Proposal: Justin Braun to Flyers

[Rebels57]

The only immediate need the Sharks have at the moment is an established 3C. But I don’t know if the Flyers are in a position to provide that in a trade for Braun.

In lieu of a 3C the Sharks might be interested in a futures package to offset some of the assets they’ve recently traded away.

How’s this sound:


Braun


Frost/Myers
2019 2nd
2020 4th

So you want either our best F prospect or our best D prospect for a 2nd pairing dman?



We wouldn't trade Frost or Myers straight up for Braun.

 

[Rebels57]

I think Braun is the type of D-man who can play with Ivan Provorov.
Braun took 168 hits (6th in NHL among D-men) and blocked 152 shots. Also he made 143 hits, so Braun can unload Provorov in physical game in dirty areas.
He plays 20+ minutes every night. Also Braun played 2:41 SH TOI/GP. Sharks missed 23 goals when Braun was on the ice in SH, which means 1 goal in 9:47 - decent stats.
Braun missed just 4 games in past 3 season. He is a RHD - this is nice addition to our team, because Folin and Gudas doesn`t have top-4 upside.

His caphit 3,8 through 2020.

How much can it coast? Simmonds?

There is no reason whatsoever for the Flyers to make a move for a 2nd pairing dman like Braun. Phil Myers is NHL ready. Radkos Gudas is fine on the 2nd pairing until Myers is promoted.

 

[Groo]

So you want either our best F prospect or our best D prospect for a 2nd pairing dman?



We wouldn't trade Frost or Myers straight up for Braun.

Sharks don't have a real need to deal Braun. If another team can't make it worthwhile, then why should they downgrade at D

On a side note, what would you gage Farabee's worth ?

 

[Rebels57]

Sharks don't have a real need to deal Braun. If another team can't make it worthwhile, then why should they downgrade at D

On a side note, what would you gage Farabee's worth ?

Farabee is just as valuable as a guy like Timo Meier was post-draft. With his skating, tenacity, and shot, he should be a 20-30 goal guy pretty easily. Very happy to land him where we did.

He was voted our 2nd best forward prospect behind Frost in our summer poll.

 

[Groo]

Farabee is just as valuable as a guy like Timo Meier was post-draft. With his skating, tenacity, and shot, he should be a 20-30 goal guy pretty easily. Very happy to land him where we did.

He was voted our 2nd best forward prospect behind Frost in our summer poll.

It seems you guy really hit on that pick
Was very high on him leading up to the draft

 

[CapnZin]

Lol. Okay. Obviously I don’t know PHI’s prospects super well. Who would be some of the interesting prospects potentially available to swap out for Frost/Myers in the proposal?

Frost and Myers are 2 of our top 3 prospects. The flyers have arguably a top 3/5 prospect pool and arguably the deepest prospect pool. Braun doesn’t get either of them 1 - 1.

While Braun is a good middle pairing Dman... I don’t see the flyers trading for him. We have Sanheim and Myers eventually rounding out the top 4 with Gudas, Hagg, and Friedman eventually taking up the other 2 slots with other players like Ginning and Zamula recently impacting the team.

I would be willing to give up something along the likes of:

PHI: 2019 3rd + German Rubtsov + Samuel Errson

SJ: Justin Braun

 

[Gecklund]

Well this thread is a classic example of how HF overrates prospects.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

Frost and Myers are 2 of our top 3 prospects. The flyers have arguably a top 3/5 prospect pool and arguably the deepest prospect pool. Braun doesn’t get either of them 1 - 1.

While Braun is a good middle pairing Dman... I don’t see the flyers trading for him. We have Sanheim and Myers eventually rounding out the top 4 with Gudas, Hagg, and Friedman eventually taking up the other 2 slots with other players like Ginning and Zamula recently impacting the team.

I would be willing to give up something along the likes of:

PHI: 2019 3rd + German Rubtsov + Samuel Errson

SJ: Justin Braun

Thanks for acknowledging my follow up comment.

I think if the Sharks are looking to move Braun I’d like them to try to get at least one 2nd rounder, upgrade another pick one round, and one interesting prospect. Also I’d personally be willing to move the picks out a year or two if that smooths things along.

How about something like this:


Braun
2020 3rd


Wade Allison
2020 2nd
2021 2nd

 

[CapnZin]

Thanks for acknowledging my follow up comment.

I think if the Sharks are looking to move Braun I’d like them to try to get at least one 2nd rounder, upgrade another pick one round, and one interesting prospect. Also I’d personally be willing to move the picks out a year or two if that smooths things along.

How about something like this:


Braun
2020 3rd


Wade Allison
2020 2nd
2021 2nd

I don’t think the value is far apart. The only hindering aspect of a trade like this, is that Justin Braun is a stop gap #4 Dman. We already have 4 capable Dman (Gudas has to rebound... if not... then he goes back to is only #6 play... that’s a problem that can be fixed by Myers development).

Nobody ever pays a premium for a stop gap, not matter how valuable that player is you know? Would the penguins have traded Sprong + a 2nd or so for someone to backup Fleury whole they waited for Murray? That’s obviously a no.

When accounting for needs... and we see the comments like “Braun is undervalued” “were overrating our prospects”... no... no we’re not. We aren’t paying an arm an a leg for someone who will last a season or so. It’s not a degradation to Braun... we just don’t need it. He would slot in nicely next to Sanheim, but we might have him as a #5 the next year. For that... you have to take the flyers premium of a smaller return. Allison is also a top 10 prospect. I don’t think you’re going to find any fan willing to give up a top 10 prospect, plus 2 2nd for a stop gap and a 3rd.

I guess if my previous post was of no value, we can try

SJ: Braun

PHI: Ginning + Weal + 2019 2nd

I’d be surprised if you’ll find a flyers fan who would beat these previous 2 offers. Again, we just don’t need a stop gap for Myers. Same reason why we aren’t trading for a goalie... due to hart being ready soon.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Thanks for acknowledging my follow up comment.

I think if the Sharks are looking to move Braun I’d like them to try to get at least one 2nd rounder, upgrade another pick one round, and one interesting prospect. Also I’d personally be willing to move the picks out a year or two if that smooths things along.

How about something like this:


Braun
2020 3rd


Wade Allison
2020 2nd
2021 2nd

Make it:

Allison
2nd

For Braun.

 

[Starat327]

Well this thread is a classic example of how HF overrates prospects.

...because we arent willing to give a blue chip prospect for a declining mid pairing dman? Sure.

HF Overrates prospects, im with you there. But this thread is not an example of that.

 

[CapnZin]

...because we arent willing to give a blue chip prospect for a declining mid pairing dman? Sure.

HF Overrates prospects, im with you there. But this thread is not an example of that.

A pretty objective analysis has the flyers hovering around #5 for most stock in prospects. Some have them at #2 which is a little overzealous, but one can say it’s the deepest. That elite talent at the top hasn’t been there, but it’s prospects galore in their system.

I 100% agree that most people overrate their own players/team... I do it too and I’ll be the first to admit it, but this thread is the last place where this should be the case.

 

[Starat327]

A pretty objective analysis has the flyers hovering around #5 for most stock in prospects. Some have them at #2 which is a little overzealous, but one can say it’s the deepest. That elite talent at the top hasn’t been there, but it’s prospects galore in their system.

I 100% agree that most people overrate their own players/team... I do it too and I’ll be the first to admit it, but this thread is the last place where this should be the case.

Right. Someone made an overly egrigious comment on the first page about not giving that up for Karlsson, or something to that extent, but other than that, i dont see the 'homerism' here. One could argue that giving up Myers or Frost for Braun specifically because the flyers arent a Braun away from contending, is a bad deal- before you even consider the value of those prospects.

 

[Groo]

All these offer help out the Flyers and give the Sharks zero incentive as they doing nothing but weaken the Sharks team
Can't look at only one side to these things

 

[Gecklund]

...because we arent willing to give a blue chip prospect for a declining mid pairing dman? Sure.

HF Overrates prospects, im with you there. But this thread is not an example of that.

Maybe my problem is that I’m mainly looking at it from the Sharks. I wouldn’t give up Braun for either of those guys. Also Braun is a 3 at worst. Only guy that I’d move Braun for in this thread is Simmonds. Maybe something like Braun+Karlsson for Simmonds+bottom pairing D (without a huge contract)

Our depth would be insane

Kane-Pavelski-Donskoi
Hertl-Couture-Meier
Labanc-Thornton-Simmonds
Sorenson-Suomela-Goodrow

Vlasic-Karlsson
Ryan-Burns
Dillon-Heed/other D

 

[tictactoe]

I doubt Flyers will trade Frost.

 

[Starat327]

Maybe my problem is that I’m mainly looking at it from the Sharks. I wouldn’t give up Braun for either of those guys. Also Braun is a 3 at worst. Only guy that I’d move Braun for in this thread is Simmonds. Maybe something like Braun+Karlsson for Simmonds+bottom pairing D (without a huge contract)

Our depth would be insane

Kane-Pavelski-Donskoi
Hertl-Couture-Meier
Labanc-Thornton-Simmonds
Sorenson-Suomela-Goodrow

Vlasic-Karlsson
Ryan-Burns
Dillon-Heed/other D

I think that may be the issue - and im not saying that to be an ass. I think you may be overrating Braun a bit ( i see him as a 4, so ,maybe not too far off?), but i can definitely understand why you wont trade him for scraps - ive said as much in previous posts.

Simmonds for Braun is probably workable, especially with us sending Myers back to the A today. Id much prefer to add a bottom 6 RW (again, we sent back NAK today) for Simmonds - Simmonds to TOR for Brown+ has been proposed and mostly accepted - but im ok with Braun as well, since we seem content to not tive our young D a chance.

 

[Deadpool8812]

Well this thread is a classic example of how HF overrates prospects.

No, it's a classic example of another franchise's fan base knowing absolutely nothing about another franchise's team needs

 

[Gecklund]

No, it's a classic example of another franchise's fan base knowing absolutely nothing about another franchise's team needs

You can read my post from earlier.

 

[tictactoe]

In what world is that better then Norris (former 1st rd pick), Tierney (proven 3c), balcers (good prospect), Demalo (terrible nhl dman) a 1st, 2nd and additional 2nd if hes resigned?

and which one of those studs better prospect then Frost?

 

[BillR10]

and which one of those studs better prospect then Frost?

So Frost is worth more than that entire package? The 2nds wash out so your saying 2 roster pieces, a recent 1st rd pick, a good prospect, a 1st and a conditional 2nd is not more valuable than frost and a 4th? Never said frost for Braun was a good deal cause it's not but to say that frost is worth more than that offer is idiotic

 

[jMoneyBrah]

No, it's a classic example of another franchise's fan base knowing absolutely nothing about another franchise's team needs

Since I was the one that made the proposal I can admit it was an overreach, but I was also unaware that I am the designated representative for an entire fanbase.

I’ve since adjusted the premise of the proposal to reflect the sentiments of those who’ve replied.

 

[ponder719]

Maybe my problem is that I’m mainly looking at it from the Sharks. I wouldn’t give up Braun for either of those guys. Also Braun is a 3 at worst. Only guy that I’d move Braun for in this thread is Simmonds. Maybe something like Braun+Karlsson for Simmonds+bottom pairing D (without a huge contract)

See, that's where the issue comes in. Take the Flyers' situation into account. Our core, moving forward, will be Provorov/Gostisbehere/Sanheim/Myers/Hart/Couturier/Konecny/Patrick/Frost/Farabee and whoever else slots in (Lindblom, Aube-Kubel, Vorobyov, Rubtsov, whoever.) G, Jake, JVR, and Simmer are older, and will be complimentary parts by the time we're truly ready to compete.

Couts is 26. Ghost is 25. The next oldest core pieces are 22 right now. Trading away someone young, who we expect to grow with the team and fill a critical role for years, is counterproductive. Meanwhile, the Sharks are looking for someone who's good now, because your window is now. Simmonds would have a lot more value to you, as you rightly pointed out, but to us, the value proposition is inverted, because Simmer's 30. He's the 7th oldest guy on our roster; as much as he's a great guy and still has a lot to give, he's not going to be there when we're really competing.... and therein lies the rub, because neither will Braun, who's also 30. For the Flyers, it's much easier to part with Simmonds than with Frost or Myers; they have more value to us, since their value comes into play when we most need it to.

What I'd really like to do is make the deal bigger by moving to better secondary parts: Braun+Donskoi for Simmonds+Gudas, who is more than a bottom-pairing guy, and the only expendable defenseman who has a reasonable contract. Donskoi will be around long enough to provide us additional value, and Braun fills a slot for a while; Simmer's a big add for you, and Gudas could conceivably step into your second pairing if you need him to; he's overqualified to be on the third pair (unless he's playing scared.) If the contract is an issue, the Flyers could retain on Simmonds; that does no harm to us, and it brings him down to about what Donskoi's paid. Gudas, meanwhile, represents a savings over Braun's deal.

 

[Sota Popinski]

Frost and Myers are 2 of our top 3 prospects. The flyers have arguably a top 3/5 prospect pool and arguably the deepest prospect pool. Braun doesn’t get either of them 1 - 1.

While Braun is a good middle pairing Dman... I don’t see the flyers trading for him. We have Sanheim and Myers eventually rounding out the top 4 with Gudas, Hagg, and Friedman eventually taking up the other 2 slots with other players like Ginning and Zamula recently impacting the team.

I would be willing to give up something along the likes of:

PHI: 2019 3rd + German Rubtsov + Samuel Errson

SJ: Justin Braun

A 3rd? So a guy who in all likelihood will never play in the NHL? We'll get back to ya...

 

[captainpaxil]

I'd go gudas+3rd for braun. Flyers get a little more veteran savvy and san jose gets a little more snarl. Both teams are looking to make a push this year so i don't think a straight picks and prospects deal would work. Maybe sawp out the pick for a prospect say aube kubel who is close to nhl ready but not as sexy as the top end guys