Kap or A-Jo?

Discussion in 'Toronto Maple Leafs' started by ThatsSoSlavin, Feb 10, 2019.

?

Kapanen vs Johnsson

  1. Kapenan

    78.1%
  2. Johnsson

    21.9%
  1. kb

    kb Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,152
    Likes Received:
    913
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Muzzin effect - he has a real partner who can defend. In any event, it's a kinda small sample size to make any real conclusions from yet.
     
  2. dsred

    dsred Babcock Gonna Babcock, Dubas gonna Dubas.

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    2,980
    Likes Received:
    1,774
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Absolutely. This makes him an even better trade chip in the offseason IF you have to.
     
    kb likes this.
  3. SoCal Leafs

    SoCal Leafs Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    86
    Trophy Points:
    23
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    So Cal
    Tough call. I like Kappy's game better and he's effective on PK. But he probably brings back more in a trade, will probably cost more to re-sign , and we already have a surplus of good RH-shooting forwards. I suppose it depends on what kind of return we can get back. If we can get a NHL-ready RHD or 2-way forward, keep Mango. If we're getting back a draft pick or offensive-minded forward keep Kappy.
     
  4. Gary Nylund

    Gary Nylund Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2013
    Messages:
    16,426
    Likes Received:
    4,634
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Trade elite talent do keep lesser ones, WTF? You're all over the place here, not sure what we're talking about any more.

    I'm not the one talking about trading anyone, in fact all I said was that one of the reasons Kadri isn't likely to be traded is our lack of depth at centre, you responded by saying "lack of depth"? Yes, lack of depth is one of the reasons that Kadri is IMO one of the least likely players to be traded that we have. There are others such as he is one of the few that we have who plays with an edge to his game which will be badly needed at playoff time and his contract is a bargain.

    I understand that Rielly is left-handed but going from there to "trade Kadri" is a very strange leap to make. Don't hold your breath, it's not likely to happen for the reasons I have listed.
     
  5. Gary Nylund

    Gary Nylund Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2013
    Messages:
    16,426
    Likes Received:
    4,634
    Trophy Points:
    156
    delete, duplicate
     
  6. zeke

    zeke #FireBabcock

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    49,249
    Likes Received:
    8,184
    Trophy Points:
    201
    False, bobo.
     
    ThatsSoSlavin likes this.
  7. Sherpaderp

    Sherpaderp Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2019
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Gender:
    Male
    Yea, for sure. I don't get the hate he gets. Did people think he would sit that long and then be able to jump right back in with them? Ridiculous
     
    saffronleaf likes this.
  8. kb

    kb Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,152
    Likes Received:
    913
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Well, then reread you post and see what I was referencing. You don't trade Matthews to keep Kadri in the fold, as your prior post said (and I know it was being facetious), or my example of trading Marner to keep Kapanen. You trade the Kapanen's and the Kadri's first. Please don't think either is an elite talent, they aren't.

    There is no "lack of depth" at C. Why do you keep saying this? The Leafs have 2 elite C's. You can trade Kadri and not bat an eye, providing you being in a solid, serviceable cheap replacement. Least year everyone wanted Bozak gone at the deadline which would have left the Leafs with waaay weaker depth. Pitts won cups with a revolving door of #3C's once they traded Staal and other cup teams did too. You just need a solid, unspectacular guy there. And as far as his "edge" goes, did the Leafs win a thing yet with Kadri in the lineup? No. Did he excel? No. Was he a difference maker? Other than the odd hit that did absolutely nothing to impact the scoresheet, I would say no as well.

    Tampa has a rookie, Calgary has Jankowski, San Jose has the corpse of Thornton, Winnipeg has Little and Lowry as 2 and 3. What happens if Schiefele goes down?

    Name the 3rd line centres on the Chicago, Boston, or LA cup teams? And what happens to any of those teams if their 1st line C goes down in the playoffs?

    I never said "Handedness matters, so trade Kadri." I said we are weak on the RD, handedness matters, and that needs to be addressed by adding true RD to the team. Whether it is by trading Gardiner, Kadri, Kapanen, Johnsson, picks, prospects, etc - I don't care. I care about the name on the front of the jersey far more than the name on the back, which is a real source of consternation for some. I mentioned Kadri is one who may have tremendous value to other teams looking for a #2C on a great contract, which might outweigh his value as a #3C TO THE LEAFS. You are obfuscating for no reason, and I think it is best that we not continue this discourse on this particular subject.

    For the record, I'm not holding my breath - I don't care WHO gets traded, or even IF anyone gets traded. If people can't even entertain the thought of Kadri being traded TO HELP THE TEAM, I would say that's a sign of much bigger underlying issues at play here.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019 at 8:44 PM
  9. kb

    kb Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,152
    Likes Received:
    913
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Your stats showed it. The eye test showed it. He's not as comfortable, and making more errors in coverage. How is his GA/60 doing now since the move?

    He has a partner who historically has been better at driving play. So it has zero to do with Rielly moving to the right. That's bunk.
     
  10. Not My Tempo

    Not My Tempo Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2015
    Messages:
    2,055
    Likes Received:
    1,214
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Location:
    Toronto
    I honestly don’t understand how some of you can watch Nylander from 2016-2018, see him basically produce at a level that heavily implies he’s going to be a future superstar, and then let 1 month of bad play, and 1 month of unlucky play, convince you he’s the one you trade to make room for two middle six forwards.
     
  11. zeke

    zeke #FireBabcock

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    49,249
    Likes Received:
    8,184
    Trophy Points:
    201
    they showed him doing better
     
  12. FraumBallard

    FraumBallard Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2018
    Messages:
    194
    Likes Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    23
    Why not neither.
    I would prefer Moore/Jenner/Ferland/Reeves/Byfuglien/Manson/Tkachuk/Watson/Wilson/Martin/Etc...
    You get the idea.
    Give skill to get skill and toughness.
    AJ skates fast and is way soft.
    Kap is faster and just soft.
    Pass on both.
     
  13. kb

    kb Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,152
    Likes Received:
    913
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Meh. points rate is down, possession rates purely driven by the partner. He isn't doing better.
     
  14. Brownbeard

    Brownbeard Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Messages:
    623
    Likes Received:
    255
    Trophy Points:
    49
    Gender:
    Male
    I like Kap better, but both are good players who try hard and have lots of potential.
     
  15. TheCLAM

    TheCLAM Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    Messages:
    3,917
    Likes Received:
    122
    Trophy Points:
    81
    Location:
    Niagara Falls
    I would pick Kap
     
  16. Willchel Marlynder

    Willchel Marlynder (philer bozel)

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2010
    Messages:
    7,309
    Likes Received:
    686
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Location:
    Windsor, ON
    Don't you know AM took a super friendly deal. He could have commanded 14K for 8 years!
     
  17. saffronleaf

    saffronleaf Registered User

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    7,457
    Likes Received:
    2,269
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    I think people's views get distorted by characteristics that catch their eye. For Kapanen, it is speed -- you know when Kapanen is on the ice.

    Kapanen skating quickly north-south and taking a weak perimeter wrist shot is good stuff but it's just outrageous to say he's at Nylander's level right now. Nylander is destined to be a PPG superstar and plays a cerebral and elegant style.

    This happens all the time with other facets of the game, too. Wendel Clarke seemed to have more fans than Sundin because Wendel is very noticeable with his questionable 'stache and rock 'em sock 'em style. Sundin is more about proper positioning and using his size to protect puck possession. Sundin is no doubt the better player, but fans love Wendy.
     
  18. Menzinger

    Menzinger Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    23,305
    Likes Received:
    4,846
    Trophy Points:
    141
    Occupation:
    Professional Student
    Location:
    St. Paul, MN
    Because for a lot of folks it seems the last 1-15 games means more than anything.

    Look at the Matthews thread for another strange example
     
    kb, Not My Tempo and saffronleaf like this.
  19. Gary Nylund

    Gary Nylund Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2013
    Messages:
    16,426
    Likes Received:
    4,634
    Trophy Points:
    156
    You seem to obsessed with the idea of trading this guy or that guy, not sure why.

    We lack depth at centre after our top 3. You don't see it that way, hey good for you. As far as the team not winning "a thing" with Kadri gimme a break. If you want to judge a player by what the team has or hasn't done than we'll just disagree again, I guess next you'll want to trade Rielly because hey, we haven't won a thing with him, very logical.

    All I said was that our lack of depth at centre is one of several reasons why Kadri isn't likely to be traded, you were the one who went off from there into the Rielly tangent.

    And again with the name on the front as if you have exclusivity on feeling that way. And again with "can't entertain the thought of Kadri being traded" when I've said MANY times I'd trade anyone if it helps the team ... you either don't understand the plain English I've used to say what I think or you're pretending not to understand, either way this discussion is becoming a waste of time. I'd suggest we end this now but I have this sneaking suspicion that you a few more lengthy posts in you, I guess we'll see.
     
  20. kb

    kb Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,152
    Likes Received:
    913
    Trophy Points:
    109
    I am not obsessed with trading anybody - please read again. Again, I referenced the weakness on this team, which is RD. I also said that centre is NOT a weakness even if you trade your third line C to help address the RD. You clearly did not read or comprehend (I'm beginning to see a pattern here) that I said I feel that RD needs to be addressed in whatever manner management sees fit. Whether that is by trading players, prospects, picks, or a combination thereof.

    And for the love of god, please stop with the nonsensical strawman arguments (first Matthews, now Rielly??). I thought you were better than that, and above that. Sadly, it appears that I was completely wrong about that. It also appears your emotions on this subject are getting the best of you, because you cannot have a logical discussion when a certain name comes up (and ONLY that name). Even though you SAID that anyone is tradeable to make the team better, we both know that's not really true now, is it?

    We are done here.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019 at 6:44 AM
  21. GodEmperor

    GodEmperor Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2017
    Messages:
    2,920
    Likes Received:
    3,010
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Because we also saw his playoffs last year.

    We also saw how lazy and out of shape he was this year.

    We saw how awful he was for 1/3 of the NHL season.

    Nylander absolutely has the skillset to be a superstar, he like his family (father and brother) does not have the heart, oh and I hope he proves me wrong, but odds wise I don't see it.

    Matthews and Marner have made progress every year, Nylander made some progress last year and then had a massive regression this year, is that the making of a superstar? We were literally debating Marner v Nylander the first year, the fact that we're now debating Nylander v Kapanen and Johnsson shows you how far his play has fallen.
     
    socko likes this.
  22. ACC1224

    ACC1224 Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Messages:
    48,202
    Likes Received:
    4,275
    Trophy Points:
    231
    They're most likely considering the cap implication combined with the return a 'superstar' would generate.
    It's more to do with the crest on the front than the name on the back.
     
  23. Nithoniniel

    Nithoniniel Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    17,606
    Likes Received:
    8,229
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Skövde, Sweden
    You don't move out players like that for cap reasons. And if you look back at trades of young forwards with a history of high-end production, the majority of them look really, really bad now. We should learn from others mistake, not rush to emulate them.
     
  24. Not My Tempo

    Not My Tempo Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2015
    Messages:
    2,055
    Likes Received:
    1,214
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Location:
    Toronto
    1. You also saw his playoffs the year before though right?

    2. Yea he was. He didn’t practice with an NHL team for a couple months. He’s very clearly over it now though and looks back to form.

    3. You’re last point just shows how fickle this fan base is. At the start of last season this board was convince Nylander was better than Marner because Marner was going through his slump. And you know what, everything people are saying about Nylander now we heard about Marner 16 months ago.

    Lazy? Check
    Doesn’t go into the corners? Check
    Doesn’t win puck battles? Check

    People on this board wanted to trade him for a young D like Hanafin or Hamilton.

    He wasn’t good the first month, that’s it. After that he wasn’t scoring because of puck luck. I remember in 2011-2012 when Patrick Kane had his down year and Hawks fans were talking about trading him for Ryan Miller lol. Sports fans in general are way too volatile.
     
    saffronleaf and Nithoniniel like this.
  25. ACC1224

    ACC1224 Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Messages:
    48,202
    Likes Received:
    4,275
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Every trade is made with the cap in mind.
    Has there been another team with so many high priced young players in a cap world? This seems like uncharted territory.

    I don't think anyone is proposing to make a bad trade. You should do what's best for your team, consider all options and not worry about what other teams have done.
    No confidence in Dubas? You don't feel Nylander would generate an immense return?
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"