matter how the Pens are negotiating the sale. Consent is still required, and there are always terms and conditions attached to that consent.

Bettman has the role if he so desired to exercise(which he did) and placed any condition on Basilie forcing his ultimate withdrawal from the sale similar to what is termed in the best interests of the NHL.

 

[GSC2k2*]

Bettman has the role if he so desired to exercise(which he did) and placed any condition on Basilie forcing his ultimate withdrawal from the sale similar to what is termed in the best interests of the NHL.

No, that is not correct. You are clearly comparing it to what the old MLB commissioners had. That is not what happened. The conditions placed on Balsillie were standard conditions that were/are demanded of every prospective owner. Tehy are not arbitrary. The conditions are not imposed by Bettman. They are imposed by the NHL board of governors. Bettman is not some kind of czar.

They were not imposed in the last minute either, by the way.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

No, that is not correct. You are clearly comparing it to what the old MLB commissioners had. That is not what happened. The conditions placed on Balsillie were standard conditions that were/are demanded of every prospective owner. Tehy are not arbitrary. The conditions are not imposed by Bettman. They are imposed by the NHL board of governors. Bettman is not some kind of czar.

They were not imposed in the last minute either, by the way.

But it was similiar because obviously Balsillie ultimately had the proposal but then it 'fell apart' to the point where it was withdrawn then otherwise Balsillie would be the one negotiating or exploring the possibility of a relocation to KC, not Mario.

 

[Westguy13]

You do not seem to understand how this works. The NHL's consent is a prequisite to any sale of a franchise. There is a standard set of terms and conditions that the NHL requires frmo each transferee. The initial requirements imposed upon Balsillie were no different than that for any other proposed transferee. It does not matter how the Pens are negotiating the sale. Consent is still required, and there are always terms and conditions attached to that consent.

You are correct the INITIAL requirements imposed on Balsillie were no different then that for any other proposed transfer. At the last minute Bettman put the stipulations on Balsillie that he could not move the team from Pittsburgh "under any circumstances" as well as a stipulation that the NHL could take over controll of the Penguins if at any time they were unsatisfied with his running of the organization. Not normal stipulations. If Mario and company wanted to he could move the team then sell them and the NHL couldn't stop the move.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=188556&hubname=nhl

"Sources say the NHL introduced a lengthy list of terms and conditions on the closing day that Balsillie would have to agree to if he were going to be approved as the new owner of the team. The sources added that those conditions included keeping the franchise in Pittsburgh under any circumstances and also provided for a scenario where the league could take control the franchise if it deemed it necessary."

If Balsillie would have signed under those stipulations he would have NO bargaining platform with the city/state officials which could have been terrible for the organization.

 

[Westguy13]

This was given to the media Thursday night when the Penguins were in Boston, Westguy113:

The Pittsburgh Penguins will be in discussions to secure a new arena to remain in Pittsburgh for the foreseeable future and the Penguins will have an announcement within two weeks that they are remaining in Pittsburgh.

Uhhh if you can get me an article that says they WILL be staying in Pittsburgh let me see it cause nobody else seems to think that exists. The Pens have indeed been in meetings with city and state officials in the last two weeks or so. There is however no final conculsion at this point. Mario did however say that he should have his answer in the next few weeks.

BTW why would they be in Boston for meetings with Pennsylvania and Pittsburgh officals?

Jan 20th
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07020/755371-61.stm

"One of those options is Kansas City, where the $276 million Sprint Center will open this fall. The Penguins are being offered a deal that includes free rent and a share of building revenues. It's likely that the team will explore that option more seriously in the wake of Thursday's meeting. The Penguins' Mellon Arena lease expires at the end of June."

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Uhhh if you can get me an article that says they WILL be staying in Pittsburgh let me see it cause nobody else seems to think that exists. The Pens have indeed been in meetings with city and state officials in the last two weeks or so. There is however no final conculsion at this point. Mario did however say that he should have his answer in the next few weeks.

BTW why would they be in Boston for meetings with Pennsylvania and Pittsburgh officals?

Jan 20th
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07020/755371-61.stm

"One of those options is Kansas City, where the $276 million Sprint Center will open this fall. The Penguins are being offered a deal that includes free rent and a share of building revenues. It's likely that the team will explore that option more seriously in the wake of Thursday's meeting. The Penguins' Mellon Arena lease expires at the end of June."

You don't comprehend very well do u, Westguy113 1st of all I've been reading your posts on the Penguins board and most, if not all hockey fans, berated you for attempting to "steal" the Penguins franchise, and did u forget the Penguins are no longer for sale but "exploring" KC, nothing more or less.

Where does it say that KC will be approved by the NHL if/when the Penguins secure an arena in which negotiations are continuing and a resolution is made that was announced during the Penguins game on Thursday in Boston.

I fail to see the Arena League KC Brigade being the main tenant in Sprint Center when it opens 2, it's a shock that KC got the Brigade at the expense of restarting the New Orleans VooDoo. Wouldn't I love to see the iced version of the KC Kings just like the hardwood version in the mid 80s before it landed in Sacramento

 

[bones21212]

kansas city had a team...winnipeg had a team, minnesota had a team, quebec had a team, hartford had a team.
dont lose your team for lack of support and then come back asking for a new team.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

kansas city had a team...winnipeg had a team, minnesota had a team, quebec had a team, hartford had a team.
dont lose your team for lack of support and then come back asking for a new team.

actually, Winnipeg, Quebec & Hartford still have hockey teams, just not NHL Teams.

Kansas City tried w/ the Scouts, (later the Rockies, now Devils) the Blues in the CHL; even Detroit had a brief fling w/ KC in the mid 70s; the Blades and the 1 season Outlaws which were so laughed at polls came out as to how long the Outlaws would live in the UHL

 

[Westguy13]

You don't comprehend very well do u, Westguy113 1st of all I've been reading your posts on the Penguins board and most, if not all hockey fans, berated you for attempting to "steal" the Penguins franchise.

Lol no most Pens fans do because my location says I'm near KC. I haven't heard a single fan of a team other then Pittsburgh "Berate" me. My repuation on the Pens boards does not escape me, I know what light they view me in. Just because a bunch of people that don't know me like to interpret my intentions doesn't mean anything.

BTW not many of them oppose my knowledge of the situation either. They just don't like the way I state it or appearntly when. They are scared of losing their team I understand that. I went through it with the Wizards (I've had season tickets since the first year of the MLS.) It sucks...

and did u forget the Penguins are no longer for sale but "exploring" KC, nothing more or less.

Exactly they aren't for sale at the moment I never said they were. Of course there are personal quotes from Lemieux that the Pens may still be for sale after an arena is procured. I never said they were moveing to KC. If you have actually read most of my posts you would know that I am under no dilusions as to the fact that the Penguins are most likly staying in Pittsburgh. You would also know that I have stated many times -- a fact oftenly ignored -- that I do not wish the Penguins to move out of Pittsburgh due to their great history there. In fact the truth of it is a team in KC does nothing for me as I spend most of my time out of state on buisness. Not to mention, I'm a die hard Sabres fan and absolutly hate the Pittsburgh Penguins.

Where does it say that KC will be approved by the NHL if when the Penguins secure an arena in which negotiations are continuing and a resolution is made that was announced during the Penguins game on Thursday in Boston.

The NHL can't stop the move of a franchise unless otherwise stated in the original purchase agreement. The franchise is for the most part an independent entity loosly governed by the NHL board. Indeed the Pens are currently in negotiation with state, city and county officials. There has however been no agreement as of yet. The Penguins have been through I belive 2 meetings with the AEG. The AEG proposal is set and on the table. The Pensylvannia "Plan B" is still being negoatiated.

I fail to see the Arena League KC Brigade being the main tenant in Sprint Center when it opens 2, it's a shock that KC got the Brigade at the expense of restarting the New Orleans VooDoo. Wouldn't I love to see the iced version of the KC Kings just like the hardwood version in the mid 80s before it landed in Sacramento:sarcasm

The Brigade will only be the anchor tenant for the Sprint Center if an NBA or NHL team is not found. Otherwise the Brigade will stay at Kemper Arena.

 

[Westguy13]

actually, Winnipeg, Quebec & Hartford still have hockey teams, just not NHL Teams.

Kansas City tried w/ the Scouts, (later the Rockies, now Devils)

I love that people think a team 30+ years ago leaving has some kind of barring on the NHL now. Minnesota North Stars, Atlanta Flames, Colorado Rockies any of those teams sound familiar? All three left and now have new teams that are some of the better hockey markets in the US.

 

[baston]

kansas city had a team...winnipeg had a team, minnesota had a team, quebec had a team, hartford had a team.
dont lose your team for lack of support and then come back asking for a new team.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about.

The Nordiques moved because the owner, Marcel Aubut, knew that the new CBA signed in 1995 would kill the league and would rather sell his "business" at the time than wait and lose his investment. He asked for a ******** of money from the government, got a "no", and then sold the team. The whole process was very fast if you compare to Pittsburgh or Edmonton where the owners are willing to work hard and negociate to make it happen.

Quebec lost it's team because the owners made a quick business move. Not because the city didn't support it's team.

On it's first 4 years of existance, the Colorado Avalanche averaged less than 2000 more in attendance than the Nordiques did. And, that's only because "Le Colisée" has a little less than 15000 seats. The place was sold out every night, so, don'T come here saying that Quebec, Winnipeg, Hartford, Minnesota didn't support it's teams when Chicago had 8,008 fans in the United Center.

 

[GSC2k2*]

You are correct the INITIAL requirements imposed on Balsillie were no different then that for any other proposed transfer. At the last minute Bettman put the stipulations on Balsillie that he could not move the team from Pittsburgh "under any circumstances" as well as a stipulation that the NHL could take over controll of the Penguins if at any time they were unsatisfied with his running of the organization. Not normal stipulations. If Mario and company wanted to he could move the team then sell them and the NHL couldn't stop the move.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=188556&hubname=nhl

"Sources say the NHL introduced a lengthy list of terms and conditions on the closing day that Balsillie would have to agree to if he were going to be approved as the new owner of the team. The sources added that those conditions included keeping the franchise in Pittsburgh under any circumstances and also provided for a scenario where the league could take control the franchise if it deemed it necessary."

If Balsillie would have signed under those stipulations he would have NO bargaining platform with the city/state officials which could have been terrible for the organization.

That view (from unnamed sources) was pretty much demolished some time ago by a subsequent live interview that Bill Daly did on the FAN590 wherein he categorically rejected those statements. The story was put to him and asked if it was true, and he said "No". He then went on to describe exactly what happened. Not a peep came out from the unnamed sources to contradict it in the media thereafter, so draw your own conclusiosn who was dealing straight and who was trying to spin (hint: unnamed sources usually have an agenda since they are "unnamed" and do not want people to know that they are serving an agenda). The interview was on the website. I am not sure if it is still there. It went for about 12 minutes. It was quite comprehensive. Daly did not stumble even a bit and answered every question immediately and succinctly.

He also rejected the idea that there were restrictions on moving the Pens of the type you say. You should get your facts right.

You are therefore working from dated news.

 

[Westguy13]

That view (from unnamed sources) was pretty much demolished some time ago by a subsequent live interview that Bill Daly did on the FAN590 wherein he categorically rejected those statements. The story was put to him and asked if it was true, and he said "No". He then went on to describe exactly what happened. Not a peep came out from the unnamed sources to contradict it in the media thereafter, so draw your own conclusiosn who was dealing straight and who was trying to spin (hint: unnamed sources usually have an agenda since they are "unnamed" and do not want people to know that they are serving an agenda). The interview was on the website. I am not sure if it is still there. It went for about 12 minutes. It was quite comprehensive. Daly did not stumble even a bit and answered every question immediately and succinctly.

He also rejected the idea that there were restrictions on moving the Pens of the type you say. You should get your facts right.

You are therefore working from dated news.

This is the first I've heard of this think you could send me a link?

Bill Daly is a world class ******** artist anyway like most lawyers. Most times in these negotiations they are forced to sign non-discloser agreements which could be a reason for it being an "undisclosed source".

 

[Bear of Bad News]

On it's first 4 years of existance, the Colorado Avalanche averaged less than 2000 more in attendance than the Nordiques did. And, that's only because "Le Colisée" has a little less than 15000 seats. The place was sold out every night,

The capacity of the Colisee was 15,750 for the NHL Nordiques

(My source was a Nords media guide, which I obviously cannot link to here, but it's confirmed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colisée_Pepsi)

Mean attendance the Nordiques' final three NHL seasons was 14,981 (1992-93), 14,614 (1993-94), and 14,395 (1994-95).

I'm not meaning to disparage Quebec's attendance in any way, but please don't make up false claims.

 

[baston]

The capacity of the Colisee was 15,750 for the NHL Nordiques

(My source was a Nords media guide, which I obviously cannot link to here, but it's confirmed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colisée_Pepsi)

Mean attendance the Nordiques' final three NHL seasons was 14,981 (1992-93), 14,614 (1993-94), and 14,395 (1994-95).

I'm not meaning to disparage Quebec's attendance in any way, but please don't make up false claims.

You sir are right, I was wrong. Le Colisée's capacity is 15 499 seats. There are a lot of lost seats though, seats behing columns that can't be used. Yeah, sounds awfully stupid, but it's true.

Still, my point is that with an average of 14 614 fans in the arena, Quebec sure didn't "abandon" it's team.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I love that people think a team 30+ years ago leaving has some kind of barring on the NHL now. Minnesota North Stars, Atlanta Flames, Colorado Rockies any of those teams sound familiar? All three left and now have new teams that are some of the better hockey markets in the US.

Are u also saying that Kansas City doesn't deserve the Scouts, the Chiefs, the Royals, the Wizards, or the Brigade, not to mention the Blades, the Blues or any other franchise that KC has hosted in the 4 professional sports, Westguy113.

Are u also stating San Jose, Dallas, or Calgary shouldn't have those teams either

BTW, the Rockies still exist check out MLB AND Coors Field

 

[GSC2k2*]

This is the first I've heard of this think you could send me a link?

Bill Daly is a world class ******** artist anyway like most lawyers. Most times in these negotiations they are forced to sign non-discloser agreements which could be a reason for it being an "undisclosed source".

The original link is long gone at the FAN, but to be honest it was a well-known interview that was much discussed here and elsewhere. I don't want to be too critical, but if it is the first you are hearing of it, you may want to reconsider engaging in a discussion about this stuff, since only someone who was really unfamiliar with this story would not be aware of it, and particularly if you want to correct others.

You can probably find countless mentions of it in threads in this forum, but here is an interview for another station where he said the same thing:

http://www.570news.com/news/topstory/article.jsp?content=20061221_042843_4268

Also:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...ont/?page=rss&id=RTGAM.20061218.wsptlemieux18

http://sportsbiznews.blogspot.com/search/label/Frank%20D'Angelo

That is just from five minutes spent on Yahoo. Unfortunately they do not truly capture the tenor of his comments, which were very matter-of-fact and quite credible IMO.

By the way, your knowledge of this situation is about the same as your knowledge of what lawyers are, which incidentally is not "bull**** artists". Go slag some other profession.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

BTW, the Rockies still exist check out MLB AND Coors Field

Is this the sort of asinine argument that you're now forced to resort to?

You know exactly what he's talking about.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Is this the sort of asinine argument that you're now forced to resort to?

You know exactly what he's talking about.

It's about the only way he seems to understand or comprehend anything

His first post on the PENGUINS Board stating all he wanted for Christmas was the KC Penguins, enough said

 

[Westguy13]

It's about the only way he seems to understand or comprehend anything

His first post on the PENGUINS Board stating all he wanted for Christmas was the KC Penguins, enough said

Lol it was an inside joke directed to a friend of mine on those boards. Yes very poorly placed and I indeed regret it. But seriously come with some correct facts and maybe you'll get alittle more respect from me. It's sad that you have regressed to attacking my character, very childish...

BTW I say that I don't understand what you are trying to say, after alot of your posts, because you tend to lose a train of thought half way through a sentence so it's very hard to follow. That or you reference something from completly out of left feild that has zero baring on what we were talking about. I'm not trying to be rude in anyway I'm just trying to figure out what you are trying to say most of the time.