[Karlsson|Bergeron] Who is more valuable?

Who is more valuable ?


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    302

talitintti

Registered User
Oct 13, 2018
877
798
Hahaha. Karlsson is a detriment to his team as his terrible +/- proves. Inb4 advanced stats from people that don't understand anything about the game. Seeing Karlsson do bad decisions that lead to goals against again, again and again is much more meaningful than any f***ing corsi.

Bergeron in a complete landslide. He might just be the best player in the league or top 2 after Crosby.
 
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HanSolo

DJ Crazy Times
Apr 7, 2008
96,405
30,656
Las Vegas
Karlsson is not only the best offensive dman but also the best defensive dman so this is one of the rare cases of Karlsson AINEC.
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HanSolo

DJ Crazy Times
Apr 7, 2008
96,405
30,656
Las Vegas
Hahaha. Karlsson is a detriment to his team as his terrible +/- proves. Inb4 advanced stats from people that don't understand anything about the game. Seeing Karlsson do bad decisions that lead to goals against again, again and again is much more meaningful than any ****ing corsi.

Bergeron in a complete landslide. He might just be the best player in the league or top 2 after Crosby.
And what is McDavid?


Also, you didn't just spite people for not understanding the game while leading off with +/- as a reference did you?

No I must be reading that wrong because only people that don't understand the game think that +/-, especially across a small sample, is the be all end all measure of defensive ability.
 

CanadienShark

Registered User
Dec 18, 2012
37,357
10,609
Karlsson when they're both at their best. Bergeron is more consistent. Toss up, but I'll homer vote for the more dynamic ability to take over a game.
 
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CanadienShark

Registered User
Dec 18, 2012
37,357
10,609
You are not wrong. I think that all play a different game than Karlsson that makes thems more valuable in playoffs but it’s entirely possible that I am underestimating EK defensive capabilities.

On a smaller scale, I take Ghost to win a game in February but I rather have Couturier or Provorov to win a playoffs series.
While I see your point - Karlsson isn't any of those guys defensively - I think he showed a level in the 2017 playoffs that no defender, save himself, is capable of.
 
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Broad Street Buddies

Registered User
Jun 16, 2018
667
1,350
Montréal
While I see your point - Karlsson isn't any of those guys defensively - I think he showed a level in the 2017 playoffs that no defender, save himself, is capable of.
I have to agree, that was unreal!

He could be the missing piece that you guys were looking for to make it all the way. I hope that it works well for him in SJ and if it doesn’t, please trade him to Philly. Please.
 
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Agent Zub

Registered User
Jan 2, 2015
14,424
11,713
You are not wrong. I think that all play a different game than Karlsson that makes thems more valuable in playoffs but it’s entirely possible that I am underestimating EK defensive capabilities.

On a smaller scale, I take Ghost to win a game in February but I rather have Couturier or Provorov to win a playoffs series.

oh come now. Karlsson had one of the most dominant nhl playoff performances in recent history.

i just don't understand this criticism.
 
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Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Oct 30, 2008
61,474
60,897
I.E.
Karlsson when they're both at their best. Bergeron is more consistent. Toss up, but I'll homer vote for the more dynamic ability to take over a game.

Totally fair evaluation.


oh come now. Karlsson had one of the most dominant nhl playoff performances in recent history.

i just don't understand this criticism.

The criticism is that 'peak Karlsson' existed for less than 20 games yet that's what people default to in their evaluations of him. "He's the best d-man AINEC" gets the benfit of "well, he's not fully healthy" "well, he's just a slow starter" "well, his team sucks" ad nauseum. It's fair to question his consistency versus Bergeron's in what is a weird comparison anyway as that's one of the only concrete terms.
 

Jwec

Registered User
Dec 21, 2015
2,879
862
Finland
Depends really the team they are playing. For the Sharks, Karlsson is not as important than Bergeron would be if Bergy would play for the Sharks. But on the other hand for Ottawa Karlsson were much more important than Bergeron ever have been for the Bruins.
 

ChiTownPhilly

Not Too Soft
Feb 23, 2010
2,095
1,381
AnyWorld/I'mWelcomeTo
Bergeron has modern-day peers... and they're good players [Kopitar, Toews kinda/sorta]

Karlsson has historical peers... and they're great players [Leetch is a strong comparable, were it not for Karlsson's speed-bump season last year.] So- unless Karlsson's hiccup turns into a Langway-esque Swan Dive, I'll favor Karlsson.
 
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Agent Zub

Registered User
Jan 2, 2015
14,424
11,713
Totally fair evaluation.




The criticism is that 'peak Karlsson' existed for less than 20 games yet that's what people default to in their evaluations of him. "He's the best d-man AINEC" gets the benfit of "well, he's not fully healthy" "well, he's just a slow starter" "well, his team sucks" ad nauseum. It's fair to question his consistency versus Bergeron's in what is a weird comparison anyway as that's one of the only concrete terms.

peak karlsson didn't exist for only 20 games lol. he was doing what he was doing in the playoffs all season.

and Karlsson has 2 Norris and finished 2nd twice despite having 2 seasons wiped out by injuries. Karlssons "non-peak" is still better than 98% of the league.

he's just held to a higher standard than other players.
 
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