Injury Report: JVR has a broken right index finger, out 4-to-6 weeks (Mar. 4); March 31 update posted

[BritainStix]

Frost has done nothing this year to show that he is a better player than Pitlick and Patrick can't even play. Infact I would go as far as saying that Frost has had several poor games (which is totally expect as an underweight rookie) whereas Pitlick has been consistent all year.

Pitlick has done everything in my opinion to be resigned next year. Infact, I think he's generating fan favourite kind of status.

 

[flyersnorth]

+/- is actually pretty meaningless my dude. This is getting to the point where it's common knowledge. If you can get a plus for doing nothing to help your team score and a minus for doing nothing to cost your team a goal, than it's just not a good indicator of anything.

Nonetheless, Pitlick is good. I am Team Pitlick.

It's definitely a flawed stat, but I wouldn't say it's useless.

It can be red flag indicator that prompts the coaching staff to dig deeper to understand if there is or isn't a problem.

If most of your teammates hover around 0 and you are a -18, I'd say it's worth investigating. Is it ALL bad luck? Is it a matchup issue? Is it mostly PPGA? What is causing such a large gap? Could be nothing, could be something.

 

[BritainStix]

It's definitely a flawed stat, but I wouldn't say it's useless.

It can be red flag indicator that prompts the coaching staff to dig deeper to understand if there is or isn't a problem.

If most of your teammates hover around 0 and you are a -18, I'd say it's worth investigating. Is it ALL bad luck? Is it a matchup issue? Is it mostly PPGA? What is causing such a large gap? Could be nothing, could be something.

It can be useful for comparing two players who play similar roles against similar opposition. It needs large sample sizes though to be worth anything.

 

[Rebels57]

It's definitely a flawed stat, but I wouldn't say it's useless.

It can be red flag indicator that prompts the coaching staff to dig deeper to understand if there is or isn't a problem.

If most of your teammates hover around 0 and you are a -18, I'd say it's worth investigating. Is it ALL bad luck? Is it a matchup issue? Is it mostly PPGA? What is causing such a large gap? Could be nothing, could be something.

That's fair.

 

[Magua]

+/- doesn't even show what it's supposed to show. It has noise to it -- from empty nets to shorthanded situations to 3v3 OT. If all you want is goal differential on a level playing field, you can separate it to 5v5 or ES without that noise. And it's not terribly informative without looking at save % and shooting %. Those are the hows. In and of itself, not exactly illuminating. Then you need to look at the whys: are those numbers justified? How can we predict future performance? Spoiler alert: you can't with a relatively minuscule sampling of goals. +/- is a statistical convenience for the statistically uninterested.

Pitlick has done everything in my opinion to be resigned next year. Infact, I think he's generating fan favourite kind of status.

So, what do you think we can get for NAK in a trade? Because they both exclusively play RW and are ideally 4th liners. And I think NAK is far closer to achieving fan favorite status at his age and cost. In a world where NAK never got his shot and was toiling away in the minors, perhaps. But his success has entirely changed the conversation. He's better than Pitlick.

Pitlick is a UFA; he's not a RFA. If a team out there wants to give him multiple years at 2 mil, they can. And they might. He's a nice player who checks that energy box. We are chock-full of skilled wingers, and committing term or salary to Pitlick makes little sense. It's the definition of a thank you for your service season, unless you want to have Pitlick and NAK taking spots away from Farabee, Frost, and others.

 

[Striiker]

It's definitely a flawed stat, but I wouldn't say it's useless.

It can be red flag indicator that prompts the coaching staff to dig deeper to understand if there is or isn't a problem.

If most of your teammates hover around 0 and you are a -18, I'd say it's worth investigating. Is it ALL bad luck? Is it a matchup issue? Is it mostly PPGA? What is causing such a large gap? Could be nothing, could be something.

Problem is, if someone is so bad that they're causing all those goals against, then the players he's on the ice with would have their +/-s dragged down too.

In which case the stat is still useless because it means that the others guys +/- are being impacted by the one terrible player.

And also, in that scenario, there would be other stats that would surely tell the story far better, so +/- would still not really be useful.

It's really just such a team-dependent stat that shows how a group of guys are doing, not an individual. That's why pretty much all the guys with the best +/- are on TB/Bos/Col and the worst are almost all from Detroit.

 

[Striiker]

So, what do you think we can get for NAK in a trade? Because they both play RW and are ideally 4th liners. I think NAK is far closer to achieving fan favorite status at his age and cost.

Pitlick is a UFA; he's not a RFA. If a team out there wants to give him multiple years at 2 mil, they can. And they might. He's a nice player who checks that energy box. We are chock-full of skilled wingers, and committing term to Pitlick makes zero sense. It's the definition of a thank you for your service season.

Exactly.

Pitlick's played well but NAK is just the better choice and keeping both doesn't make sense. You have to go with the younger, better, cheaper, RFA player...

 

[BritainStix]

So, what do you think we can get for NAK in a trade? Because they both play RW and are ideally 4th liners. I think NAK is far closer to achieving fan favorite status at his age and cost.

Pitlick is a UFA; he's not a RFA. If a team out there wants to give him multiple years at 2 mil, they can. And they might. He's a nice player who checks that energy box. We are chock-full of skilled wingers, and committing term to Pitlick makes zero sense. It's the definition of a thank you for your service season.

I would go 2 million a season for Pitlick but nothing higher. He's likely to hit 11-12 goals this year and 25 points while playing primarily on the 4th line. He's physical and kills penalties, not to mention he's absolutely relentless on the forecheck. He's the kind of player that absolutely thrives in AV's system. I think he would get between 1.4 - 1.6 on the market though.

Personally I think NAK could play LW without too many issues. It would be interesting to see if he could play his offwing. Regardless we are going to have to make some hard decisions next year. Laughton could give us real problems if he continues his chemistry with Hayes and Konecny.

Giroux - Couturier - Voracek
Laughton/JVR - Hayes - Konecny
Farabee - Patrick - Frost
AK - Grant - Pitlick
Raffl?

 

[Magua]

Giroux - Couturier - Voracek
Laughton/JVR - Hayes - Konecny
Farabee - Patrick - Frost
AK - Grant - Pitlick
Raffl?

Okay, so you're bumping Raffl -- already under contract for a cheap last year, a natural LW, and a more versatile player than Pitlick -- out of the lineup to ASSUME Aube-Kubel can play LW, when he has never/rarely done so. Again, I'm skeptical Pitlick signs a 1 year deal. He will take the most term and most money, so this likely isn't a 1 year move.

You are then mysteriously removing JVR or Laughton to accommodate. Also, re-signing Grant for probably a chunk of change and years off a career year, when Laughton is a capable 4C in his last contract year. So, you're now twice committing UFA term and salary to 29-30 year UFA 4th liners. I don't know.......seems like a lot of work to just not play NAK at 4RW for a buck. 4th liners are meant to be fungible when they price themselves out.

 

[Striiker]

Pitlick's most common forward teammates...

JVR, Raffl, Laughton, Hayes, Farabee.

They've used him as a 3rd liner for a lot of this year. If he actually gets used as a 4th liner next year his production would most likely drop.

We simply don't need him and have better options so re-signing Pitlick would be a mistake. Raffl and NAK are better 4th line wingers and Pitlick shouldn't be in the top 9.

 

[freakydallas13]

Fletch please don't resign any of Pitlick, Grant, or Thompson for next season.

Just let the flyers play their talented prospects for once. No Thompsons or Weise's blocking the pipline please.

 

[Appleyard]

Yeh, I like Pitlick... but next year there might not be a spot for him.

Heck, if Patrick+Lindblom were healthy he would probably not be playing right now.

That says more about the Flyers than him though. The guy is a good 4th liner with the shot and speed to play as a 3rd wheel on a good 3rd line and not look out of place (tbh like Raffl, NAK, Laughton, Grant too.)

 

[Striiker]

Yeh, I like Pitlick... but next year there might not be a spot for him.

Heck, if Patrick+Lindblom were healthy he would probably not be playing right now.

That says more about the Flyers than him though. The guy is a good 4th liner with the shot and speed to play as a 3rd wheel on a good 3rd line and not look out of place (tbh like Raffl, NAK, Laughton, Grant too.)

Exactly.

Saying he shouldn't be re-signed isn't a knock on him, it's a testament to the fact that we have a very strong forward core.

 

[Appleyard]

I mean... how great is that though?

Pitlick is probably the best 4th liner the Flyers had brought in since maybe Raffl (who played higher than that a lot).

But next year he probably wont be amongst best 12 forwards. A couple of years ago he would have been easily amongst top ~8 best fwds.

 

[VladDrag]

Purely speaking about the players I would like to bring both Grant and Pitlick back. However, when you factor in cap and roster spots it’s really a no brainer.

 

[BritainStix]

Okay, so you're bumping Raffl -- already under contract for a cheap last year, a natural LW, and a more versatile player than Pitlick -- out of the lineup to ASSUME Aube-Kubel can play LW, when he has never/rarely done so. Again, I'm skeptical Pitlick signs a 1 year deal. He will take the most term and most money, so this likely isn't a 1 year move.

You are then mysteriously removing JVR or Laughton to accommodate. Also, re-signing Grant for probably a chunk of change and years off a career year, when Laughton is a capable 4C in his last contract year. So, you're now twice committing UFA term and salary to 29-30 year UFA 4th liners. I don't know.......seems like a lot of work to just not play NAK at 4RW for a buck. 4th liners are meant to be fungible when they price themselves out.

I like a player on the team and hope he sticks around next year, shoot me. He's a good soldier and has played really well for the club.

I also quantified my decision with the

" Regardless we are going to have to make some hard decisions next year. Laughton could give us real problems if he continues his chemistry with Hayes and Konecny. "

Not sure why you ignored that. If Laughton continues to pile up points on that line, including the play-offs, it would seem foolish to break them up, no? Which would probably mean there is no longer a space for JVR.

My lineup also means that frost is also pushed out of position with (hopefully) the recovery of Patrick, someone is going to have to play wing out of Hayes/Patrick/Frost.

It's going to be an interesting off season that's for sure.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[Appleyard]

Right index finger...

 

[usahockey22flyers]

JVR has been very good.

Many on this board just have a completely irrational hate for him because he’s not Kane and hes big but doesn’t hit/fight.

I can’t anymore, people celebrating injuries.

 

[Curufinwe]

66 games this season and last season for JVR, unless he gets back before the playoffs.

 

[Lindberg]

Michael Raffl might be the most underrated player on this forum.

 

[BritainStix]

well shit!

 

[pacehimself]

This team has that “next man up” aura around them...reminds me of when the eagles won a Super Bowl.....

 

[flyersnorth]

Problem is, if someone is so bad that they're causing all those goals against, then the players he's on the ice with would have their +/-s dragged down too.

In which case the stat is still useless because it means that the others guys +/- are being impacted by the one terrible player.

And also, in that scenario, there would be other stats that would surely tell the story far better, so +/- would still not really be useful.

It's really just such a team-dependent stat that shows how a group of guys are doing, not an individual. That's why pretty much all the guys with the best +/- are on TB/Bos/Col and the worst are almost all from Detroit.

The specific example I was thinking of was Laine last year.

He was -24 when most of the team was on the + side. I don't know what the cause of that was, but if I were the coach, that would be a red flag to look a little deeper into what the heck was going on.

Agree that there are many other better stats, but it can still be useful in limited scenarios. Like @Magua pointed out, it has a lot of noise to it. It's a holdover stat from an era before more rigourous and isolated stats.

 

[Striiker]

The specific example I was thinking of was Laine last year.

He was -24 when most of the team was on the + side. I don't know what the cause of that was, but if I were the coach, that would be a red flag to look a little deeper into what the heck was going on.

Agree that there are many other better stats, but it can still be useful in limited scenarios. Like @Magua pointed out, it has a lot of noise to it. It's a holdover stat from an era before more rigourous and isolated stats.

I don't mean that it can't line up with the truth, just that it can't be trusted to be the truth.

In other words, Laine being bad defensively can cause a bad +/-, but a bad +/- can't tell you that Laine was bad defensively.