Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko: Part III

[UnSandvich]

You've never heard of using other peoples arguments against them even when you reject the premise of their argument?
He has the lowest skatr score of any of our dmen, his whopping 17th percentile in shot assists backs up the eye test perfectly as he has the worst vision on the team. Whenever he gets the puck at the blueline he panics & immediately fires a slapshot wide of the net, regardless of what passing lanes are open. Many people thought he was a stud powerplay QB when we got him LOL, thank God for DeAngelo & Fox.

Yes, but to do that, you actually have to understand the argument. Which again, you very clearly don't. Trouba is a Top 4 defenseman, Staal is a minor leaguer at this point.

Also, with regards to your previous comment about intangibles, when that's your best argument for Staal over Trouba, I'll respond with the following:

Intangibles are intangible for a reason. I'll take the player who tangibly makes the team better than the other, thanks.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Yes, but to do that, you actually have to understand the argument. Which again, you very clearly don't. Trouba is a Top 4 defenseman, Staal is a minor leaguer at this point.

Also, with regards to your previous comment about intangibles, when that's your best argument for Staal over Trouba, I'll respond with the following:

Intangibles are intangible for a reason. I'll take the player who tangibly makes the team better than the other, thanks.

I can't wait for Trouba's NMC to kick in so we can stop hearing about a Trouba trade

 

[UnSandvich]

I can't wait for Trouba's NMC to kick in so we can stop hearing about a Trouba trade

Agreed.

 

[Thirty One]

I can't wait for Trouba's NMC to kick in so we can stop hearing about a Trouba trade

Oh, so naive!

 

[ijuka]

Hopefully he trains anywhere other than with Rautala. I'm sure he'd get much better results if he, for example, trained under the Rangers trainer.

In any case, a long summer would be great for him as long as he takes full advantage of it and trains properly. I'd really hope he can do something about his skating. Or just, him not getting out of breath 10 seconds into every shift would be a nice start.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Hopefully he trains anywhere other than with Rautala. I'm sure he'd get much better results if he, for example, trained under the Rangers trainer.

In any case, a long summer would be great for him as long as he takes full advantage of it and trains properly. I'd really hope he can do something about his skating. Or just, him not getting out of breath 10 seconds into every shift would be a nice start.

Not a fan of Rautala?

 

[LokiDog]

It is very interesting to me when I think about it, that in 2019 with how advanced scouting should be with so much more exposure for these young players, rather than a handful of viewings, that a kid who was the consensus 1/2 overall in the draft never had skating mentioned as a question mark or limiting factor and then showed up honestly looking like it’s an aspect of his game that could be quite limiting if not improved upon. Yes, I do think conditioning plays a reasonable role in that, but he is by no means an outstanding skater either.

I mean there were flashes and I’m not so worried he won’t improve significantly with a year or two more experience, but his scouting reports say things like defensively responsible, most complete forward in the draft, always a step ahead of the play, sees the game like few others and I didn’t see any of that this year. I saw some offensive instincts and good hands. I didn’t see the rest. Not saying it isn’t there, but it is a bit surprising the scouting reports were ... generous.


Strengths

• Hockey sense and IQ
• Vision
• Skating and speed
• Puck Protection

Quotables

“A quick-thinking winger, Kakko never seems to be in a rush. He reads the game exceptionally well and finds himself a step ahead while the play is still developing. He is confident with the puck and capable of handling it in small spaces. With decent size for a player of his age, Kakko protects the puck well and uses his high hockey IQ to make smart offensive plays. He plays a mature game and is already strong enough to compete with men in the Finnish Liiga. Kakko excels offensively and beats opponents with smarts and skill both on and off the puck.” – Matias Strozyk/Elite Prospects
“Kaapo is a skilled player. Really good in the corners, sees the game really well, passes well and he’s got really good character. He’s going to be a great NHL player, he has all the capacity.” – Jussi Ahokas/Finland Coach
“Multi-tooled winger with size and coordination who incorporates his impressive puck skills with a desirable physical package that consistently exhausts opponents…Blessed with incredibly soft hands and tight-quarter quickness, Kakko is a reliable stickhandler who uses timing plays to either get open or create space for his linemates.” – Steve Kournianos/The Draft Analyst
“I think he’s the best prospect from Finland since Barkov. He doesn’t have any major flaws, is a beast physically and tremendous when protecting the puck. He has worked hard this summer and that’s why he’s ready now.” – Toni Rajamaki/Future Considerations

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Yes, but the advanced stats agree with me on that one.

Also, we’re talking about a veteran in the tail end of his career against a guy in the prime of his career. 26 year old Staal was heads & shoulders better than Trouba. Staal is also a very important leader on our team regardless of how much the progressive analytics types like to bash intangibles

Staal blows right now, who cares what he was like at 26?

This is a clown take bro. Staal away from DeAngelo is like the worst player in the league. Trouba away from Skjei was actually pretty good.

 

[aufheben]

Takes like Kakko was the worst player in the league last season are why I will never take advanced stats seriously.

Why? He was literally good at nothing except drawing penalties and the PP. Average in individual shot attempts. Absolutely atrocious everywhere else. In the O-zone he got knocked over like a fly, and in the D-zone, well, he wasn't really in the D-zone was he?

That said, I think part of his shit stats is just because of Howden.

 

[aufheben]

It is very interesting to me when I think about it, that in 2019 with how advanced scouting should be with so much more exposure for these young players, rather than a handful of viewings, that a kid who was the consensus 1/2 overall in the draft never had skating mentioned as a question mark or limiting factor and then showed up honestly looking like it’s an aspect of his game that could be quite limiting if not improved upon. Yes, I do think conditioning plays a reasonable role in that, but he is by no means an outstanding skater either.

I mean there were flashes and I’m not so worried he won’t improve significantly with a year or two more experience, but his scouting reports say things like defensively responsible, most complete forward in the draft, always a step ahead of the play, sees the game like few others and I didn’t see any of that this year. I saw some offensive instincts and good hands. I didn’t see the rest. Not saying it isn’t there, but it is a bit surprising the scouting reports were ... generous.


Strengths

• Hockey sense and IQ
• Vision
• Skating and speed
• Puck Protection

Quotables

“A quick-thinking winger, Kakko never seems to be in a rush. He reads the game exceptionally well and finds himself a step ahead while the play is still developing. He is confident with the puck and capable of handling it in small spaces. With decent size for a player of his age, Kakko protects the puck well and uses his high hockey IQ to make smart offensive plays. He plays a mature game and is already strong enough to compete with men in the Finnish Liiga. Kakko excels offensively and beats opponents with smarts and skill both on and off the puck.” – Matias Strozyk/Elite Prospects
“Kaapo is a skilled player. Really good in the corners, sees the game really well, passes well and he’s got really good character. He’s going to be a great NHL player, he has all the capacity.” – Jussi Ahokas/Finland Coach
“Multi-tooled winger with size and coordination who incorporates his impressive puck skills with a desirable physical package that consistently exhausts opponents…Blessed with incredibly soft hands and tight-quarter quickness, Kakko is a reliable stickhandler who uses timing plays to either get open or create space for his linemates.” – Steve Kournianos/The Draft Analyst
“I think he’s the best prospect from Finland since Barkov. He doesn’t have any major flaws, is a beast physically and tremendous when protecting the puck. He has worked hard this summer and that’s why he’s ready now.” – Toni Rajamaki/Future Considerations

It seems like the entirety of planet earth forgot Liiga isn't the NHL. Kid needs to beef up. He was getting knocked over incredibly easily. Thankfully getting stronger isn't a big deal. One area he was really good at was drawing penalties. If that's any indication, once he's stronger he's going to be very difficult to get the puck from.

Frankly the skating didn't even concern me that much, it was watching him be put on his ass over and over again with the puck. I wasn't expecting him to be a good skater.

 

[nyr2k2]

Takes like Kakko was the worst player in the league last season are why I will never take advanced stats seriously.

Like half of everything you post is some random "advanced" statistic about Tony DeAngelo being God reincarnate or Jacob Trouba being the worst player ever.

Takes like this are why no one takes your posts seriously.

 

[nyr2k2]

It seems like the entirety of planet earth forgot Liiga isn't the NHL. Kid needs to beef up. He was getting knocked over incredibly easily. Thankfully getting stronger isn't a big deal. One area he was really good at was drawing penalties. If that's any indication, once he's stronger he's going to be very difficult to get the puck from.

Frankly the skating didn't even concern me that much, it was watching him be put on his ass over and over again with the puck. I wasn't expecting him to be a good skater.

There was a time where I thought the level of play in Liiga was getting pretty damn close to the SHL. Now I feel like Liiga is closer to NLA or the Czech League than to the SHL. Which is hard for me to understand, because the Finnish youth program is strong.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

There was a time where I thought the level of play in Liiga was getting pretty damn close to the SHL. Now I feel like Liiga is closer to NLA or the Czech League than to the SHL. Which is hard for me to understand, because the Finnish youth program is strong.

NL is definitely getting stronger. I think Liiga is seeing a lot of early departures of players going to the KHL or SHL in recent years, affecting the overall quality of the game.

 

[nyr2k2]

NL is definitely getting stronger. I think Liiga is seeing a lot of early departures of players going to the KHL or SHL in recent years, affecting the overall quality of the game.

Yeah, could be.

Nothing to do with Kakko, but at this point I'd strongly prefer we stick to drafting guys out of NA (CHL, NCAA, USNTDP primarily), the KHL, and the SHL. Unless there's some unique talent in another league. Otherwise, I prefer the development atmosphere of the three leagues I mentioned.

 

[UnSandvich]

Yeah, could be.

Nothing to do with Kakko, but at this point I'd strongly prefer we stick to drafting guys out of NA (CHL, NCAA, USNTDP primarily), the KHL, and the SHL. Unless there's some unique talent in another league. Otherwise, I prefer the development atmosphere of the three leagues I mentioned.

To be fair, Kakko was that unique talent last year. Lundell this year and Raty next year are also both likely to go pretty high, with Raty being talked about as a Top 5 pick from what i've heard

 

[nyr2k2]

To be fair, Kakko was that unique talent last year. Lundell this year and Raty next year are also both likely to go pretty high, with Raty being talked about as a Top 5 pick from what i've heard

Certainly. I'm not saying don't take guys from Liiga, just that I'd focus the majority of my attention elsewhere. Like if I was a university scouting football players (pretend geographic preferences don't exist), I'd probably recruit the kid playing big-time HS football in Texas, California, or Florida over some guy playing 7-on-7 football on Wyoming. Of course talent trumps all, but the quality of competition matters, too.

Like had Seider taken some precipitous fall into the beginning on the second, I'd be all about finding a way to move up and get him.

 

[UnSandvich]

Certainly. I'm not saying don't take guys from Liiga, just that I'd focus the majority of my attention elsewhere. Like if I was a university scouting football players (pretend geographic preferences don't exist), I'd probably recruit the kid playing big-time HS football in Texas, California, or Florida over some guy playing 7-on-7 football on Wyoming. Of course talent trumps all, but the quality of competition matters, too.

Like had Seider taken some precipitous fall into the beginning on the second, I'd be all about finding a way to move up and get him.

I wanted him with WPG's pick before we traded that back for Trouba. Knowing what we know now, of course, we wouldn't have been close

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Yeah, could be.

Nothing to do with Kakko, but at this point I'd strongly prefer we stick to drafting guys out of NA (CHL, NCAA, USNTDP primarily), the KHL, and the SHL. Unless there's some unique talent in another league. Otherwise, I prefer the development atmosphere of the three leagues I mentioned.

And when we draft kids from the KHL and SHL, can we please leave them there for 2-3 years?

 

[chosen]

Are you suggesting that Kakko was "arguably the worst forward in the league"?

Absolutely in the bottom 1%.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Lol ok.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Running the rookies together on the 3rd line like we did most of the season did no one any favors. I know some people thought Chytil and Kakko had chemistry or whatever but they really should have been paired with some vets.

 

[Anthony5967]

A reminder that Rantanen had 38 points in his first 84 games (19-20 YO seasons). Was also -32. Kakko's PPG at .35 this year. Even though he disappointed, I don't think it's as bad going forward as some may think. My biggest thing with him was getting knocked down so easily, but I honestly think the amount of hockey he had played the last year had something to do with it, too. The guy won, what was it, the World Junior Gold and World Championship Gold? He was a monster in both tournaments.

 

[UnSandvich]

I think it may take another year or two before he's at an elite level, but that's fine, we can afford to wait. After all, he's the youngest player in history to win golds at the U18 WJC, U20 WJC, and World championships

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

Being honest i hoped more of Kakko
when we remember that what he showed in 2019 IIHF worlds.

Yes Kaapo is still very young player
and he has many years time to make a name and career in NHL.

But still it would have been smart to send Kakko to AHL
when there wasn't role and minutes available in NHL.

Someones can think that staying to one more year in TPS would have been OK too in Kakko's case.
New York Rangers deserves all shit what they can ever get
of that how they used Kakko in NHL this past season.

Rangers better learn on that what happened to Puljujärvi in Oilers.
Also Rangers should avoid all possible and useful ways to not make same mistakes with Kakko
what Oilers did with Puljujärvi.

And NO i'm not given up with Kakko.
But i hope he'll bounce back next season and starts play like he did his draft season 2018-2019.

 

[nyr2k2]

Being honest i hoped more of Kakko
when we remember that what he showed in 2019 IIHF worlds.

Yes Kaapo is still very young player
and he has many years time to make a name and career in NHL.

But still it would have been smart to send Kakko to AHL
when there wasn't role and minutes available in NHL.

Someones can think that staying to one more year in TPS would have been OK too in Kakko's case.
New York Rangers deserves all shit what they can ever get
of that how they used Kakko in NHL this past season.

Rangers better learn on that what happened to Puljujärvi in Oilers.
Also Rangers should avoid all possible and useful ways to not make same mistakes with Kakko
what Oilers did with Puljujärvi.

And NO i'm not given up with Kakko.
But i hope he'll bounce back next season and starts play like he did his draft season 2018-2019.

He played over 14 minutes and over 2 minutes on the PP. It's not like he was stapled to the fourth line playing 7 minutes per night. Playing with Howden wasn't ideal but he did see time with guys like Panarin.

I don't know if playing in the AHL would have magically improved his skating and conditioning. I mean he look gassed all the time and like he was skating in mud quite often. And when he did get in good position he'd get the deer-in-headlights thing and shoot from the end line or try some dumb Frolov special.

He could have spent the year in the AHL, but this was a guy who by all indications was ready to make the jump. I wouldn't argue the Rangers handled him perfectly, but I think it's kind of silly to say they "deserve all shit they can get" or whatever. His usage for a rookie was fine, especially on a team that was trying to develop players while also making the playoffs.