Kansas City Penguins?

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Little Wing

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jamiebez said:
I admire your values, but let's face it: any politician's first priority is getting votes. If this is the right bandwagon for Pittsburgh, any politician will hop on with both feet.

Just seems like the wrong agenda to base a campaign on. If this guy was in my market and this was one of his top priorities. I think i'd be pissed that he wasn't going after the heating and oil conglomerates and other top ticket issues rather than something so menial as a sports franchise. How much tax payers dollars can an issue of this magnitude extrude from where the monies are truly needed?
 

Little Wing

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Verbeek said:
If a town loses a pro team, it loses creditability as well as money and jobs. So this should be an issue mayors look at.


O.K. if it is an issue in PA. lets say, and if Portland or someone else is trying to lure this franchise away politically you now have two mayors who are not focusing on the domestic issues at hand. IMO. and wasting time on trivial matters. How deep is the political money cache's anyhow. Cause i'll be up front and tell you first hand, personally i'm sick and tired of paying for my share of $30,000 toilet seats and
big pow wow's at the governor's mansions when i can barely afford to get to work each week due to the escalating cost of fossil fuels and everything that has increased due to them. Ie Clothing, groceries, and anything else that has been trucked into JC penney or wherever
 

Jaded-Fan

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rocky hockey said:
Just seems like the wrong agenda to base a campaign on. If this guy was in my market and this was one of his top priorities. I think i'd be pissed that he wasn't going after the heating and oil conglomerates and other top ticket issues rather than something so menial as a sports franchise. How much tax payers dollars can an issue of this magnitude extrude from where the monies are truly needed?


How many jobs/tax revenue does a hockey team generate? At the arena? How about ancillary to those direct jobs and taxes such as hotels, restaurants, merchandise, and on and on and on for those 40 nights? Now factor in the additional uses that arena can be put to that the out-dated Mellon arena can not currently accomodate. There is another 40 nights or so I would bet.

Now add all that up and stir in the prestige a sports franchise brings a city and tell me what that politician would be better spending the relatively small part of his time lobbying for keeping all that in his backyard.
 

AdmiralPred

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Zack Attack said:
If they keep their attendance like the way it is...yes.
If the owner can still turn a profit while increasing the net worth of the franchise, I would think it stays put, if the ownership so chooses. I gather that given the Pred's situation, from talking to fans out here, that they can make money with just 10k or 11k fans.
 

AdmiralPred

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Jaded-Fan said:
How many jobs/tax revenue does a hockey team generate? At the arena? How about ancillary to those direct jobs and taxes such as hotels, restaurants, merchandise, and on and on and on for those 40 nights? Now factor in the additional uses that arena can be put to that the out-dated Mellon arena can not currently accomodate. There is another 40 nights or so I would bet.

Now add all that up and stir in the prestige a sports franchise brings a city and tell me what that politician would be better spending the relatively small part of his time lobbying for keeping all that in his backyard.
There are studies out there that figure this. What needs to be taken into account are alternative forms entertainment that the people would spend their money on and what kind of revenue that might generate for local businesses. If people aren't going to come to your community for hockey, will they still come to your community for other entertainment?
 

Little Wing

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Jaded-Fan said:
How many jobs/tax revenue does a hockey team generate? At the arena? How about ancillary to those direct jobs and taxes such as hotels, restaurants, merchandise, and on and on and on for those 40 nights? Now factor in the additional uses that arena can be put to that the out-dated Mellon arena can not currently accomodate. There is another 40 nights or so I would bet.

Now add all that up and stir in the prestige a sports franchise brings a city and tell me what that politician would be better spending the relatively small part of his time lobbying for keeping all that in his backyard.

Most of these hotel guests you speak of, only one or two hotels have the arena contracts so that doesn't hold any water ( i used to be an assistant GM of a large hotel chain in Denver) and only the hotels close to said arena are getting any of that revenue. Most teams share hotel rooms so you are talking 30 rooms maybe 40 times per season. That is not that much.
If pittsburgh thought having an NHL franchise was so lucrative, this discussion would not have come to light. As far as local jobs at the arena only about 600 people max are employed on any given night. a mere one hundred thousandth percent of a cities population, once again not gonna hold much water.
as you wish you asked what a politician can lobby for. How about safer drinking water, safer streets, a larger police force, a larger fire department, stopping Price gouging from local oil companies, Cleaner air pollution guidelines, a stronger stand against illegal aliens, Feeding the homeless, this list is never ending.
I'm saying that if a candidate wants to run his campaign on the basis of keeping a sports franchise in town, and that is what he is basing his election upon, i would vote for someone with a stronger political agenda than that. Point blank.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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Doctor No said:
Are they advertising it as a "hockey arena", or an "NHL arena"?

I don't see what's so "nervy" about calling it a hockey arena. I'm sure you'll enlighten us, though.

Doesn't Kansas City have such a facility now anyway isn't IT called Kemper Arena????

The NBA Kings went to Sacramento although they've been through the following Cities:

Rochester-Royals
Cincinnati-Royals
Omaha Kings
KC Kings

THEN we've had the NHL Scouts, the IHL Blades and even the UHL Outlaws blow through there :dunno: :confused: ;) :amazed:
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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AdmiralPred said:
I don't think so, at least not as long as Leipold owns the franchise. I think the author of that article is a regular on the relocation/contraction threads on HFBoards. *sarcasm*

Isn't Craig Leipold a native of Wisconsin, AP, and was rumored to be in the discussions to keep hockey in Milwaukee and it just so helps Nashville TO have their affiliate located there until the Brewers got involved to keep the Milwaukee Admirals in Milwaukee and not moved elsewhere??????
 

AdmiralPred

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CHRDANHUTCH said:
Doesn't Kansas City have such a facility now anyway isn't IT called Kemper Arena????

... :dunno: :confused: ;) :amazed:
Yeah, Kemper is and older facility and only seats a bit more than 16,000 for hockey according to Munsey and Suppes. It housed the basketball teams back in the mid 70's so it is at least that old, which is old by todays standards. Not to mention it probably doesn't have many modern ammenities which would make it difficult to attract major league sports teams to it.
 

AdmiralPred

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CHRDANHUTCH said:
Isn't Craig Leipold a native of Wisconsin, AP, and was rumored to be in the discussions to keep hockey in Milwaukee and it just so helps Nashville TO have their affiliate located there until the Brewers got involved to keep the Milwaukee Admirals in Milwaukee and not moved elsewhere??????
Point being?

But, to elaborate. The owner of the Crew has a minority stake in the Ads (along with pitcher Ben Sheets), which is nice because it did keep them in Milwaukee. Not sure what role Leipold played this past summer, but I know about a year or two ago when Jane Pettit passed away he wanted to make sure the team remaind in Milwaukee and was willing to help out. And yes, as I gather Leipold lives near Green Bay.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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AdmiralPred said:
Yeah, Kemper is and older facility and only seats a bit more than 16,000 for hockey according to Munsey and Suppes. It housed the basketball teams back in the mid 70's so it is at least that old, which is old by todays standards. Not to mention it probably doesn't have many modern ammenities which would make it difficult to attract major league sports teams to it.

That's the issue here

What does Leiweke intend to do with Kemper Arena once as well the Sprint Center opens Then what does AEG intend to fund new stadiums for the Royals/Chiefs to replace Kauffman and Arrowhead Stadiums also :shakehead
 

AdmiralPred

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rocky hockey said:
Most of these hotel guests you speak of, only one or two hotels have the arena contracts so that doesn't hold any water ( i used to be an assistant GM of a large hotel chain in Denver) and only the hotels close to said arena are getting any of that revenue. Most teams share hotel rooms so you are talking 30 rooms maybe 40 times per season. That is not that much.
If pittsburgh thought having an NHL franchise was so lucrative, this discussion would not have come to light. As far as local jobs at the arena only about 600 people max are employed on any given night. a mere one hundred thousandth percent of a cities population, once again not gonna hold much water.
as you wish you asked what a politician can lobby for. How about safer drinking water, safer streets, a larger police force, a larger fire department, stopping Price gouging from local oil companies, Cleaner air pollution guidelines, a stronger stand against illegal aliens, Feeding the homeless, this list is never ending.
I'm saying that if a candidate wants to run his campaign on the basis of keeping a sports franchise in town, and that is what he is basing his election upon, i would vote for someone with a stronger political agenda than that. Point blank.
I agree with your assesment as a tax payer and voter, but sometimes the public as a whole sees things differently at pole time(see Lambeau Field remodeling, and especially the Miller Park construction which involded some heavy politics). Both were political and both ended up with taxpayer funding.
 

AdmiralPred

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CHRDANHUTCH said:
That's the issue here

What does Leiweke intend to do with Kemper Arena once as well the Sprint Center opens Then what does AEG intend to fund new stadiums for the Royals/Chiefs to replace Kauffman and Arrowhead Stadiums also :shakehead
Who does what with the Kemper or the other sports venues, that's a question for those who follow those teams. Does Anschutz have any interest in the football or baseball stadiums?
 
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Little Wing

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AdmiralPred said:
I agree with your assesment as a tax payer and voter, but sometimes the public as a whole sees things differently at pole time(see Lambeau Field remodeling, and especially the Miller Park construction which involded some heavy politics). Both were political and both ended up with taxpayer funding.


Truly i can't argue with these facts, they are well documented. Just styfles me to think that sports and politics make for good bed fellows. We are as a society far from where we need to be if politicians are running with these ideas over huge domestic issues.
If this is a top priority than i fear for the people who are in need of solid legislation in their home regions. This is miniscule in the overall realm of things that are at hand in this new mellenium. It pales in comparison to what these candidates need to be focusing on.
And what makes Pittsburgh a better sports market than say Portland or Milwaukee or Kansas City? The Pirates have a nice new home and every time i watch a game from there, the place is empty. Why isn't the NBA in Pittsburgh? Why are the Penguins struggling? Who is going to pay for a new arena? Why is a new arena such a must have? Because other markets have them is that why the Pens need one?
 

Little Wing

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On another note:

When Denver lost the Rockies to New Jersey, It didn't cripple the local economy. Governor Lamb didn't lobby to have the team stay in Denver, He had much more pressing issues to deal with. Like funding for public schools and keeping the oil tycoons based in the city. Bringing in more high tech businesses and wider roads for the population explosion. Annexing land for future development. And as it turned out when Denver was ready to house another NHL team they brought in the Nordiques, It may have taken 14 years but you can't always get what you want, but if you vote right you'll find you get what you need.
 

Foppa

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CHRDANHUTCH said:
That's the issue here

What does Leiweke intend to do with Kemper Arena once as well the Sprint Center opens Then what does AEG intend to fund new stadiums for the Royals/Chiefs to replace Kauffman and Arrowhead Stadiums also :shakehead

AEG has nothing to do with Kemper. It has completely different ownership. The city will have to decide what to do with it...most likely it will continue as a full-time home for the American Royal and continue to host concerts/events that do not require the Sprint Center or are occuring on days when the Sprint Center is booked.

Kemper Arena is a sh!thole by modern standards with a bad location...the Sprint Center is seen by the city not only as a needed money producer (more concerts/conventions/events plus the NCAA Basketball Hall of Fame in it) but as one of several centerpieces of a major CBD redevelopment project. A new arena has been on the boards for a long, long time...long before AEG got involved. But for a long time the city simply had no vision and instead invested tens of millions into renovating Kemper which was a complete waste. AEG just happened to step up to the plate when funding was needed and Leiweke has local ties to the area.

As a denizen of Kansas City, the greedy selfish side of me fully hopes we get an NHL team and I really do believe it can be successful here. But I'm certainly aware and empathetic to the plight of Pens/Canes/Preds/etc... fans who have to put up with non-stop falsehoods and rumors about their franchises/cities. After all, I'm a Royals fan also.
 

Firefighter Havok

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I'm sorry, this thread isn't feasable. The pens will never leave Pittsburgh. Mario is god here. What he says happens or has a habit of happening in a short period of time. With the Kid here, for once Pittsburgh has once again become the center of the NHL community. Why on god's green earth wouldn't the city of pittsburgh do everything they can to keep them here?

A move to K.C. would be a bad one. I have lived in Missouri. I know what the top 3 sports are there....Football, Baseball, College Basketball. Unless, your on the Eastern side of the state, Hockey is up there in the Lou.

The track record on hockey teams in K.C. are horrible. It would be a bad move since they haven't drawn a sellout crowd since the Blades won the Turner Cup.

Stupid thread, period. :soap: :deadhorse
 

KCMO

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free0717 said:
KC is a bad market. Portland OR is a much better market.

Care to elaborate? KC can easily support NHL especially in a new arena in a new thriving downtown.

There are 2.5 million people within 60 miles of the Sprint Center and a city that is in serious need of some pro winter sports. KC just got an arena football team (AFL) and I think it will be a smashing success.

You can't compare minor league hockey at Kemper to NHL at Sprint, you also can't compare a horribly run NHL team that was only here two years to a quality NHL team today in a city that is quite a bit bigger and in a new arena district that will be "the place to be" for at least several years. KC also had the NBA and an indoor soccer team that at the time drew a 17k night and had local TV's tuned (team that Leiweke ran). NHL was like the 5th or 6th sport in this town back then.

Having said that, I would hate to "steal" a team and I can't image the pens leaving Pittsburgh, but I'm dying for some hockey and I'll be first in line for season tickets if we get a team. Hell, I'd be happy with AHL right now, but I think the city will somehow get an NHL team. We would have instant rivalries with St.Louis and Denver too, two of our biggest rival sports towns.

The arena is under construction BTW, along with about 3 billion worth of other downtown projects. Look out Pittsburgh, KC is a serious threat, better get that arena done.

Oh, and get some people in that freaking awesome baseball stadium. Come on, the Royals loose 100 games every year and play in an old park that's not close to the city and we draw as well as Pittsburgh.
 
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Squiddy*

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lonewolf-Superbeast said:
I'm sorry, this thread isn't feasable. The pens will never leave Pittsburgh. Mario is god here. What he says happens or has a habit of happening in a short period of time. With the Kid here, for once Pittsburgh has once again become the center of the NHL community. Why on god's green earth wouldn't the city of pittsburgh do everything they can to keep them here?

A move to K.C. would be a bad one. I have lived in Missouri. I know what the top 3 sports are there....Football, Baseball, College Basketball. Unless, your on the Eastern side of the state, Hockey is up there in the Lou.

The track record on hockey teams in K.C. are horrible. It would be a bad move since they haven't drawn a sellout crowd since the Blades won the Turner Cup.

Stupid thread, period. :soap: :deadhorse

Might be a stupid thread for you, but it is comming closer and closer to reality the way your political figures have been handling it.
 

StevenintheATL

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Verbeek said:
There was an article about this article in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, and hers a part I don't get:

Other possible tenants for the Kansas City arena are the Nashville Predators of the NHL and the Orlando Magic and New Orleans Hornets of the NBA.

Are the Preds in danger of leaving?


I could see the Magic headed for Kansas City. The Hornets will probably end up in Oklahoma City (The team is billing itself as the OKC/NO Hornets this season, and if they were serious about remaining in NOLA, they wouldn't have added OKC to the team name).

As for the Preds, they'll just be another team for the relocation rumor mill. The Preds have the potential to become the top sports team in that city, as the Titans are not the team they were when they moved there, and Vandy, well they're Vandy..... I doubt the AFL Kats will be the top dog in that city.
 

Squiddy*

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vespajet said:
As for the Preds, they'll just be another team for the relocation rumor mill. The Preds have the potential to become the top sports team in that city, as the Titans are not the team they were when they moved there, and Vandy, well they're Vandy..... I doubt the AFL Kats will be the top dog in that city.

Please... A Hockey team being the top team in Nashville Tennessee? Like Georges Laraque says... "Wake up..."
 
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