Karlsson joins Burns in SJ - A look at the best offensive defensemen tandems since 2005-2006

Dump and Chase Demon

Registered User
Sep 14, 2018
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Sweden
Warning : long post

Hello! A few months ago, after the trade was announced, I posted to discuss how Burns-Karlsson would compare to the great offensive defensemen tandems of the past decades.

A Norris winner joining another Norris winner, both still technically in their "prime", had not been seen for a while.

So I've decided to dig deeper a little deeper and take a look at the stats. Which teams had aligned 2 offensively dominating defensemen and what was the outcome?

Disclaimer 1 : By "tandem"/"duo", I do not necessarily mean "pairing". I simply mean same team.

Disclaimer 2 : I do not claim this is a complete, in depth analysis! It does not include advanced stats, nor "pure defensive habilities", not even the eye test is taken into consideration. I just looked at traditional stats such as point-per-game (ppg), points (pts), +/-, power play points (ppp) and shots on goal (sog). If you take this make the post irrelevant, do not waste your time and read further :)

At first I started the timeframe in 1993-1994, but then decided to start at the 2005-2006 season. I thought it would be more relevant to compare "similar eras". That means we are missing some of the prime years of the great Bourque, Leetch, Niedermayer, Pronger, Zubov, MacInnis, Blake, Chelios, Coffey, Suter...they did put up some impressive numbers between 1993-1994 and 2005-2006!

Criterias :
  • The defensemen listed below must have had played more than 66 games with the team during the season
  • Minimum top 20 in points-per-game (ppg) amongst defensemen
  • Minimum 0.55 ppg individually, minimum 0.65 ppg combined (0.65 ppg roughly equals 53 points on a 82 games schedule)
  • Sometimes I wasn't so strict on criteria for the sake of the context


2005-2006

Norris : N. Lidstrom 1.00 ppg (DET)
Art Ross : Joe Thornton 1.54 ppg (BOS/SJ)

Best individual offensive season by DEF :
N. Lidstrom (DET) 80:16+64=80pts 1.00ppg (1st DEF, 31st NHL), +21, 50 ppp (6th NHL), 243 sog

Best duo : DET
N. Lidstrom 80:16+64=80pts 1.00ppg (1st DEF, 31st NHL), +21, 50 ppp (6th NHL), 243 sog
M. Schneider 72:21+38=59pts 0.82 ppg (5th DEF), +33, 29 ppp, 188 sog
Totals : 0.90 ppg, +54, 79ppp, 431 sog
DET finishes 1st WEST / Eliminated in the 1st round

HM : TOR
B. McCabe 73:19+49=68pts 0.91 ppg (2nd DEF), -1, 45 ppp, 207 sog
T. Kaberle 82:9+58=67pts 0.82 ppg (6th DEF), -1, 51 ppp, 167 sog
Totals : 0.87 ppg, -2, 96 ppp (!!!) 374 sog
TOR Out of playoffs

2006-2007

Norris : Lidstrom 0.78 ppg (DET)
Art Ross : Crosby 1.52 ppg (PIT)
Best individual offensive season by DEF :
C. Pronger (ANA) 66:13+46=59pts 0.89 ppg (1st DEF, 51st NHL), +27, 36 ppp, 166 sog

Best duo: ANA
C. Pronger 66:13+46=59 0.89 ppg (1st DEF, 51st NHL), +27, 36 ppp, 166 sog
S. Niedermayer 79:15+54=69 0.87 ppg (2nd DEF), +6, 34 ppp, 172 sog
Totals : 0.84ppg, +33, 70 ppp, 338 sog
ANA finishes 2nd WEST / ***Wins the Stanley Cup***

HM - none

2007-2008

Norris : Lidstrom 0.92 ppg (DET)
Art Ross : Ovechkin 1.37 ppg (WSH)
Best individual offensive season by DEF :
N. Lidstrom (DET) 76:10+60=70pts 0.92 ppg (1st DEF, 30th NHL), +40, (2nd NHL), 34 ppp (3rd DEF, 12th NHL), 188 sog

Best duo : DET
N. Lidstrom 76:10+60=70pts 0.92 ppg (1st DEF, 30th NHL), +40, (2nd NHL), 34 ppp (3rd DEF, 12th NHL), 188 sog
B. Rafalski 73:13+42=55pts 0.75 ppg (4th DEF), +27, 31 ppp, 175 sog
Totals : 0.84 ppg, +67, 65 ppp, 363 sog
DET finishes 1st WEST / ***wins the Stanley Cup***

HM : MTL

M. Streit* (0.77 ppg, 3rd DEF) and A. Markov (0.71 ppg, 7th DEF)
Totals : 0.74 ppg, -5, 66 ppp, 310 sog
MTL finishes 1st EAST / eliminated 2nd round
*Streit was used frequently as a forward...

2008-2009

Norris: Chara 0.63 ppg (BOS)
Art Ross : Malkin 1.39 ppg (PIT)
Best individual offensive season by DEF :
M. Green (WSH) 68:31+42=73pts 1.07 ppg (1st DEF, 10th NHL), +24, 38 ppp (7th NHL), 243 sog

Best duo :

DET
B. Rafalski 78:10+49=59pts 0.76 ppg (4h DEF), +17, 28 ppp, 141 sog
N. Lidstrom 78:16+43=59pts 0.76 ppg (5th DEF), +31, 33 ppp, 180 sog
Totals : 0.76 ppg, +48, 61 ppp, 321 sog
DET finishes 2nd WEST / ***makes it to the Stanley Cup finals***

HM : none

2009-2010

Norris: D. Keith 0.84 ppg (CHI)
Art Ross: H. Sedin 1.37 ppg (VAN)
Best individual offensive season by DEF :
M. Green (WSH) 75:19+57=76pts 1.01 ppg (1st DEF, 17th NHL), +39 (3rd NHL), 35 ppp (7th NHL), 205 sog


Best duo : CHI

D. Keith 82:14+55=69pts 0.84 ppg (2nd DEF), +21, 16 ppp, 213 sog
B. Campbell 68:7+31=38pts 0.56 ppg (17th DEF), +18, 11 ppp, 131 sog
Totals : 0.71 ppg, +39, 27 ppp, 344 sog
CHI finished 2nd WEST / ***Wins the Stanley Cup***

HM - none

2010-2011 - Karlsson's offensive production breakthrough

Norris : Lidstrom 0.76 ppg (DET)
Art Ross : D. Sedin 1.29 ppg (VAN)
Best individual offensive season by DEF :
L. Visnovsky (ANA) 81:18+50=68pts 0.84 ppg (1st DEF, 36th NHL), +18, 31 ppp (8th NHL), 152 sog

Best duo

DET
B. Rafalski 63:4+44=48pts 0.76 ppg (2nd DEF), +11, 17 ppp, 106 sog
N. Lidstrom 82:16+46=62pts 0.76 ppg (3rd DEF), -2, 39 ppp, 175 sog
Totals : 0.76 ppg, 56 ppp, +9, 281 sog
DET finishes 3rd WEST / out in the 2nd round

HM - ATL
Enstrom (0.71 ppg, 5th DEF) and Byfuglien (0.65ppg, 12th DEF)
Totals : 0.68 ppg, 52 ppg, -12, 460 sog
ATL Out of playoffs

2011-2012 - Burns traded to SJ

Norris: Karlsson 0.96 ppg (OTT)
Art Ross : Malkin 1.45 ppg (PIT)
Best individual offensive season by DEF :
E. Karlsson (OTT) 81:19+59=78pts 0.96 ppg (1st DEF, 13th NHL), +16, 28 ppp, 261 sog

Best duo : ATL
D. Byfuglien 66:12+41=53pts 0.80 ppg (2nd DEF), -8, 19 ppp, 223 sog
T. Enstrom 62:6=27=33pts 0.53 ppg (17th DEF), +6, 11 ppp, 98 sog
Totals : 86 pts, 0.67 ppg, -2, 30 ppp, 321 sog
ATL Out of playoffs

HM : NSH
S. Weber (0.63 ppg, 6th DEF) and R. Suter (0.58 ppg, 9th DEF)
Totals : 95 pts, 0.61 ppg, +36, 47 ppp, 368 sog
NSH 4th WEST / 2nd round exit

2012-2013 - 48 games season

Norris: Subban 0.90 ppg (MTL)
Art Ross : St-Louis 1.25 ppg (TB)
Best individual offensive season by DEF :
K. Letang (PIT) 35:5+33=39 pts 1.09 ppg (1st DEF,9th NHL), +16, 13 ppp, 95 sog

Best duo: MTL
Subban 42:11+27=38 pts 0.90 ppg (2nd DEF, 29th NHL), +12, 26 ppp (3rd NHL) 126 sog
Markov 48:10+20=30 pts 0.63 ppg (8th DEF), -9, 23 ppp (4th NHL), 79 sog
Totals : 68 pts, 0.76 ppg, +3, 49 ppp, 205 sog
MTL 2nd EAST / 1st round exit

HM : none

2013-2014 - Burns and Karlsson now both dominating offensive defenseman

Norris: Keith 0.77 ppg (CHI)
Art Ross : Crosby 1.30 (PIT)
Best individual offensive season by DEF :
E. Karlsson (OTT) 82:20+54=74pts 0.90 ppg (1st DEF, 23rd NHL), -15, 31 ppp (6th NHL), 257 sog
For the record :
Burns (SJ) 69:22+26=48pts 0.70 ppg (7th DEF), +26, 11 ppp, 245 sog


Best duo : NSH
Weber : 79:23+33=56pts 0.71 ppg (6th DEF), -2, 26 ppp, 195 sog
Josi : 72:13+27=40pts 0.56 ppg (18th DEF), -2, 13 ppp, 168 sog
Totals : 0.64 ppg, -4, 39 ppp, 363 sog
NSH Out of playoffs

HM : none

2014-2015

Norris: Karlsson 0.80 ppg (OTT)
Art Ross : Jamie Benn 1.06 ppg (DAL)
Best individual offensive season by DEF :
E. Karlsson (OTT) 82:21+45=66pts 0.80 ppg (1st DEF, 36th NHL), +7, 30 ppp (9th NHL), 292 sog
For the record :
Burns (SJ) 82:17+43=60 pts (0.73 ppg, 5th DEF), -9, 24 ppp, 245 sog

Best duo : CGY
M. Giordano 61:11+37=48pts 0.79 ppg (2nd DEF), +13, 14 ppp, 157 sog
D. Wideman 80:15+41=56pts 0.70 ppg (7th DEF), +6, 21 ppp, 173 sog
Totals : 0.74 ppg, +19, 35 ppp, 330 sog
CGY 3rd Pacific (8th seed WEST in pts) / 2nd round exit

HM : MTL
Subban (0.73 ppg, 5th DEF) and A. Markov (0.62 ppg, 16th DEF)
Totals : 0.68 ppg, +43, 46 ppp, 355 sog
MTL 1st Atlantic (2nd seed EAST in pts) / 2nd round exit

2015-2016

Norris : Doughty 0.62 ppg, 15th NHL
Art Ross : P. Kane 1.29 ppg
Best individual offensive season by DEF :
E. Karlsson 82:16+66=82pts 1.00 ppg (1st DEF, 6th NHL), -2, 26 ppp, 248 sog

Burns 82:27+48=75pts 0. 91 ppg (3rd DEF, 16th NHL), -5, 30 ppp (3rd NHL), 353 sog (2nd NHL)

Best duo

NSH
Josi 81:14+47=61 pts 0.75ppg (5th DEF), -3, 24 ppp, 198 sog
Weber 78:20+31=51 pts 0.65 ppg (11th DEF), -7, 26 ppp, 189 sog
Totals : 112 pts, 0.70 ppg, -10, 50 ppp, 387 sog
Wild card EAST / 2nd round exit

HM
CGY
Brodie (0.64 ppg, 13th DEF) & Giordano (0.68 ppg, 10th DEF)
Totals : 0.66 ppg, 101 pts, -1, 28 ppp, 291 sog
CGY Out of playoffs

2016-2017

Norris : Burns 0.93 ppg (SJ)
Art Ross : McDavid 1.22 ppg (EDM)
Best individual offensive season by DEF :
B. Burns (SJ) : 82:29+47=76pts 0.93 ppg (1st DEF, 13th NHL), +19, 25 ppp, 320 sog (1st NHL)
For the record :
E. Karlsson (OTT) : 77:17+54=71pts 0.92 ppg (2nd DEF, 14th NHL), +10, 27 ppp, 218 sog

Best duo : NSH
Josi 72:12+37=49pts 0.68ppg (5th DEF), +7, 18 ppp, 217 sog
Subban 66:10+30=40pts 0.61 ppg (12th DEF), -8, 16 ppp, 142 sog
Totals : 0.65 ppg, -1, 34 ppp, 359 sog
NSH Wild card EAST / ***makes it to the SC finals***

HM - STL
Shattenkirk* (0.69ppg; 4th DEF) and Pietrangelo (0.60ppg, 14th DEF)
Totals : 0.64 ppg, 39 ppp, -8, 296 sog
STL 3td central WEST, 2nd round exit
* played 61 games with STL before traded to WAS; played the playoffs with WAS)

2017-2018

Norris: Hedman 0.82 ppg (TB)
Art Ross : McDavid 1.32 (EDM)
Best individual offensive season by DEF :
E. Karlsson (OTT) 71:9+53=62pts 0.87 ppg (1st DEF, 47th NHL), -25, 18 ppp, 196 sog
For the record :
Burns (SJ) 82:12+55=67pts 0.82 ppg (6th DEF), -16, 27 ppp, 332 sog

Best duo : NSH
Subban 82:16+43=59pts 0.72 ppg (11th DEF), +18, 25 ppp, 207 sog
Josi 75:14+39=53pts 0.71 ppg (12th DEF), +24, 20 ppp, 253 sog
Totals : 0.72 ppg, +42, 45 ppp, 460 sog
NSH 1st WEST / 2nd round exit

HM - TOR
Rielly (0.68 ppg, 14th DEF), GArdiner (0.63 ppg, 19th DEF)
Totals : 0.66 ppg, +5, 40 ppp, 315 sog
TOR 3rd Atlantic (5th EAST in pts) / 1st round exit

Observations :

In the past 13 years, the team that had the best offensive defensemen tandem :
-did not make the playoffs : 2 times out of 13 (16%)
-made playoffs : 11 times out of 13 (84%)
-finished top 3 in conference : 8 times out of 13 (62%)
-made it to the SC finals : 5 times out of 13 (39%)
-won the SC cup : 3 times out of 13 (23%)

Since 13 years, the best offensive defensemen tandem usually makes it with a combined 0.70-0.75 point-per-game average, 40-45 power play points and 375ish shots on goal.

I know Karlsson is having a tough start, but if both Karlsson and Burns maintain their averages from the past 3 years, they should easily be the best tandem. Even with a drop of 10-12% in production they should make it, unless an unexpected pairing pops up (Ekholm-Josi /Suter-Dumba maybe?)

San Jose is also having a tough start collectively but aligning the best offensive defensive tandem gives them, in theory, a strong shot at a solid post-season berth/Stanley Cup finals.
 

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