Junior (QMJHL documentary)

[ponder]

Just finished watching "Junior," a documentary on Baie-Comeau's 2005/06 season. You can watch the full length film on the National Film Board's website here:
http://www.nfb.ca/film/Junior_en

Be warned that the focus is purely on off-ice stuff, not the on-ice product, and there's no voiceovers. Also, there are subtitles since it's obviously in french. It's (IMO) not as entertaining as, say, HBO's 24/7, but an interesting documentary none-the-less, especially for QMJHL fans.

I have a few open questions:

1) For people involved in some way in the QMJHL, or the CHL in general, do you think this is a biased or balanced depiction of a Baie-Comeau season? The team seems like a very depressing/awful environment to me

2) Again, for CHL "insiders," do you think this would be a common atmosphere with a lot of CHL teams, or only select teams with rough coaches/management and/or generally poor on ice performances?

3) For everyone (not just CHL insiders), did watching this movie change your opinion on whether or not it's "right" for high end prospects to dictate where they'll play (top CHL prospects often "Lindros" their way out of playing for undesirable teams and force trades to more desirable teams). If this is really how life is on teams like Baie-Comeau, would you blame prospects for forcing their way off such teams and into an environment they like better?



(as far as I can tell there was an old thread or two on HF about this movie, but little discussion)

Click to read more...

 

[Rob Scuderi]

Just finished watching "Junior," a documentary on Baie-Comeau's 2005/06 season. You can watch the full length film on the National Film Board's website here:
http://www.nfb.ca/film/Junior_en

Be warned that the focus is purely on off-ice stuff, not the on-ice product, and there's no voiceovers. Also, there are subtitles since it's obviously in french. It's (IMO) not as entertaining as, say, HBO's 24/7, but an interesting documentary none-the-less, especially for QMJHL fans.

I have a few open questions:

1) For people involved in some way in the QMJHL, or the CHL in general, do you think this is a biased or balanced depiction of a Baie-Comeau season? The team seems like a very depressing/awful environment to me

2) Again, for CHL "insiders," do you think this would be a common atmosphere with a lot of CHL teams, or only select teams with rough coaches/management and/or generally poor on ice performances?

3) For everyone (not just CHL insiders), did watching this movie change your opinion on whether or not it's "right" for high end prospects to dictate where they'll play (top CHL prospects often "Lindros" their way out of playing for undesirable teams and force trades to more desirable teams). If this is really how life is on teams like Baie-Comeau, would you blame prospects for forcing their way off such teams and into an environment they like better?



(as far as I can tell there was an old thread or two on HF about this movie, but little discussion)

This video got linked in a thread over the summer and I have to say it was pretty awesome. It was a really cool behind the scenes look at what hockey is like from different perspectives. That coach seemed like a bit of a dbag though.

I have no CHL or QMJHL info though so I'm not sure I can answer the first two. I'm very glad you asked the third question though because this video definitely exposed me to a much better look at the reality of the situation than say the bickering in the MacKinnon thread. I forget the name of the defenseman who gets traded to Chicoutimi but that scene is definitely my favorite.

It's so real seeing the teenager find out he got traded. For those who didn't watch, BaC was pretty bad so they were moving a lot of guys around near the deadline and this kid was seemingly an only English speaker who said he would only go to teams in the Maritimes. Instead the coach or GM or whoever lobbied for that move sent him to Chicoutimi and he's sitting with his teammate at the rink and they tell him he's been traded. He freaks out a bit saying how its ******** and how he's so mad and how he specifically talked to the team about this so it wouldn't happen. Don't worry it ends nicely with him taking the trade but just seeing the real visceral reaction is so informative I feel like. You really see that these are just a bunch of kids, some of they hope to move on but the majority won't pursue hockey professionally. I'm the biggest proponent of NHL EHM and generally anything that lets me pretend to be a GM in hockey but I really have a hard time applying the same callous attitude I would with grown men in the NHL as these kids.

I don't think it's fair to accuse them of pulling a "Lindros" though with what that connotes. Kids don't just pull the NCAA card or refuse to report places simply because they want to go somewhere specific, though it obviously happens often in cases, or because the team drafting them is too ******. There's so much more that goes into their decision of where to play, where to live, where they grow up, if they're staying in a good environment that all requires parental input and insight. If I were a parent of a kid about to be drafted in the NHL I'd hope he respects the team who chooses him and that he plays out his time there before moving if he really wanted out. If I were a parent of a kid going into a CHL draft I definitely wouldn't feel the same way however. It's just not fair to treat teenagers with the same standards as NHLers I feel, not that I think you're doing so.

 

[S E P H]

Who was the player in the very beginning and did anybody get drafted from the year in the video?

 

[howitzermoose]

The dude getting reamed out was Ryan James Hand. He was pretty much a goon in his Q days. Tough as nails, but not a real useful player.

The guy who gets traded and pissed off was Ryan Lehr.

Re: players drafted...I think the only one was Francois Bouchard. He had 102 pts that year, and was drafted that summer by the Caps. At that time Benjamin Breault was 16 and putting up numbers, but as the video showed, he had off ice issues and attitude problems, and consequently never got a sniff in the show. He did get drafted the next year by Buffalo, I believe in rd 7 but never amounted to much. Last I knew he was playing CIS for Dalhousie.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

Yeah Benjamin Breault was the kid they focused on the most, the one with the agent telling him to shoot and lift weights etc. I think they show him getting picked in the 7th round actually by Buffalo in that documentary because I have no idea where else I would have seen an otherwise nameless 7th round scoring forward from the Q talking to the team who drafted him.

Here's his stats, http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=12160 and he's a CIS player now as someone said

 

[SergeConstantin74]

Baie-Comeau had a crappy season and a crappy coach/GM that year. He is the reason why they have been at the bottom of the standings since then. They'll start redeeming themselves this year that's for sure.

One of the players who got traded to B-C (you also see him not getting drafted at the end) is Alex Lamontagne. He was one of the top picks in the 2004 QMJHL draft and a promising prospect. But he got seriously injured (you see this in the documentary) and didn't get drafted. He plays in the CIS now.

The english kid who gets traded is Ryan Lehr. He got his wish by getting traded to PEI by B-C, but PEI then traded him to Chicoutimi who needed a solid 3rd pairing defenseman as they were in the run for the cup. He did go to Chicoutimi afterall. His main reason for wanting to be traded to the Maritime is that because he wanted to go to university but he never went after his season. He is now playing in the CHL

The player who the coach is angered after at the beginning is Ryan James Hand. He was supposed to be one of the leader of the team but in a trip to St John's, he went to a bar and got drunk the night before a game. He kicked off the team. He was playing in the CHL last season.

The young player you see the most is Benjamin Breault. He was drafted in the 7th round by Buffalo but they never signed him. They hated him in B-C but I don't know why. He had off ice issues that's for sure. He plays in the CIS now.

The documentary is interesting but these were really bad days for the B-C concession. Now it's way better.

 

[S E P H]

Baie-Comeau had a crappy season and a crappy coach/GM that year. He is the reason why they have been at the bottom of the standings since then. They'll start redeeming themselves this year that's for sure.

One of the players who got traded to B-C (you also see him not getting drafted at the end) is Alex Lamontagne. He was one of the top picks in the 2004 QMJHL draft and a promising prospect. But he got seriously injured (you see this in the documentary) and didn't get drafted. He plays in the CIS now.

The english kid who gets traded is Ryan Lehr. He got his wish by getting traded to PEI by B-C, but PEI then traded him to Chicoutimi who needed a solid 3rd pairing defenseman as they were in the run for the cup. He did go to Chicoutimi afterall. His main reason for wanting to be traded to the Maritime is that because he wanted to go to university but he never went after his season. He is now playing in the CHL

The player who the coach is angered after at the beginning is Ryan James Hand. He was supposed to be one of the leader of the team but in a trip to St John's, he went to a bar and got drunk the night before a game. He kicked off the team. He was playing in the CHL last season.

The young player you see the most is Benjamin Breault. He was drafted in the 7th round by Buffalo but they never signed him. They hated him in B-C but I don't know why. He had off ice issues that's for sure. He plays in the CIS now.

The documentary is interesting but these were really bad days for the B-C concession. Now it's way better.

So he was really that bad of a coach? To me he seems like a tough, but respectable guy, no?

I do respect Messier, but he seemed very harsh on agents. So which one do you listen to, to make it to the NHL? Agent of Coach?

 

[SergeConstantin74]

So he was really that bad of a coach? To me he seems like a tough, but respectable guy, no?

He's kind of a running gag in the league (between fans). We all wonder why he was able to find a new job. He was an assistant coach with Acadie-Bathurst last season and will be the head coach this season.

The agent is getting a bit too much between his player and the team. He basically asks him top stop passing and shoot the puck himself. It's not the kind of comment an agent should give.

 

[Johnny8242]

Saw this last fall. Great film.

I wasn't totally shocked by the film. I've heard a lot of stories about how it is in Major Junior.

The really interesting scenes were

RJ Hand getting kicked off the team

Ryan Lehr's reaction to getting traded to Chicoutimi (after thinking he was going to a Maritime team)

Benjamin Breault getting drafted (even though it was a late round) that was something he worked very hard for.

Also though in hindsight it was interesting how high they held Alex Lamontagne in regard during the trade talk.(I think they refereed to him as being a future NHL draft pick but its been a while since I watched it ) I know he was a top Draft pick in the Q Draft but even then his stats weren't every impressive. I think that kid ended up playing briefly for the Flint Generals.

 

[ponder]

So he was really that bad of a coach? To me he seems like a tough, but respectable guy, no?

I do respect Messier, but he seemed very harsh on agents. So which one do you listen to, to make it to the NHL? Agent of Coach?

He stayed on as Baie-Comeau's head coach until 2009, so management must have seen something in him. But he comes off as a total d-bag in this movie, in my opinion. Editing is a tricky thing though, hard to say if this is a fair representation of the man, or a biased view of mostly his worst moments.

This video got linked in a thread over the summer and I have to say it was pretty awesome. It was a really cool behind the scenes look at what hockey is like from different perspectives. That coach seemed like a bit of a dbag though.

I have no CHL or QMJHL info though so I'm not sure I can answer the first two. I'm very glad you asked the third question though because this video definitely exposed me to a much better look at the reality of the situation than say the bickering in the MacKinnon thread. I forget the name of the defenseman who gets traded to Chicoutimi but that scene is definitely my favorite.

It's so real seeing the teenager find out he got traded. For those who didn't watch, BaC was pretty bad so they were moving a lot of guys around near the deadline and this kid was seemingly an only English speaker who said he would only go to teams in the Maritimes. Instead the coach or GM or whoever lobbied for that move sent him to Chicoutimi and he's sitting with his teammate at the rink and they tell him he's been traded. He freaks out a bit saying how its ******** and how he's so mad and how he specifically talked to the team about this so it wouldn't happen. Don't worry it ends nicely with him taking the trade but just seeing the real visceral reaction is so informative I feel like. You really see that these are just a bunch of kids, some of they hope to move on but the majority won't pursue hockey professionally. I'm the biggest proponent of NHL EHM and generally anything that lets me pretend to be a GM in hockey but I really have a hard time applying the same callous attitude I would with grown men in the NHL as these kids.

I don't think it's fair to accuse them of pulling a "Lindros" though with what that connotes. Kids don't just pull the NCAA card or refuse to report places simply because they want to go somewhere specific, though it obviously happens often in cases, or because the team drafting them is too ******. There's so much more that goes into their decision of where to play, where to live, where they grow up, if they're staying in a good environment that all requires parental input and insight. If I were a parent of a kid about to be drafted in the NHL I'd hope he respects the team who chooses him and that he plays out his time there before moving if he really wanted out. If I were a parent of a kid going into a CHL draft I definitely wouldn't feel the same way however. It's just not fair to treat teenagers with the same standards as NHLers I feel, not that I think you're doing so.

I basically feel the same way. These are 16 year olds moving away from home, and not necessarily to a great environment, but to a potentially pretty awful/depressing environment like the one shown in this video. Most kids simply have to accept their fate and go wherever they're drafted (or take a different route, such as the NCAA path), but the top prospects have the leverage to force a trade, and if you can avoid an environment like the one shown in this video, why wouldn't you? These are not adults being offered an NHL job where they're getting paid millions to play, who should basically just buck up or shut up, these are teenagers getting very little compensation, moving away from home at 16, possibly to a situation that doesn't look like too much fun at all, on a bad team with a d-bag coach in the middle of nowhere. If they can get themselves traded to a good team with a good coach, in a city/town they'd rather live in, I say go for it.

The Ryan Lehr scene (starting around 55:40) is definitely worth watching, I found it kind of sad that they mess with the kids lives like this for probably very little impact on the teams. He was a marginal player in the first place, the difference between trading him to a Maritimes team and indirectly trading him to another team in the middle of nowhere in Quebec was probably very little value, you can tell going to the Maritimes meant a lot to him but they just sort of broke him anyways. The sequence where the Baie-Comeau coach is one the phone, saying "they traded Lehr? ... to Chiquot', no way, I knew it ... ok, wait, is he around? ... this will do him in", while laughing and smiling at the kids misfortune the whole time, to me seemed pretty cold/brutal.

 

[SergeConstantin74]

Saw this last fall. Great film.

I wasn't totally shocked by the film. I've heard a lot of stories about how it is in Major Junior.

The really interesting scenes were

RJ Hand getting kicked off the team

Ryan Lehr's reaction to getting traded to Chicoutimi (after thinking he was going to a Maritime team)

Benjamin Breault getting drafted (even though it was a late round) that was something he worked very hard for.

Also though in hindsight it was interesting how high they held Alex Lamontagne in regard during the trade talk.(I think they refereed to him as being a future NHL draft pick but its been a while since I watched it ) I know he was a top Draft pick in the Q Draft but even then his stats weren't every impressive. I think that kid ended up playing briefly for the Flint Generals.

He was a 6'4 and 222 lbs defenseman...

 

[SergeConstantin74]

He stayed on as Baie-Comeau's head coach until 2009, so management must have seen something in him. But he comes off as a total d-bag in this movie, in my opinion. Editing is a tricky thing though, hard to say if this is a fair representation of the man, or a biased view of mostly his worst moments.

Baie-Comeau couldn't afford breaking too much contracts. They had just fired a coach who ended up winning the Memorial Cup with Quebec as an assistant coach the same year of the documentary.

 

[JeromeHP]

everytime i see or hear about this movie i get piss about Breault agent...was a POS

 

[S E P H]

everytime i see or hear about this movie i get piss about Breault agent...was a POS

He dresses nice though. Curious, why?

 

[ponder]

Baie-Comeau couldn't afford breaking too much contracts. They had just fired a coach who ended up winning the Memorial Cup with Quebec as an assistant coach the same year of the documentary.

Fair enough, definitely seems like some of the upper management had issues with him, especially w.r.t. kicking Ryan-James Hand off the team.

 

[LaLaLaprise]

He dresses nice though. Curious, why?

If you watched the documentary youd know...hes a tool...probably one of the greasiest agents around...JP Larue

 

[LaLaLaprise]

He dresses nice though. Curious, why?

You'd know if you watched the documentary....hes one of the greasiest agents around...JP Larue and his lackey Christian Daigle.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

The Ryan Lehr scene (starting around 55:40) is definitely worth watching, I found it kind of sad that they mess with the kids lives like this for probably very little impact on the teams. He was a marginal player in the first place, the difference between trading him to a Maritimes team and indirectly trading him to another team in the middle of nowhere in Quebec was probably very little value, you can tell going to the Maritimes meant a lot to him but they just sort of broke him anyways. The sequence where the Baie-Comeau coach is one the phone, saying "they traded Lehr? ... to Chiquot', no way, I knew it ... ok, wait, is he around? ... this will do him in", while laughing and smiling at the kids misfortune the whole time, to me seemed pretty cold/brutal.

Yeah thanks for you and the other poster clearing up St. John shipped him to Chicoutimi not BaC. But Lehr accuses the coach of knowing St. John was gonna flip him I think but either way he was rightfully pissed.
Also holy **** I totally forget how the coach said it'd do Lehr in, god he really was as much of a doucher as I remembered.

I think you have exactly right though. It's one thing to get traded as a grown man to a team trying to gear up for the playoffs but when you're a teenager it's just not the same. Lehr was nothing more than some blueline depth for Chicoutimi and that small payoff puts the kid through so much hardship, especially in the Q where language barriers play a factor. I mean Lehr did have the option to not report, which he considered, so it's not like these suits are handcuffing him across the French-speaking parts of Canada but I just think you have it right with how reprehensibility it was done and how there's a big disparity between the influence a move has on a teen, say versus an NHLer, that makes you really feel for these kids and wonder if sometimes a move just isn't worth it.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

He dresses nice though. Curious, why?

Because of the opening scene where he's getting in Breault's head for his own monetary gain. And then half hour later the coach who's a moron is even able to spell out just how terrible it is for agents to do things like that and worse when players listen. Breault was looked down by the coaching staff at one point. They didn't like his game and after pestering him for awhile he slowly admitted his agent had been telling him to shoot more and that if he doesn't keep shooting out there he's never gonna get drafted or make it. The coaching staff couldn't figure out why he was just firing the pick and not using his linemates but the viewers knew what was up after that first scene where you see the agent.

 

[SergeConstantin74]

You'd know if you watched the documentary....hes one of the greasiest agents around...JP Larue and his lackey Christian Daigle.

He must have lost a lot of clients or 'futur' client since the documentary. I know he was Samuel Groulx's agent and after the movie came out, he wasn't anymore.

 

[BLBarmada]

Just to clarify the GM in Baie-Comeau now is Ateve Ahern, he's done a fine job and the team there is on the rise.

 

[backdoorpass]

there was one done on rds as well for chicoutimi i believe, anyone have video for that?

 

[ponder]

there was one done on rds as well for chicoutimi i believe, anyone have video for that?

Yeah, I'd like to see that too, anyone got a link?

 

[Chainshot]

I remember when they did this. It explained a bit of the issue around Breault. Considering Buffalo's issues at center have gone on nearly 5 years, if the kid had done what the coaches wanted and played to win rather than attempting to follow bad advice, he likely would've at least gotten a pro contract. Such is life.

 

[Adonis Creed]

Just watched this way way late. It's fascinating to see all the cliche there

The future stud with no IQ who take all the dump decisions aka Breault and even getting into CIS was a miracle...he failed classes and his playing hockey in Europe to pay the bills.

The hockey groupies who are all over the young kids

Small town police and city who has nothing except the hockey team...a bit like Friday Night Lights

Hard typical coach..

A true masterpiece that his still true 12 years later.