Jozef Balej vs. Peter Sejna

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kimzey59

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NYRangers said:
How many times can I say it? He made it to the AHL earlier than Sejna, yet hes 3 years younger. He outscored Sejna in the Same league too.

First off, Balej is 2 years younger than Sejna, not 3.

Secondly, So what? They both broke the NHL at the same age. Who gives a flip about the AHL? Some players have bypassed that league entirely becuase they didn't need to further enhance their skills. Sejna DID bypass the league entirely and was sent down ONLY because coach Q wanted his Defensive game to improve(Q put a leash on Sejna's offensive game, he has done this with a number of our offensive players(Hecht, Cajanek, Nagy, Handzus) over the years and that is 1 reason why I was glad to see him leave)). Therefore, you're entire "Balej broke the AHL earlier" arguement is irrelevant. Sejna broke the NHL earlier and THAT is the foundatio upon which prospects are judged, NOT the AHL. The only reason Sejna didn't stay on the NHL roster at the end of last year was that(due to the trade to get Sillinger) we were forced to pick up Savage. Otherwise Sejna would have been on the Blues PO roster and would have been playing on a Line with Weight.

Sejna is an NHL ready player, is Balej? From what I've heard he isn't quite there yet. That means that Balej will be a regular NHL'er 1 year earlier than when Sejna became a regular NHL'er. A 1 year difference is not enough to say: Balej is futher in his developement.
 

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kimzey59 said:
First off, Balej is 2 years younger than Sejna, not 3.

Secondly, So what? They both broke the NHL at the same age. Who gives a flip about the AHL? Some players have bypassed that league entirely becuase they didn't need to further enhance their skills. Sejna DID bypass the league entirely and was sent down ONLY because coach Q wanted his Defensive game to improve(Q put a leash on Sejna's offensive game, he has done this with a number of our offensive players(Hecht, Cajanek, Nagy, Handzus) over the years and that is 1 reason why I was glad to see him leave)). Therefore, you're entire "Balej broke the AHL earlier" arguement is irrelevant. Sejna broke the NHL earlier and THAT is the foundatio upon which prospects are judged, NOT the AHL. The only reason Sejna didn't stay on the NHL roster at the end of last year was that(due to the trade to get Sillinger) we were forced to pick up Savage. Otherwise Sejna would have been on the Blues PO roster and would have been playing on a Line with Weight.

Sejna is an NHL ready player, is Balej? From what I've heard he isn't quite there yet. That means that Balej will be a regular NHL'er 1 year earlier than when Sejna became a regular NHL'er. A 1 year difference is not enough to say: Balej is futher in his developement.
This is about the biggest disingenuous, peice of horsecrap I have ever read. Sejna broke into the NHL but Balej didnt? Yeah ok, thats why he played all of 20 games, all but 2 in the 1st quarter (a whopping 7 games more than Balej), where he scored all of 4 points.And yeah, ol Pete's coach muist of really put the reigns on him in Worcester where he scored an earth shattering 12 goals in 59 games.And hes an "NHL regular".? Yep, no doubt about it.

If such & such happened, he would have.... Laughable. If its & buts were peanuts & nuts, every day would be Christmas.
Lastly, according to your illogical logic a 27 year old who breaks into the NHL has more "status" ( your ridiculous "foundation" argument) than a 20 year old who hasnt. Frickin ridiculous& I am not even a Balej fan , just a guy who cant handle ridiculous arguments.
 

kimzey59

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Patrick - Flames Fan said:
If he was so "NHL Ready" why was he set down last year?


As I said, he was first sent down last year to shore up his defensive game(Q would not let him play Offense until he was playing Defense first). At the trade deadline we were forced to pick up Savage(it was a part of the Sillinger/Johnson trade). Pleau thought it would be better for Sejna to stay in the minors and get playing time. If you rember, Sejna got his late season call up a week before the TD and played in both of the Blues games before the TD. Had we not been forced to take on Savage, Sejna would have remiained in St. Louis on Weight's line. HE was NHL ready THEN. NOW, he is playing in the AHL just to get some playing time.

Sammy said:
This is about the biggest disingenuous, peice of horsecrap I have ever read. Sejna broke into the NHL but Balej didnt? Yeah ok, thats why he played all of 20 games, all but 2 in the 1st quarter (a whopping 7 games more than Balej), where he scored all of 4 points.And yeah, ol Pete's coach muist of really put the reigns on him in Worcester where he scored an earth shattering 12 goals in 59 games.And hes an "NHL regular".? Yep, no doubt about it.

If such & such happened, he would have.... Laughable. If its & buts were peanuts & nuts, every day would be Christmas.
Lastly, according to your illogical logic a 27 year old who breaks into the NHL has more "status" ( your ridiculous "foundation" argument) than a 20 year old who hasnt. Frickin ridiculous& I am not even a Balej fan , just a guy who cant handle ridiculous arguments.

1) Sejna orginally bypassed the AHL altogether. THAT IS AN UNDISPUTEABLE FACT. Balej did not(in fact, he still isn't condered NHL ready). Sejna was SENT to the AHL because his Defensive game was not up to Q's(unusually high) standards.

2) Balej played in his first NHL game only 1 year earlier than Sejna did(and that was an injury callup). Once again, is a 1 year difference THAT big?

3) I was given to believe that NHL readiness was how players were compared, not by AHL readiness. For somebody to say "Balej is better cause he got into the AHL sooner" changes how prospect are supposed to be compared. Sejna, while he may be 2 years older than Balej, is currently NHL ready(if the season were to start up on time, Sejna WOULD be on the Blues roster). From I have heard, Balej is NOT currently NHL ready yet but WILL be NHL ready by the end of the year. From that, the 2 prospects are just over a year different in their developement paths. Are YOU really trying to tell me that a 1 year difference in developement makes up THAT big a difference between players?

4) Nice try at distortion there. We aren't talking about a MASSIVE difference in developement, we're talking about a 1 year difference. Balej and Sejna's developements are only 1 year apart, that in and of it self is not enough for somebody to say " Balej is lightyears ahead of Sejna in terms of developement". If you perfer Balej, fine, but base it on a REAL basis of comparisson, not AHL readiness. As I said, some players bypass the AHL altogether. Does that mean that anybody who played in the A is better than somebody who didn't? Try telling that to Rick Nash. The AHL is simply 1 path of player developement, it is not a basis for comprisson unless you are using their points(in which case you do have to consider that Sejna was sent down after the AHL season had already started and had to develope chemistry with his teammates while Balej was given a full training camp and season to develope chemistyr with his teammates). NYRangers did NOT use that as his basis for comparrisson, he used their AHL readiness to compare them and quite frankly, that is a joke.
 

degroat*

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Reveille said:
Sorry that the opinion by many is that Balej is better.

And how many of that 'many' have actually seen both players play enough to actually make a credible assessment?
 

Hunter Gathers

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Stich said:
And how many of that 'many' have actually seen both players play enough to actually make a credible assessment?

It seems a decent number have. I know I have. And I like both prospects, but I would take Balej any time right now. And I don't see it as much of a decision.
 

NYR469

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kimzey59 said:
Sejna DID bypass the league entirely and was sent down ONLY because coach Q wanted his Defensive game to improve

newsflash--if sejna was sent back down that means that he was NOT ready for the nhl. it doesn't matter if it was to work on his defensive game, defense is part of the game and if he was NHL ready like you claim then he would have needed to be sent down to work on that.

being 'nhl ready' doesn't mean being able to score if you cherry-pick and aren't asked to actually play hockey

and what good is it to 'bypass' the AHL if making the jump to right to the NHL just proves that you aren't nhl ready and should have been in the AHL to start...players like kovalchuk and heatley who never stepped foot in the ahl bypassed that league. the fact that sejna got a cup of coffee in the nhl before going down instead of starting in the ahl from day 1 does not...
 

DuklaNation

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Sejna is a little small for the NHL, he looks 5'9 to me and shys away from contact. Decent shot. Poor defensive skills. He is quite old for a prospect. His time is now to make it or at least put up big numbers in the AHL.

Balej has decent size. Excellent speed and offensive skills. A little erratic. Has already put up a solid year in the AHL with a pt/game. He looked impressive in his brief time with NY late last year. Plus he is only 22.

I'd take Balej hands down.
 

SneakerPimp82

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DuklaNation said:
Sejna is a little small for the NHL, he looks 5'9 to me and shys away from contact. Decent shot. Poor defensive skills. He is quite old for a prospect. His time is now to make it or at least put up big numbers in the AHL.

Balej has decent size. Excellent speed and offensive skills. A little erratic. Has already put up a solid year in the AHL with a pt/game. He looked impressive in his brief time with NY late last year. Plus he is only 22.

I'd take Balej hands down.

Sejna may be 5'9, but he's almost 200 pounds, about 10 pounds heavier than Balej. Sejna is also a pretty good skater with a very good shot. You choose Balej simply based on his age, that's understandable. But to act like Sejna is completely outskilled and is "smaller" than Balej isn't warranted at all.
 

SneakerPimp82

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NYR469 said:
newsflash--if sejna was sent back down that means that he was NOT ready for the nhl. it doesn't matter if it was to work on his defensive game, defense is part of the game and if he was NHL ready like you claim then he would have needed to be sent down to work on that.

being 'nhl ready' doesn't mean being able to score if you cherry-pick and aren't asked to actually play hockey

and what good is it to 'bypass' the AHL if making the jump to right to the NHL just proves that you aren't nhl ready and should have been in the AHL to start...players like kovalchuk and heatley who never stepped foot in the ahl bypassed that league. the fact that sejna got a cup of coffee in the nhl before going down instead of starting in the ahl from day 1 does not...

Okay, anybody who saw Kovalchuk in his rookie year and even his sophomore year knows that he wasn't defensively responsible AT ALL. He was freakin benched by his coach because of his defensive weaknesses. One could argue that he wasn't NHL ready, defensively. The same is true for Sejna, it's just that Quenneville chose to send Sejna down to work on defense. Now I'm not saying that Sejna is in the same offensive skill level as Kovalchuk, but Sejna can score despite what people here believe.
 

degroat*

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DuklaNation said:
Sejna is a little small for the NHL, he looks 5'9 to me and shys away from contact. Decent shot. Poor defensive skills. He is quite old for a prospect. His time is now to make it or at least put up big numbers in the AHL.

Balej has decent size. Excellent speed and offensive skills. A little erratic. Has already put up a solid year in the AHL with a pt/game. He looked impressive in his brief time with NY late last year. Plus he is only 22.

I'd take Balej hands down.

They're both listed at the same height... 5'11. Which means neither is actually 5'11 and Sejna has the weight advantage.

And your assessment of Sejna is horribly wrong. He doesn't shy away from contact. He'll take hits to make plays and go into traffic. Based on that comment, I have to wonder if you've even seen him play or just based your opinion on a stereotype.
 

Bacchus

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SneakerPimp82 said:
Okay, anybody who saw Kovalchuk in his rookie year and even his sophomore year knows that he wasn't defensively responsible AT ALL. He was freakin benched by his coach because of his defensive weaknesses. One could argue that he wasn't NHL ready, defensively. The same is true for Sejna, it's just that Quenneville chose to send Sejna down to work on defense. Now I'm not saying that Sejna is in the same offensive skill level as Kovalchuk, but Sejna can score despite what people here believe.

So basically you say yourself that he wasn't NHL ready - defensively?
 

Beukeboom Fan

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SneakerPimp82 said:
Okay, anybody who saw Kovalchuk in his rookie year and even his sophomore year knows that he wasn't defensively responsible AT ALL. He was freakin benched by his coach because of his defensive weaknesses. One could argue that he wasn't NHL ready, defensively. The same is true for Sejna, it's just that Quenneville chose to send Sejna down to work on defense. Now I'm not saying that Sejna is in the same offensive skill level as Kovalchuk, but Sejna can score despite what people here believe.

First, let me say that I'd like to have either player on my team.

Call me crazy - but if Sejna was able to produce offensively, why did he only have 2g & 2a for 20 games? That would put him on pace to score 8g & 8a for a full season. He was also getting 15 minutes a night, which is pretty decent icetime for a rookie. Add in ALL of his points came on the PP, and I think that anyone could make a case that it was just Sejna's defense that got him sent to the AHL.

Also, the Blues were desperate all year for someone to step up and score on the 2nd line winger positions. Hell, they went so far as to give Brian Savage a chance (free or not!)!

I think that Sejna just needed some time to adjust to the pro game. I do think that it's a HUGE assumption though to say that he was ready offensively, but just wasn't polished enough defensively.
 

Habsaku

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Balej is highly skilled but I sometimes doubt his Hockey sense, much like Richard Zednik. He may be bigger but hes not strong at all, hes a weak player.<

I'd be inclined to take balej though.
 

SneakerPimp82

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Franz said:
So basically you say yourself that he wasn't NHL ready - defensively?

I'm saying that his coach sent him down when other coaches could have done differently. If he was on a different team he might have stayed at the NHL level and increased his production, THAT'S what i'm saying. Like kimzey said, Quennevwhich puts a great strain on offensive minded prospects.
 

SneakerPimp82

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Beukeboom Fan said:
First, let me say that I'd like to have either player on my team.

Call me crazy - but if Sejna was able to produce offensively, why did he only have 2g & 2a for 20 games? That would put him on pace to score 8g & 8a for a full season. He was also getting 15 minutes a night, which is pretty decent icetime for a rookie. Add in ALL of his points came on the PP, and I think that anyone could make a case that it was just Sejna's defense that got him sent to the AHL.

Also, the Blues were desperate all year for someone to step up and score on the 2nd line winger positions. Hell, they went so far as to give Brian Savage a chance (free or not!)!

I think that Sejna just needed some time to adjust to the pro game. I do think that it's a HUGE assumption though to say that he was ready offensively, but just wasn't polished enough defensively.


I don't know if you noticed, but last year the entire Blues team struggled offensively the entire season, that had more than a little to do with Sejna's numbers. Like you said, they even took a flyer on Brian "the Savior" Savage, that tells you how desperate they were for offense. I believe he was ready offensively, but the anemic Blues offense didn't help much at all.
 

Hunter Gathers

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Habsaku said:
Balej is highly skilled but I sometimes doubt his Hockey sense, much like Richard Zednik. He may be bigger but hes not strong at all, hes a weak player.<

I'd be inclined to take balej though.

He's played VERY strong in Hartford and his brief stint with NYR. Never shyed away from physical contact and harder to move off the puck than most players of his type. He also likes to use his stick a bit and will play dirty if he has to in order to get free.
 

Kardi

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i can't stop watching that goal, IMO balej is far far far better then Sejna.. but Sejna is still a very good player that could put up big numbers in the nhl in the future
 

DuklaNation

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Stich said:
They're both listed at the same height... 5'11. Which means neither is actually 5'11 and Sejna has the weight advantage.

And your assessment of Sejna is horribly wrong. He doesn't shy away from contact. He'll take hits to make plays and go into traffic. Based on that comment, I have to wonder if you've even seen him play or just based your opinion on a stereotype.

NCAA always list players as bigger than they really are. Do you follow college hoops at all? I have seen Sejna play when he was with St Louis. I stand by my comment.
 

Dr.Sens(e)

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Sejna was given ample time on Weight's line, including some Powerplay time. He was sent down partially because of his defensive play, but also because he wasn't burying the biscuit.

To me, it's a close call. Balej's performance in the AHL last season though, was more impressive than that of Sejna, so I'd go with Balej by a hair. I sure do like Sejna's shot though...
 
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