JVR>>>Kessel

[TNCHL]

One guy is bigger and plays some PK minutes. Other than that, you can barely tell the difference in the defensive zone. Both float around, cheat and rarely if ever take the body.

Yes kessel cheats, when it works it's deadly and when it doesn't work it's also deadly

 

[MajorLeaf]

Why don't we make it work for us. GET the hometown boy (who is the best available and skilled) who always dreamed about wearing the Maple Leaf, and does their best every night.

Easier said then done. With 30 teams drafting sometimes the only best option is to get the best player available which could be from Sweden like Nylander depending on draft position.

The only way for the Leafs to get a high end hometown player through the draft is by drafting an Ontario kid in the top five of the draft. Even then that doesn't guarantee the Leafs getting a diehard Leafs fan as some of these kids could be fans of other teams like the Habs, Sabres, Senators, or Red Wings (for Ontario kids) and some could end up being Pens, Avalanche, Bolts, Bruins, etc fans.

Case in point: Look no further than Kadri who grew up a Habs fan growing up in Ontario and Matt Duchene growing up liking the Avalanche.

 

[-DeMo-]

I'd love to get a hometown star on the leafs: hopefully when there's smoke, there's fire when it comes to the Stamkos rumors.

I doubt he makes it to UFA, I think something that Damien Cox has said makes a lot of sense in that the summer prior to his UFA status TB will offer Stamkos 9-12 million a year for 8 years. would you risk playing the next season and sustaining a serious injury which could cost you that 72-108 million dollars? I mean unless you really dislike playing in that city I doubt you pass that up. I would much rather take that money and ask for a trade later if I wanted out.

 

[hullsy47]

JVR is not better than Kessel. Kessel is the best player on the team for certain. But that is why the Leafs are nothing more than a bubble team destined for nowhere. Its like beating a dead horse. If Kessel is your best player...you aint going anywhere. Ever.

this post is basically the universal opinion of the leafs ,burke threw kessel down our throats as a core player when in reality is a player needed to be insulated by players that are good in their own right but will never be paid as good as kessel.
i see nonis getting canned by years end ,maybe carlyle as early as this road trip ends ,if the leafs cant get their star players to start leading every night
mark hunter will likley blow peoples minds when he gives his overall opinion of this current group
dont be surprised if he is not all excited about the core of this team

 

[one77]

Kessel is the superior player, but JVR has as much value because of his contract and what he brings. But thankfully, we get to have both of them...

Trade Gardiner+Lupul for somebody like Evander Kane, and go forward with:

JVR - Nylander - Kessel
Kane - Kadri - Santorelli
Komarov - Bozak - Clarkson
Panik - Holland - Winnik

Phaneuf - Franson
Rielly - Polak
Percy - Robidas

Bernier
Reimer

 

[Daisy Jane]

Easier said then done. With 30 teams drafting sometimes the only best option is to get the best player available which could be from Sweden like Nylander depending on draft position.

The only way for the Leafs to get a high end hometown player through the draft is by drafting an Ontario kid in the top five of the draft. Even then that doesn't guarantee the Leafs getting a diehard Leafs fan as some of these kids could be fans of other teams like the Habs, Sabres, Senators, or Red Wings (for Ontario kids) and some could end up being Pens, Avalanche, Bolts, Bruins, etc fans.

Case in point: Look no further than Kadri who grew up a Habs fan growing up in Ontario and Matt Duchene growing up liking the Avalanche.

obviously. but. there are the kids who are - and they're not all in the top 5.
heck. a good chunk of the Ontario kids on the LA Kings not named Carter or Richards grew up in the Toronto area, were not in the top five, make a difference to the Kings and are all Leaf Fans for the most part.

again. I'm not saying that should be the main focus. I want the best damn player period - however. if in the 2nd round and later rounds instead of picking up project players make a bit more of an effort to look for the Ontario ones (or the undrafted kiddos).

 

[ponder]

JvR has size on Kessel, but he's not very physical. He likes to mix it up in front of the opposing net, does a very good Holmstrom impression which is a huge plus, but other than that he's not very physical. Compared to other big forwards, he's way more of a Spezza/Malkin type than a Getzlaf/Simmonds type. Also, he doesn't offer a tonne defensively over Kessel either, he seems like he COULD be a good defensive player, but really doesn't put in much effort. I'm not sure if it's Kessel, Lupul and the like rubbing off on him, but he's pretty passive defensively, not a guy who's really hustling to recover the puck.

So, while JvR does have size on Kessel, it doesn't translate to him being much more physical, or much better defensively. On the other hand, Kessel has a LOT of offensive talent and effectiveness on JvR, which makes a big difference.

For pure on-ice impact, I take Kessel over JvR by a pretty wide margin. Where it gets trickier, though, is when you consider:

1. JvR has a $4.25 mil cap hit, Kessel has an $8 mil cap hit
2. JvR is 2 years younger (25 vs. 27), AND seems to be a later peaker. Kessel is probably at his peak right now, while JvR seems to be still improving
3. Kessel just gives off a lazy, cynical, "not team player" vibe. JvR seems like your pretty standard, cheerful hockey personality, Kessel always feels a bit "too good for the team" - openly stating that he doesn't practice in the offseason, acknowledging that there's basically a separate set of rules for him vs. everyone else on the team, regularly complaining about what a "gong show" Toronto media is, etc. I'd guess that Kessel is a bit of a locker-room cancer, while JvR seems like he'd be a solid locker-room guy

If it was a "lose one of these guys today" situation, I might just have to keep JvR, for the 3 reasons above (half the cap hit, younger/still improving, seems to be a better personality to build around), but I do think Kessel is quite a lot more effective on the ice today.

 

[080]

I tend to agree with JVR > Kessel

Kessel has far superior offensive instincts (shot, passing, vision, etc.) but is unwilling to do the things that JVR will (especially now that he's switched lines). Kessel is the worst defensive player in the league and the worst at getting pucks out of the zone. If you can find a worse player in his own end, I'd like to see it (and I'm sure there are a couple candidates).

JVR goes to the net, takes hits to make plays, goes into the corner and uses his size. He may not be a great two-way player and will sometimes float around a bit but he's willing to improve (in my opinion). He's looked much better even after a few games off the Kessel line.

 

[pucci2001]

I didn't even notice he was playing yesterday until he tapped into an open net on the PP so im not sure what youre talking about

You must have actually been watching the play and not 30' away from the puck waiting for Phil to gift him some more points.

 

[pucci2001]

JvR has size on Kessel, but he's not very physical. He likes to mix it up in front of the opposing net, does a very good Holmstrom impression which is a huge plus, but other than that he's not very physical. Compared to other big forwards, he's way more of a Spezza/Malkin type than a Getzlaf/Simmonds type. Also, he doesn't offer a tonne defensively over Kessel either, he seems like he COULD be a good defensive player, but really doesn't put in much effort. I'm not sure if it's Kessel, Lupul and the like rubbing off on him, but he's pretty passive defensively, not a guy who's really hustling to recover the puck.

So, while JvR does have size on Kessel, it doesn't translate to him being much more physical, or much better defensively. On the other hand, Kessel has a LOT of offensive talent and effectiveness on JvR, which makes a big difference.

For pure on-ice impact, I take Kessel over JvR by a pretty wide margin. Where it gets trickier, though, is when you consider:

1. JvR has a $4.25 mil cap hit, Kessel has an $8 mil cap hit
2. JvR is 2 years younger (25 vs. 27), AND seems to be a later peaker. Kessel is probably at his peak right now, while JvR seems to be still improving
3. Kessel just gives off a lazy, cynical, "not team player" vibe. JvR seems like your pretty standard, cheerful hockey personality, Kessel always feels a bit "too good for the team" - openly stating that he doesn't practice in the offseason, acknowledging that there's basically a separate set of rules for him vs. everyone else on the team, regularly complaining about what a "gong show" Toronto media is, etc. I'd guess that Kessel is a bit of a locker-room cancer, while JvR seems like he'd be a solid locker-room guy

If it was a "lose one of these guys today" situation, I might just have to keep JvR, for the 3 reasons above (half the cap hit, younger/still improving, seems to be a better personality to build around), but I do think Kessel is quite a lot more effective on the ice today.

If you take Kessel away our power play will dry up like a nun's vagina, as will JVR's production that has you fooled he is capable of being a ppg player when it is his job to make the line go.

Kessel has been putting up points like this his whole career and his point totals are still going up and he hasn't had a number one C since Savard could remember what hockey was.

JVR is a copycat he plays more like his linemates, he doesn't have a rugged style like people are claiming he is just someone that tries to tag along, if he can get by floating with Kessel he will, Kessel will take the heat before he does because he gets paid a lot more, if Kadri is going to make him look like a lazy ass he tries to copy that so he doesn't look like the dog he is when he plays with Kessel. No, I don't think JVR is bad, he can be really good but don't mistake a career all-star that is on pace to be the top leaf goal scorer in history for a fringe first line winger that is struggling with his own identity. At least we know who Kessel is every night(love it and hate it), you never know what JVR you are going to get from one night to another and that is the huge issue with him. If he could become a consistent player instead of teasing us with effort and talent once every few games then disappearing completely other than tap in goals that his line mates basically score for him.

 

[pucci2001]

Kessel is the superior player, but JVR has as much value because of his contract and what he brings. But thankfully, we get to have both of them...

Trade Gardiner+Lupul for somebody like Evander Kane, and go forward with:

JVR - Nylander - Kessel
Kane - Kadri - Santorelli
Komarov - Bozak - Clarkson
Panik - Holland - Winnik

Phaneuf - Franson
Rielly - Polak
Percy - Robidas

Bernier
Reimer

I would kill to have Evander Kane in a Leafs uniform, Lupul, Gardiner, another pick or prospect to make it work if I had to, as long as we keep our first this upcoming draft that is.

 

[Cor]

I would fill in those "XXX's" with a couple of big-bodied 2-way wingers who are still adequate to be in a top-6.

And damn Cor, I didn't know you missed Komarov so much you won't even include him in future lineups ..

That would do it for forwards anyway. But how about the D? Obviously Rielly is our main piece going forward, but what to do about Phaneuf, Franson, Gardiner, Polak etc...? We clearly need upgrades here.

Wow, completely forgot about him. Place him on the third line with Holland and Panik I suppose.