Kap or A-Jo?

[A1LeafNation]

Marleau has a NMC and Kadri has one of the better contracts.
Moving Nylander at his cap hit would have the biggest effect.

And in a couple years he will need an extension will be older and not have a discount contract.

Trading Nylander because of one year of Marleaus deal is not a good idea.

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

Kapanen at 69%



Nice.

 

[1specter]

IMO, AJ has better offensive instincts. His vision is better than Kapanen's and he is able to utilize his linemates better than Kapanen does as well, and he also has better hands in tight from what I've seen as well as a better shot. Kapanen is the superior defensive player though and his speed gives him that 'gamebreaker' component which AJ does not have. It's close.

Both are dogs on the puck.

 

[ACC1224]

And in a couple years he will need an extension will be older and not have a discount contract.

Trading Nylander because of one year of Marleaus deal is not a good idea.

I never said it was.
I didn't bring up Marleau at all.

 

[Mickey Marner]

I like Johnsson's scoring touch around the net and IQ, but we kinda' have a surplus of that. Kapanen has the length & speed combo which is more effective on the defensive end. The real life answer is to trade Brown who is easily the worst of the three.

 

[kb]

Excellent summary. Would only add that our lack of depth at centre is another reason Kadri won't be moved and I'm hoping they have something worked out with Marleau allowing us to move him. Other than that though, this is a perfect summary of the current state of affairs.

Lack of depth? If you move Kadri, it's for cap space (along with another C - preferably a top prospect that is NHL ready), or a RD. Kadri is just as movable as anyone, and carries tremendous value as a trade chip...which gets diminished the longer he plays 3rd fiddle, as he will be soon thought of as an overpriced 3rd line C instead of a very good #2 on an amazing contract (due to our current C situation).

Heck we have only one true NHL level RD, and he is the guy almost everyone can't wait to trade out of town. To me, that's even more bizarre.

Gotta stop worrying about the name on the back of the jersey, and concentrate on the name on the front of it.

 

[deletethis]

Dubas may have to trade one of them like it or not especially if Dubas wants to keep Nylander. They both seem to have up and down stretches. I think Kapanen stays more useful even in his down stretches. Johnsson looked like a marginal player in the first 10-15 games of this season before getting going. Kapanen never really looks marginal. Johnsson might score a little more in his career because he seems to have better offensive sense but Kapanen finds ways to produce. It seems to be Kapanen easily if you've got to choose.

 

[Mickey Marner]

not tampa's.

Tampa also has, like, 6 middle-sixers making 5+ next season, all of whom either have, or will have an NTC. At least our cap space is properly allocated and easy to move.

 

[Dale Gribble]

Keep both move Nylander.

If the Leafs could get Pesce and a pick out of Carolina, I think you may be onto something.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Lack of depth? If you move Kadri, it's for cap space (along with another C - preferably a top prospect that is NHL ready), or a RD. Kadri is just as movable as anyone, and carries tremendous value as a trade chip...which gets diminished the longer he plays 3rd fiddle, as he will be soon thought of as an overpriced 3rd line C instead of a very good #2 on an amazing contract (due to our current C situation).

Heck we have only one true NHL level RD, and he is the guy almost everyone can't wait to trade out of town. To me, that's even more bizarre.

Gotta stop worrying about the name on the back of the jersey, and concentrate on the name on the front of it.

Yes, lack of depth. We have 3 really good centres on our top 3 lines but after that, there's not much at all. We're pretty much perfectly set with our top 3 centres but trade Kadri and we'd have a huge hole at this very important position. Centre is such an important position, why would we want to mess with what we have there now?

As far as him soon being an overpriced 3rd line C goes, I'm surprised you're stating this out-on-a-limb prediction like it's a fact as I see no basis for this at all. He's nowhere close to being overpriced as far as I can tell, I'm not seeing this at all.

 

[zeke]

Tampa also has, like, 6 middle-sixers making 5+ next season, all of whom either have, or will have an NTC. At least our cap space is properly allocated and easy to move.

very true.

all i'm saying is that everyone seems worried about our defense, when if we're comparing to tampa, it's not dmen where we're lacking.

 

[IPS]

There is also advantages to playing your off-side as a winger. Pucks around the boards in your end are handled on the forehand. Blade of stick is to the inside when on offence making it easier to except passes for release to the net. Big issue, is passing is more from your backhand which is the biggest adjustment. Not sure what stats there are, but many goal scorers have played their off-wing. Ovie for one prefer his off wing.

If you got hands like Patrick Kane then manipulating defensemen coming into the zone to create more favorable shooting angles from your off-wing is like taking candy from a baby.

But if you're Kapanen who's hands are OK, he'll get the puck swatted off him every time. he doesn't have the skills to create good shooting angles nor pass effectively off his backhand.

The amount of people who say nylander smh. Dude's contract is going to be a steal especially the way the current RFA signings are going.

People should pay attention to the points he's gotten lately and how he's actually defeated his most common criticism of not going into the fight for pucks. A lot of his assists have come off staying strong on the puck, bodying off defenders and making the play.

There's so little avenue for criticism of this player the last stretch, he's been f***ing good. But I'm not shocked at all to see the names who are suggesting to trade him.

 

[kb]

Yes, lack of depth. We have 3 really good centres on our top 3 lines but after that, there's not much at all. We're pretty much perfectly set with our top 3 centres but trade Kadri and we'd have a huge hole at this very important position. Centre is such an important position, why would we want to mess with what we have there now?

As far as him soon being an overpriced 3rd line C goes, I'm surprised you're stating this out-on-a-limb prediction like it's a fact as I see no basis for this at all. He's nowhere close to being overpriced as far as I can tell, I'm not seeing this at all.

The fact of the matter is that this is a cap crunched team with arguably one true NHL RD, yet you are worried about moving our 3rd best C, and arguably best trading chip? RD is a very important position to have real NHL caliber players. Right now Rielly is being neutered a bit on his right just to fill that obvious void.

If we only had Matthews or Tavares, I wouldn't have even considered this for a split second.

As I say again, stop worrying about the name on the back of the jersey. That doesn't matter. At all. I want the strongest team, and he may provide the vehicle to be able to do so. He's not a #3C, he's far better than that. But there isn't a chance in hell he will ever be more than that here - ever

 

[HamiltonNHL]

How good has Kapanen played on the LW ?

 

[IPS]

How good has Kapanen played on the LW ?

I don't think Kapanen would be good at all on his off-wing. I believe he played a bit of LW in the AHL but I'm not sure what results he produced.

Nylander on the other hand - who's done excellent work at LW prior to the NHL - would be fantastic there.

 

[RLF]

If you got hands like Patrick Kane then manipulating defensemen coming into the zone to create more favorable shooting angles from your off-wing is like taking candy from a baby.

But if you're Kapanen who's hands are OK, he'll get the puck swatted off him every time. he doesn't have the skills to create good shooting angles nor pass effectively off his backhand.


People should pay attention to the points he's gotten lately and how he's actually defeated his most common criticism of not going into the fight for pucks. A lot of his assists have come off staying strong on the puck, bodying off defenders and making the play.

There's so little avenue for criticism of this player the last stretch, he's been ****ing good. But I'm not shocked at all to see the names who are suggesting to trade him.

I am not expecting Kap to be Kane. The point is, there are advantages to playing the off-wing and is not uncommon for players to do so. I think Kap has the speed and skill to play his off wing. Will he be Kane? Of course not. He would be fine though when playing with the talent the Leafs have to put him with.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The fact of the matter is that this is a cap crunched team with arguably one true NHL RD, yet you are worried about moving our 3rd best C, and arguably best trading chip? RD is a very important position to have real NHL caliber players. Right now Rielly is being neutered a bit on his right just to fill that obvious void.

If we only had Matthews or Tavares, I wouldn't have even considered this for a split second.

Maybe you're worrying too much about the "handedness" of our Dmen, I kind of like our D as it is now that we added Muzzin. I would also point out that most hockey players are left-handed so if this bothers you, I suggest you get over it.

Define "trade chip". As far as I'm concerned, every player is a trade chip. There's not a single player on the team I wouldn't trade if I thought id made sense for the team so to me, everyone's a trade chip.

As I say again, stop worrying about the name on the back of the jersey. That doesn't matter. At all. I want the strongest team, and he may provide the vehicle to be able to do so. He's not a #3C, he's far better than that. But there isn't a chance in hell he will ever be more than that here - ever

You keep saying that and frankly it's insulting. If trading Kadri made the team better I'd do it without a second thought and if you don't understand that then further discussion between us is pointless. But feel free to propose a trade involving Kadri that makes sense for both teams involved. You may have some trouble there but feel free to give it a shot.

I also don't see the problem with Kadri being "far better" than a #3C in the same way that I see no problem with our #2C being far better than a #2C, by this logic maybe if we can't find a trade for Kadri that makes sense we should trade Matthews?

 

[17 Clark]

Nylander is considerably better than both of them

People on this board have the memory of a gnat.

 

[Zizzzzy]

I guess it would all depend if the trade was a Kap dump or not...

 

[zeke]

Right now Rielly is being neutered a bit on his right just to fill that obvious void.

5v5 Adj

Rielly on the left: 49gms, 2.13p/60, 1.31p1/60, 50.6cf%, 51.7scf%
Rielly on the right: 6gms, 1.71p/60, 1.14p1/60, 54.2cf%, 54.7scf%

 

[MyBudJT]

If we can only keep one, you keep whoever is willing to sign for cheaper.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

The fact of the matter is that this is a cap crunched team with arguably one true NHL RD, yet you are worried about moving our 3rd best C, and arguably best trading chip? RD is a very important position to have real NHL caliber players. Right now Rielly is being neutered a bit on his right just to fill that obvious void.

If we only had Matthews or Tavares, I wouldn't have even considered this for a split second.

As I say again, stop worrying about the name on the back of the jersey. That doesn't matter. At all. I want the strongest team, and he may provide the vehicle to be able to do so. He's not a #3C, he's far better than that. But there isn't a chance in hell he will ever be more than that here - ever

If we're really all in on the "crest on the front vs. name on the back" thing, then our best trade chip is Nylander....especially after July 1st.

 

[Gary Nylund]

5v5 Adj

Rielly on the left: 49gms, 2.13p/60, 1.31p1/60, 50.6cf%, 51.7scf%
Rielly on the right: 6gms, 1.71p/60, 1.14p1/60, 54.2cf%, 54.7scf%

Yeah I'm not a big stat guy but I'd guess that Rielly's numbers would be affected much more by who he's playing with than which side he plays on.

If we're really all in on the "crest on the front vs. name on the back" thing, then our best trade chip is Nylander....especially after July 1st.

Yeah I thought of Nylander too but didn't say anything because there's something that bothers me about dividing our players into those that are trade chips and those who aren't. I mean I get that some players are more "trade chippy" than others but still, sometimes players get traded when you least expect it. As far as I'm concerned, I'd always listen to offers on anyone.

 

[kb]

Maybe you're worrying too much about the "handedness" of our Dmen, I kind of like our D as it is now that we added Muzzin. I would also point out that most hockey players are left-handed so if this bothers you, I suggest you get over it.

Define "trade chip". As far as I'm concerned, every player is a trade chip. There's not a single player on the team I wouldn't trade if I thought id made sense for the team so to me, everyone's a trade chip.



You keep saying that and frankly it's insulting. If trading Kadri made the team better I'd do it without a second thought and if you don't understand that then further discussion between us is pointless. But feel free to propose a trade involving Kadri that makes sense for both teams involved. You may have some trouble there but feel free to give it a shot.

I also don't see the problem with Kadri being "far better" than a #3C in the same way that I see no problem with our #2C being far better than a #2C, by this logic maybe if we can't find a trade for Kadri that makes sense we should trade Matthews?

First off, Rielly hasn't played as well on his off side. That is obvious, and making a Norris caliber D-man much less of a player because of "handedness" should be a very real concern to everyone. It is to me. And to Babcock.

Kadri is on a very good contract, but much like Kapanen, he's now blocked and had to take a lesser role. The Leafs have 33% of the cap tied up in the C position next year. Something may have to give. He was an absolute to keep prior to this season. By that same logic used, should the Leafs trade Marner to give Kapanen more icetime? No, you trade Kapanen first. Elite skill stays, the rest is movable.

I think that is a bit disingenuous. If you truly think that every player is a trade chip, why did me saying moving Kadri draw an immediate response from you? It shouldn't have required any response all if you truly believed what you just typed. Because we would have agreed on that point.

I suggested for a RD like Pesce, or futures + cap space, or a high end C prospect plus another useful player with add ons one way or the other based on the names involved. But I'm not Dubas. I know my personal feelings would be to keep Kadri if it works under the cap, but I'm not going to be upset if they trade him because they deem the return to be more valuable going forward.

I want a winner, and I don't care what players it takes to get the Leafs there. But the only universal truth is that you don't get there by trading elite talent to keep lesser ones.

 

[kb]

If we're really all in on the "crest on the front vs. name on the back" thing, then our best trade chip is Nylander....especially after July 1st.

I'll let the brass figure that out, and I won't shed a tear. But over the past 5-7 games he has probably been our best forward.