Justin Williams
- Thread starter ChuckW
- Start date
Anton Babchuk
Registered User
that was a three-way trade with us getting grit machine erik cole. o'sullivan didn't play for us until two seasons later when we signed him as a FA.
oh and it's great to see that i was right yet again.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
the halleJOKEL
strong as brickwall
Anton Babchuk
Registered User
i never actually used the shift key. i would always use caps lock whenever i needed to capitalize a word.
Very true. O'Sullivan was then swapped for Erik Cole. So Williams for Cole was the trade. Man if I had a time machine to go back and not make that trade.....haha.
Boom Boom Apathy
I am the Professor. Deal with it!
- Sep 6, 2006
- 48,359
- 97,934
That happened when dinz started wearing off on him. Both his avatar change and lack of caps. Coincidence? I think not.
TheOllieC
cajun filet
Maybe if JWillie doesn't wanna spend the rest of his contract playing as a 3rd liner he can come here and get top 6 time with the guarantee of no Stanley Cups.
What the Faulk
You'll know when you go
They also picked up a 5th (Matt Kennedy) and moved up 7 spots in the second round, taking Brian Dumoulin who was part of the Jordan Staal deal.
Williams played 49 games in 2009-10, scored 10 goals and 29 points. That put him behind Staal, Jokinen, Whitney, Pitkanen, Sutter, Cullen, Ruutu and tied with Samsonov. Had he not been moved at the 2009 trade deadline, he almost certainly would have been moved for basically nothing at the 2010 draft. If anyone even wanted him.
And let's not act like Cole was useless in his second stint here. From that trade through the end of 2010-11:
Justin Williams: 134 GP, 33 goals, 57 assists (90 points)
Erik Cole: 139 GP, 39 goals, 44 assists (83 points)
Roughly equal. Both contracts were up after that year, and Williams could have walked just as easily as Cole did.
After signing a $17.5m/5 year deal (3.5M a year) and scoring 33 in year one in 2006-07, he followed up the next two years with a grand total of 69 games and 12 goals. People want to rag on Ruutu for wasted money, but that's $7 million for absolutely nothing. How do you commit two more years to a player that blows an Achilles while jogging? He hit 31 in the Cup year when everyone's totals were inflated, but was looking ordinary to almost an outright bust in every year besides those two.
The fact that they got anywhere near equal value at the time is actually pretty impressive. We have the benefit of hindsight to see that Williams did rebound and stay mostly healthy and become the clutchiest of clutch, but getting Cole for an oft injured expensive forward isn't the worst thing in the world.
Williams played 49 games in 2009-10, scored 10 goals and 29 points. That put him behind Staal, Jokinen, Whitney, Pitkanen, Sutter, Cullen, Ruutu and tied with Samsonov. Had he not been moved at the 2009 trade deadline, he almost certainly would have been moved for basically nothing at the 2010 draft. If anyone even wanted him.
And let's not act like Cole was useless in his second stint here. From that trade through the end of 2010-11:
Justin Williams: 134 GP, 33 goals, 57 assists (90 points)
Erik Cole: 139 GP, 39 goals, 44 assists (83 points)
Roughly equal. Both contracts were up after that year, and Williams could have walked just as easily as Cole did.
After signing a $17.5m/5 year deal (3.5M a year) and scoring 33 in year one in 2006-07, he followed up the next two years with a grand total of 69 games and 12 goals. People want to rag on Ruutu for wasted money, but that's $7 million for absolutely nothing. How do you commit two more years to a player that blows an Achilles while jogging? He hit 31 in the Cup year when everyone's totals were inflated, but was looking ordinary to almost an outright bust in every year besides those two.
The fact that they got anywhere near equal value at the time is actually pretty impressive. We have the benefit of hindsight to see that Williams did rebound and stay mostly healthy and become the clutchiest of clutch, but getting Cole for an oft injured expensive forward isn't the worst thing in the world.
Vagrant
The Czech Condor
If you're going to paraphrase, make sure you get the right parts. I did say that Williams may not ever get back to the level where he was during his best days here and that seems like a no contest. He was a 30 goal scorer here twice and has settled comfortably into a different role with the Kings scoring 20 goals a season and picking up a lot of help in the assist column by virtue of playing on potentially the best Top 9 in hockey. He was producing at a first line level when he was here and that hasn't been the case since he started picking up those injuries. All the credit in the world to Williams for having a phenomenal playoff year and continued success because he deserves it, but he's not the difference maker we thought we were securing when we signed him to that deal if we're talking about exclusively regular season performance which is pretty much all anybody around here has been getting the past five years.
Ole Gil
Registered User
- May 9, 2009
- 5,703
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Comparing playing for Lavi in the two post lockout years to playing Kings hockey in recent years is not really apples to apples. Carolina scored 3.49 per game in 05/06. Kings scored 2.42 this year.
Similarly with 'difference maker', he was 2nd only to Kopitar in scoring for the Kings the three seasons prior to this, and 3rd this season. He is flourishing in that system, even if it's not in the pretty 'league leaders' style of high scoring hockey. He's been a key scoring piece for the past 4 years.
I think the Canes did the right thing at the time. You couldn't wager that 1) the injuries were just a fluke, and not a result of Williams being injury prone, and 2) that he'd show no long term effects.
But they were wrong on both accounts. Fairly similar inaccurate judgments were made with Cole and Whitney when not resigning them. And the wrong call made with Ruutu. Not a great track record for the front office when it comes to guessing on this front.
Similarly with 'difference maker', he was 2nd only to Kopitar in scoring for the Kings the three seasons prior to this, and 3rd this season. He is flourishing in that system, even if it's not in the pretty 'league leaders' style of high scoring hockey. He's been a key scoring piece for the past 4 years.
I think the Canes did the right thing at the time. You couldn't wager that 1) the injuries were just a fluke, and not a result of Williams being injury prone, and 2) that he'd show no long term effects.
But they were wrong on both accounts. Fairly similar inaccurate judgments were made with Cole and Whitney when not resigning them. And the wrong call made with Ruutu. Not a great track record for the front office when it comes to guessing on this front.
Joe McGrath
Registered User
- Oct 29, 2009
- 18,142
- 38,169
They didnt make an inaccurate judgement with Cole. In years 2 and 3 of the contract he signed his line read 122-25-17-42 and a -23. Seems like a pretty good decision to me.
Ole Gil
Registered User
- May 9, 2009
- 5,703
- 8,897
So it seems. That's what I get for relying on my memory. Thought he had 2 good years in Montreal before the lockout.
Brock Anton
flames #badnwagon
ChuckW
Keep the Hurricanes great!
chuck
Chuck, great to see ya back, but i wouldnt full time.... Read only and the occasional reply and rant suits me fine.. Hope you are well!
Chuck, great to see ya back, but i wouldnt full time.... Read only and the occasional reply and rant suits me fine.. Hope you are well!
ChuckW
Keep the Hurricanes great!
Chuck, great to see ya back, but i wouldnt full time.... Read only and the occasional reply and rant suits me fine.. Hope you are well!
Doing well in the business ratrace! Thanks.
