Katz interview from Studio 99

[rboomercat90]

In fairness

1.) The Seattle ploy (which likely never was actually going to happen) worked. It was a kick in the ass to city council who started to expedite the process not soon after. He was smart to do it. If only our actual management was actually as smart and effective maybe we'd have a good hockey team.

2.) Yakupov was the consensus no.1 overall pick by a laaaaaaaaaarge margin. Many people were saying he was the next Ovechkin. Also the guy that "Oiler scouts" wanted (Ryan Murray) is also a mediocre player. It was a bad draft class, which is bad luck.

He deserves flak for not being able to hire a great GM. We don't need "caring". We need a good GM hire who is as ruthless and good as Katz is in arena negotiations.

In reality

1) The Seattle play was actually his third attempt at threatening to move the team if he didn’t get his way. The first time was when he used Hamilton (he made a business deal with Copps Coliseum and guaranteed they’d have an NHL team within three years) just days after the team drafted Taylor Hall. There was finally a little positivity after a horrendous season and he put a damper on that quickly. He had full public support for an arena deal at that time and he still felt the need to pull a page out of the Peter Pocklington book of negotiating. That’s when he lost my support and I’m guessing a lot of others too. Months later he had Lowe and Laforge tour Quebec City’s new arena and let the media know they were there. Those antics made things harder for himself. I agree the Seattle deal was never happening and that’s why he looked foolish for doing it.

2) it’s irrelevant that Ryan Murray turned out to be a bust or that it was a bad draft year. Nobody knew that at the time. The point was the team needed a defenseman over another skilled winger and both his GM and his scouting staff were prepared to take one. Yakupov may have been a consensus number one pick although he came with a lot of question marks. He wasn’t what the team needed and that pick should have been used in some form to address a team need, either by drafting a defenseman or trading it for one. Katz interfered because he wanted the flashy toy to sell more jerseys. What made that even worse is nobody else in the organization wanted him and they treated him that way right from the beginning. What a colossal waste of a first overall pick by an interfering owner.

 

[harpoon]

The "plan" was that they would tank and build up multiple high end talented players after being shunned by the likes of Pronger, Heatley, Hossa, etc. And Katz was cool with that because it would take a few years to get the arena issue ironed out.

I think it's a little more than 'Katz was cool with that.' I agree with your theory on why they did what they did, and have been posting similar thoughts since before the arena even had final approval. In fact it was obvious in the way Mr Katz handled the purchase of the team from EIG team, freezing Northland's right out of the picture like they were nothing in the process, and in the way he handled the arena negotiation (business men against children that was), that Mr Katz generally gets things done his way. It's also clear that he's had a timeline in mind all along.

I say he was a little more than cool with the plan to tank, hoover up a few charity picks, and have a top tier team in place for the start of last season and the new arena ... just in time to be crowned King of Edmonton. I'd say it was his plan.

Hands up anyone who thinks Kevin Lowe (I know a thing or two about winning etc) and MacT came up with that plan. It's far too complicated and risky, not to mention it goes against the hockey pride of the OBC to come up with the idea of losing on purpose. I belive it was the business man who came up with the plan and the hockey guys who let themselves get talked into going along with it.

 

[Little Fury]

Yet that all he’s done as owner of the Oilers

But he hired Bobby Burgers and your boy Chia!

 

[rboomercat90]

I think it's a little more than 'Katz was cool with that.' I agree with your theory on why they did what they did, and have been posting similar thoughts since before the arena even had final approval. In fact it was obvious in the way Mr Katz handled the purchase of the team from EIG team, freezing Northland's right out of the picture like they were nothing in the process, and in the way he handled the arena negotiation (business men against children that was), that Mr Katz generally gets things done his way. It's also clear that he's had a timeline in mind all along.

I say he was a little more than cool with the plan to tank, hoover up a few charity picks, and have a top tier team in place for the start of last season and the new arena ... just in time to be crowned King of Edmonton. I'd say it was his plan.

Hands up anyone who thinks Kevin Lowe (I know a thing or two about winning etc) and MacT came up with that plan. It's far too complicated and risky, not to mention it goes against the hockey pride of the OBC to come up with the idea of losing on purpose. I belive it was the business man who came up with the plan and the hockey guys who let themselves get talked into going along with it.

Can we agree that there was no more to the plan than just losing for high picks because that’s all they thought they needed to do?

 

[harpoon]

Can we agree that there was no more to the plan than just losing for high picks because that’s all they thought they needed to do?

I’m pretty sure Katz thought that’s all they needed to do. He doesn’t know hockey but from a business perspective I can see how it would look like a good idea to him. And I believe that Lowe and MacT, never shy about over estimating themselves, were horn-swoggled by Mr Katz’s grand vision (one in which they all come out heroes in the end) and the size of his money bag.

You need to remember too that most fans, posters on this site were fully down with the tank. They wanted those charity lotto picks. It’s all this board talked about for like five seasons. People actually posted we were making a dynasty and ‘settling’ for one SC was nonsense. I think those who felt as you did about Mr Katz were few and not well received on this board.

 

[The Nuge]

Can we agree that there was no more to the plan than just losing for high picks because that’s all they thought they needed to do?

Ya at the time it looked easy. We all thought so as well. With hindsight, Buffalo has proven even more so than us, just how hard it is. We had no assets and basically were forced to tank to try and get some pieces with value. Buffalo had a decent team, with valuable assets, so their scorched earth method started with more picks, and they’re worse than us.

By all account outside this site Katz is a hardcore fan. It's just a narrative from hf that he doesn't care.

Absolutely. He wouldn’t spend all that money to give guys like Wayne a meaningless job if he wasn’t a diehard fan. I don’t care what anyone says. We’re lucky to have Katz. I’d hate to go back to the days of being broke. We already lost the best player in the game for monetary reasons once. I’d rather not do it twice.

 

[rboomercat90]

I’m pretty sure Katz thought that’s all they needed to do. He doesn’t know hockey but from a business perspective I can see how it would look like a good idea to him. And I believe that Lowe and MacT, never shy about over estimating themselves, were horn-swoggled by Mr Katz’s grand vision (one in which they all come out heroes in the end) and the size of his money bag.

You need to remember too that most fans, posters on this site were fully down with the tank. They wanted those charity lotto picks. It’s all this board talked about for like five seasons. People actually posted we were making a dynasty and ‘settling’ for one SC was nonsense. I think those who felt as you did about Mr Katz were few and not well received on this board.

I wasn’t here in 2010 but I was on the Oilers Message Board where I received an unending amount of ridicule. So much so that it was suggested to me that I bring my negativity to this site where it would be appreciated. Wasn’t really appreciated here either, sigh...

I still laugh at the thought of the posters on OMB who wanted me banned in 2011 because I was convinced Mactavish was going to be brought back at some point. Such ridiculous thought had to be trolling and there was no place for that there.

 

[rboomercat90]

Ya at the time it looked easy. We all thought so as well. With hindsight, Buffalo has proven even more so than us, just how hard it is. We had no assets and basically were forced to tank to try and get some pieces with value. Buffalo had a decent team, with valuable assets, so their scorched earth method started with more picks, and they’re worse than us.

There were teams around at that time that had proven nothing was a guarantee. The Islanders were the ones that jumped out at me. They kept recycling young players because they couldn’t keep all of them and when it was time to pick and choose who to keep and who to move on, they kept getting it wrong. You need really good hockey people making those decisions and in my mind, by 2010, Kevin Lowe had proven he wasn’t one. When they left him in charge of the organization, I couldn’t get behind the plan. I just saw it as an excuse to avoid accountability for as long as they could. Obviously, they never did anything to change my mind.

As far as Katz being a wealthy owner and the team is in good hands because of it, we’ll see. He’s never had a season where the arena hasn’t been filled at a high ticket price. We’ve only seen him when times are good. I want to see what he’s like as an owner when the building isn’t full, when fans start to get tired for paying for a bad team. There have been whispers this team is on the brink of that right now. That’s why I suspect we’re hearing from him now. I want to see if he’s an owner that will still spend to the cap if revenues drop after years of filling his pockets or if he’ll punish the fans and cut payroll or even sell. That’s what I’m curious about. I don’t think he can be judged as a stable owner until he’s had a few seasons like that.

 

[guymez]

There were teams around at that time that had proven nothing was a guarantee. The Islanders were the ones that jumped out at me. They kept recycling young players because they couldn’t keep all of them and when it was time to pick and choose who to keep and who to move on, they kept getting it wrong. You need really good hockey people making those decisions and in my mind, by 2010, Kevin Lowe had proven he wasn’t one. When they left him in charge of the organization, I couldn’t get behind the plan. I just saw it as an excuse to avoid accountability for as long as they could. Obviously, they never did anything to change my mind.

As far as Katz being a wealthy owner and the team is in good hands because of it, we’ll see. He’s never had a season where the arena hasn’t been filled at a high ticket price. We’ve only seen him when times are good. I want to see what he’s like as an owner when the building isn’t full, when fans start to get tired for paying for a bad team. There have been whispers this team is on the brink of that right now. That’s why I suspect we’re hearing from him now. I want to see if he’s an owner that will still spend to the cap if revenues drop after years of filling his pockets or if he’ll punish the fans and cut payroll or even sell. That’s what I’m curious about. I don’t think he can be judged as a stable owner until he’s had a few seasons like that.

Katz is too financially invested in the OEG infrastructure...he isnt going anywhere IMO.

 

[Soundwave]

There were teams around at that time that had proven nothing was a guarantee. The Islanders were the ones that jumped out at me. They kept recycling young players because they couldn’t keep all of them and when it was time to pick and choose who to keep and who to move on, they kept getting it wrong. You need really good hockey people making those decisions and in my mind, by 2010, Kevin Lowe had proven he wasn’t one. When they left him in charge of the organization, I couldn’t get behind the plan. I just saw it as an excuse to avoid accountability for as long as they could. Obviously, they never did anything to change my mind.

As far as Katz being a wealthy owner and the team is in good hands because of it, we’ll see. He’s never had a season where the arena hasn’t been filled at a high ticket price. We’ve only seen him when times are good. I want to see what he’s like as an owner when the building isn’t full, when fans start to get tired for paying for a bad team. There have been whispers this team is on the brink of that right now. That’s why I suspect we’re hearing from him now. I want to see if he’s an owner that will still spend to the cap if revenues drop after years of filling his pockets or if he’ll punish the fans and cut payroll or even sell. That’s what I’m curious about. I don’t think he can be judged as a stable owner until he’s had a few seasons like that.

I'd rather have kept Mac T than what we have now. Better than 50-50 chance he would've gotten gift wrapped Dougie Hamilton right off the bat and anyone can just sit around and watch McDavid elevate a franchise. Slats does the same deal for Talbot for Mac T, he probably actually is easier on Mac T because he knows him.

 

[harpoon]

Wasn’t really appreciated here either, sigh...

I enjoy your posts. Not that I’m always in agreement, but it’s a good read usually.

I think the team sold out its fans. Left them crawling through a desert for five seasons while they didn’t even really bother that much about assembling a roster of actual NHL players. They did this in order to pursue the financial gain of having a new arena (eventually necessary anyway) and ancillary projects designed to ‘revitalize downtown ‘ and enrich the participants. To be sure the team is in much better financial situation now than when Katz took over, so we need to recognize that positive reality as well.

It feels like Katz left the team in the hands of folks he believed were capable while he focused on making financial deals to profit the team, improve Edmonton and enrich Katz group companies. That probably seemed reasonable to him. I mean he’d basically instructed them to not win too much and keep the eye on the draft board. Who could possibly f*** that up, right? I mean these guys are hockey legends, right?

Enter: Lowe, MacT, Tambellini, Eakins, Nicholson, Chiarelli, McLellan and a cast of well meaning but ultimately incompetent stooges.

What’s most irritating about the tank for me, and I opposed it all along, is that it ultimately worked. They landed McDavid by sheer luck on a season they were just legit lousy, not tanking. If they had only judiciously, with extreme care, tweaked the roster of tanking lotto talent they already had on board, this team would have won. They would be winning right now. Instead, Mr Hockey Canada took the chair and promptly f***ed it up again by hiring the wrong GM and the wrong coach. Ironically after the McDavid draft win, Katz probably would have been better off today had he just kept the OBC.

Katz is probably legit pissed right about now. Last thing he wants is any attention turning to him. I see his point in a way. He’s spent to the cap. He’s hired what he was told were the best people. Then hired more of them. Done his part and delivered a new arena mostly paid for by others. And still nothing. Team is getting called out by more big media outlets because of wasting McDavid. Katz doesn’t want to hear anything like that when he’s trying to enjoy his dinner.

 

[rboomercat90]

I'd rather have kept Mac T than what we have now. Better than 50-50 chance he would've gotten gift wrapped Dougie Hamilton right off the bat and anyone can just sit around and watch McDavid elevate a franchise. Slats does the same deal for Talbot for Mac T, he probably actually is easier on Mac T because he knows him.

You may get your wish soon enough. Mactavish is more qualified to be GM after working under Chiarelli the last three and a half years than he was when he had the job before. I honestly don’t care anymore. I don’t think it makes a difference who holds that title in this organization.

 

[rboomercat90]

Katz is too financially invested in the OEG infrastructure...he isnt going anywhere IMO.

I don’t know enough about his business to know if it matters whether or not he owns the team. He may have made all his money with that outside of what the team does.

 

[Soundwave]

You may get your wish soon enough. Mactavish is more qualified to be GM after working under Chiarelli the last three and a half years than he was when he had the job before. I honestly don’t care anymore. I don’t think it makes a difference who holds that title in this organization.

My wish isn't to have Mac T going forward. I'm saying from 2015-2018, it wouldn't really shock me if Mac T ended up doing a better job than the one that was actually done.

He probably would've been gift wrapped Hamilton by dumb luck (just like the McLottery balls) and then just rode that gravy train straight to the station. They then don't have to make the Larsson trade, and they're probably basically in the same spot the Leafs are now.

 

[rboomercat90]

I enjoy your posts. Not that I’m always in agreement, but it’s a good read usually.

I think the team sold out its fans. Left them crawling through a desert for five seasons while they didn’t even really bother that much about assembling a roster of actual NHL players. They did this in order to pursue the financial gain of having a new arena (eventually necessary anyway) and ancillary projects designed to ‘revitalize downtown ‘ and enrich the participants. To be sure the team is in much better financial situation now than when Katz took over, so we need to recognize that positive reality as well.

It feels like Katz left the team in the hands of folks he believed were capable while he focused on making financial deals to profit the team, improve Edmonton and enrich Katz group companies. That probably seemed reasonable to him. I mean he’d basically instructed them to not win too much and keep the eye on the draft board. Who could possibly **** that up, right? I mean these guys are hockey legends, right?

Enter: Lowe, MacT, Tambellini, Eakins, Nicholson, Chiarelli, McLellan and a cast of well meaning but ultimately incompetent stooges.

What’s most irritating about the tank for me, and I opposed it all along, is that it ultimately worked. They landed McDavid by sheer luck on a season they were just legit lousy, not tanking. If they had only judiciously, with extreme care, tweaked the roster of tanking lotto talent they already had on board, this team would have won. They would be winning right now. Instead, Mr Hockey Canada took the chair and promptly ****ed it up again by hiring the wrong GM and the wrong coach. Ironically after the McDavid draft win, Katz probably would have been better off today had he just kept the OBC.

Katz is probably legit pissed right about now. Last thing he wants is any attention turning to him. I see his point in a way. He’s spent to the cap. He’s hired what he was told were the best people. Then hired more of them. Done his part and delivered a new arena mostly paid for by others. And still nothing. Team is getting called out by more big media outlets because of wasting McDavid. Katz doesn’t want to hear anything like that when he’s trying to enjoy his dinner.

You give him more credit than I do. I concede I soured on him so much so long ago that I don’t see that much positivity to his ownership, especially when it comes to what he thinks about the on ice product.

 

[guymez]

I don’t know enough about his business to know if it matters whether or not he owns the team. He may have made all his money with that outside of what the team does.

I think that he is a fan though. At least that seems pretty clear so I think he does cares about how well the team does.
He also clearly cares about his friendship/loyalty with Lowe and MacT.
I see this as Katz wanting his cake and eating it too. I think that he really believes he can relive the glory days (with the boys on the bus gang) except this time he can do it from the inside.

That would be really appealing (and difficult to turn away from) for almost any long time Oiler fan actually.

 

[Soundwave]

I think that he is a fan though. At least that seems pretty clear so I think he does cares about how well the team does.
He also clearly cares about his friendship/loyalty with Lowe and MacT.
I see this as Katz wanting his cake and eating it too. I think that he really believes he can relive the glory days (with the boys on the bus gang) except from the inside this time.

Nothing wrong with wanting that.

You just have to hire a decent GM. Therein lies the problem. It shouldn't be that hard to have at least a sure fire playoff team around McDavid.

 

[rboomercat90]

My wish isn't to have Mac T going forward. I'm saying from 2015-2018, it wouldn't really shock me if Mac T ended up doing a better job than the one that was actually done.

He probably would've been gift wrapped Hamilton by dumb luck (just like the McLottery balls) and then just rode that gravy train straight to the station. They then don't have to make the Larsson trade, and they're probably basically in the same spot the Leafs are now.

Maybe, I understand what you’re saying but I still don’t think you’re right. You’re assuming the guy that’s holding the GM title is the guy making all the decisions for this team. Normally, you should be right but with this bloated front office I think it’s only an assumption. I still think Hall was going to be traded irregardless of anything else that happened. I don’t think it was a hockey decision but something else and that it was an organizational decision and not Chiarelli’s alone. You don’t make a move of that type of a player without the owner being involved in the decision. Could Mactavish have gotten a better return? Maybe but I’m not sure why you’d think that.

 

[Soundwave]

Maybe, I understand what you’re saying but I still don’t think you’re right. You’re assuming the guy that’s holding the GM title is the guy making all the decisions for this team. Normally, you should be right but with this bloated front office I think it’s only an assumption. I still think Hall was going to be traded irregardless of anything else that happened. I don’t think it was a hockey decision but something else and that it was an organizational decision and not Chiarelli’s alone. You don’t make a move of that type of a player without the owner being involved in the decision. Could Mactavish have gotten a better return? Maybe but I’m not sure why you’d think that.

0 chance Kevin Lowe would OK trading Taylor Hall. That was actually probably an example of where the OBC could have helped. Give away a Taylor Hall who wants to be in Edmonton after you've grovelled at the feet of Pronger's wife, Hossa, Heatley? The first no.1 overall in the franchise? The proud wearer of Lowe's no.4, sanctioned by Lowe himself? No way.

That's all Chiarelli's hubris, he did the same exact stupid thing with Seguin. Hall had to go because Lucic gave Chia the wink, wink he was gonna sign in Edmonton. Once that was clear, Hall was gone.

It's easy to want to blame everything on a "OBC conspiraceeeee!!!!!", the truth is very often a lot more boring. Chia is stupid, he does stupid things in trades.

He did it before Edmonton. Bruins fans told us he would do it again here. He did it again here.

It's not a conspiracy. Trading away superstar young players at below market value is a staple of Chiarelli's management style.

 

[harpoon]

You give him more credit than I do. I concede I soured on him so much so long ago that I don’t see that much positivity to his ownership, especially when it comes to what he thinks about the on ice product.

Yeah, it’s not so much me giving him credit, rather I’m just trying to look at it from what I feel his perspective might be. I was never a fan of Katz, said so from day one he bought the team. But the way he went along with or orchestrated or whatever the attempt to end Souray’s career for too much truth telling, that was where I lost respect for him the most. ‘We aren’t losing often enough guys, let’s grab the chance to send our best player to another teams farm system and have even worse special teams here in Edmonton. That’s another three or four guaranteed loses right there, am I right Kevin’.

Still he has stabilized the franchise from a financial point of view. There is a new arena and other various improvements to downtown Edmonton that I saw when visiting the city earlier this year. It’s not nothing.

I just hope if he does fire people he fires Nicholson too. That guy has got to be the definition of useless.

 

[rboomercat90]

Yeah, it’s not so much me giving him credit, rather I’m just trying to look at it from what I feel his perspective might be. I was never a fan of Katz, said so from day one he bought the team. But the way he went along with or orchestrated or whatever the attempt to end Souray’s career for too much truth telling, that was where I lost respect for him the most. ‘We aren’t losing often enough guys, let’s grab the chance to send our best player to another teams farm system and have even worse special teams here in Edmonton. That’s another three or four guaranteed loses right there, am I right Kevin’.

Still he has stabilized the franchise from a financial point of view. There is a new arena and other various improvements to downtown Edmonton that I saw when visiting the city earlier this year. It’s not nothing.

I just hope if he does fire people he fires Nicholson too. That guy has got to be the definition of useless.

Nicholson has clearly been a failure here. No more than just a guy to put in front of the cameras because nobody else could do it properly. In hindsight I wonder if his hiring was just a retirement gift after all those years in Hockey Canada.

 

[rboomercat90]

0 chance Kevin Lowe would OK trading Taylor Hall. That was actually probably an example of where the OBC could have helped. Give away a Taylor Hall who wants to be in Edmonton after you've grovelled at the feet of Pronger's wife, Hossa, Heatley? The first no.1 overall in the franchise? The proud wearer of Lowe's no.4, sanctioned by Lowe himself? No way.

That's all Chiarelli's hubris, he did the same exact stupid thing with Seguin. Hall had to go because Lucic gave Chia the wink, wink he was gonna sign in Edmonton. Once that was clear, Hall was gone.

It's easy to want to blame everything on a "OBC conspiraceeeee!!!!!", the truth is very often a lot more boring. Chia is stupid, he does stupid things in trades.

He did it before Edmonton. Bruins fans told us he would do it again here. He did it again here.

It's not a conspiracy. Trading away superstar young players at below market value is a staple of Chiarelli's management style.

My bad. I know better than to get involved in a management discussion where Chiarelli’s name comes up with you. I’ll bow out here.

 

[Soundwave]

My bad. I know better than to get involved in a management discussion where Chiarelli’s name comes up with you. I’ll bow out here.

Lowe/Mac T are a lot of things, but gifting away high end players who want to be here isn't one of them. Not after the years of suffering and losing Weight, Comrie, Pronger, etc. for reasons out of their control and have to be lowered to begging good players to come here, no way would they green light such a trade.

 

[FlameChampion]

This team struggles in every area that’s heavily dependent on coaching. Special teams, systems play and matchups. The only offense we have is what McDavid creates with his speed. That’s on coaching. You can criticize the roster all you want but it’s impossible to have a perfect roster in a cap system. What you need is a coach that can get the most out of what he has and devise systems to cover weaknesses. Not only does Mclellan fail miserably at that, there isn’t any evidence that he recognizes that he needs to do it. He does the same things game in and game out whether they’re working or not.

Chiarelli hasn’t done a very good job. I don’t think he’ll be here much longer. IMO, Mclellan has been even worse because he hasn’t shown any ability to adapt to anything. I don’t think he’s gotten enough criticism. The media left him alone last year when they should have been questioning everything from his stubbornness to him being just as disinterested in the games as his players were.

I pretty much agree. When I look at the Oilers I see a team that should be a #3 - wildcard team. The fact that this team was a bottom ten team is more on McLellan. He hasn’t shown the ability to motivate, adapt or get the most out of his line up.

But Chiarelli hasn’t done a good job either. If he had made better decisions and won more trades than this would be a #1 or 2 team in the division.

Both have done a poor job and honestly I don’t see either as part of the solution but I personally think Mclellan has more impact on the current state of affairs. That being said Chiarelli has more impact on the future and him trying to make decisions to save his job and hurt the teams future scares me.