Player Discussion Josh Norris C 6’1”

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Why is everyone afraid to talk about Norris as a first line centre in the NHL? The kid is a blue chip prospect who looked really good at Michigan and at the World Juniors before he got hurt, and is now absolutely killing it as a 20 year old first year pro in the AHL. Why can't he be our first line centre of the future? It's so funny how we as fans always want to slot a prospect low - "Hopefully he can be a bottom pairing guy for us", "Solid third liner", etc. etc. To heck with that - at this stage, Norris looks like he could be a first line, first unit PP NHL centre, and he should get every opportunity to prove that he can do just that.

Because slotting a player too high leads to unrealistic expectations, and disappointment when the player doesn't meet them. Better to set a reasonable goal - both for him and us.

 

[Icelevel]

Why is everyone afraid to talk about Norris as a first line centre in the NHL? The kid is a blue chip prospect who looked really good at Michigan and at the World Juniors before he got hurt, and is now absolutely killing it as a 20 year old first year pro in the AHL. Why can't he be our first line centre of the future? It's so funny how we as fans always want to slot a prospect low - "Hopefully he can be a bottom pairing guy for us", "Solid third liner", etc. etc. To heck with that - at this stage, Norris looks like he could be a first line, first unit PP NHL centre, and he should get every opportunity to prove that he can do just that.

I’m not afraid. Come at me bro (but I’d still say 2C as a safer bet)

 

[h2]

Very impressive what he is doing this year. We have a player here.

 

[Larionov]

I’m not afraid. Come at me bro (but I’d still say 2C as a safer bet)

What I'm saying is that someone has to play on the first line, and barring us landing Byfield he has as good a shot of anyone in the organization, or anyone we might draft this year. Heck, we came within a goal of going to the Cup Final in 2017 with Turris and Brassard as our top two centres. I'm feeling pretty good about Norris having a better career than both of those guys...

 

[Daffy]

What I'm saying is that someone has to play on the first line, and barring us landing Byfield he has as good a shot of anyone in the organization, or anyone we might draft this year. Heck, we came within a goal of going to the Cup Final in 2017 with Turris and Brassard as our top two centres. I'm feeling pretty good about Norris having a better career than both of those guys...

Turris was pretty damn good for us..

 

[TheDebater]

If Norris can become a 50 point 2nd line center for us, that would be outstanding. Hope he gets a few games up with the big club soon

Are you kidding me, 50 points would be outstanding? You realize Chris freaking Tierney had 48 last season and is on pace for about 40 points again this season. Tierney.

Norris scoring only 10 points more points than Tierney would not be impressive at all and if that is his potential then colour me disappointed.

Now if you want to set the bar low, I would have agreed with you at ~60-65 points as a 2nd line center, but as @Larionov mentioned, Norris is currently tearing up the AHL as a rookie so if we want "outstanding", he would have to become a 70+ point centre for us. Something we have not had since Spezza by the way.

 

[aragorn]

I'm looking forward to seeing Norris at some point this yr in Ottawa along with Formenton. My guess is that Norris should be a permanent player in Ottawa by this point next season once Tierny & Anisimov are moved out. I expect him to start his NHL career either on LW or on a 3rd line centre spot.

Formenton - Norris - Pinto could be a future great line.

 

[swiftwin]

Are you kidding me, 50 points would be outstanding? You realize Chris freaking Tierney had 48 last season and is on pace for about 40 points again this season. Tierney.

Norris scoring only 10 points more points than Tierney would not be impressive at all and if that is his potential then colour me disappointed.

Now if you want to set the bar low, I would have agreed with you at ~60-65 points as a 2nd line center, but as @Larionov mentioned, Norris is currently tearing up the AHL as a rookie so if we want "outstanding", he would have to become a 70+ point centre for us. Something we have not had since Spezza by the way.

That's because you guys think way too low of Tierney. I swear, nobody on this team get more unjustified hate than Tierney. He's a solid middle-6 player.

 

[JungleBeat]

Lol I’m a fan of Tierney.

 

[TheDebater]

That's because you guys think way too low of Tierney. I swear, nobody on this team get more unjustified hate than Tierney. He's a solid middle-6 player.

I have no issue with Tierney, other than the fact he is a pretty underwhelming player. Most players have a specific skill you can point to that they do really well and stand out because of it, Tierney has none.

His playing style is very dull, as he is not a fast skater, does not hit much, his playmaking is average and his shot is just satisfactory. I almost rarely notice him until he scores a goal and that is rarely a "compliment" when it comes to forwards.

My point was, take all of that, and now remember he is on pace for 40 points, somehow. Meaning if a player with limited offensive skills and talent (compared to Norris) can put up 40-50 points, then expectations for a player with the pedigree of Norris who is (for now) displaying elite skill, the bar should be set way higher.

I am not a Tierney hater, he just makes me feel very indifferent about him.

 

[DueDiligence]

That's because you guys think way too low of Tierney. I swear, nobody on this team get more unjustified hate than Tierney. He's a solid middle-6 player.

Tierney is a solid 3rd line player. Heck he has virtually better or equivalent production this year than any Leaf 3rd liner; a team with alot more firepower and forward talent.

 

[slamigo]

It will be interesting to see how a prospect (Norris) slots into an NHL spot after just completely OWNING the AHL. That kid won't have an ounce of doubt. Swagger for dayz.
Next Fall is going to be interesting with all the AHL stars and possibly a couple very, very high draft picks.

 

[Daffy]

Are you kidding me, 50 points would be outstanding? You realize Chris freaking Tierney had 48 last season and is on pace for about 40 points again this season. Tierney.

Norris scoring only 10 points more points than Tierney would not be impressive at all and if that is his potential then colour me disappointed.

Now if you want to set the bar low, I would have agreed with you at ~60-65 points as a 2nd line center, but as @Larionov mentioned, Norris is currently tearing up the AHL as a rookie so if we want "outstanding", he would have to become a 70+ point centre for us. Something we have not had since Spezza by the way.

Yeah I'd be pumped if he becomes a solid 50 point player for us. 50 points on the 2nd line is a really good player.

 

[Icelevel]

Yeah I'd be pumped if he becomes a solid 50 point player for us. 50 points on the 2nd line is a really good player.

70-80 on the first line is even better!

 

[TheDebater]

Yeah I'd be pumped if he becomes a solid 50 point player for us. 50 points on the 2nd line is a really good player.

Hey listen, good for you, I am not about to start telling people where to set their expectations on a 20 year old AHL player at the moment and most NHL fans learn the hard way when they set the bar too high anyway.

My perspective is simply that with Norris' pedigree and the way he is currently playing in the AHL, I definitely have raised my expectations from "50 point center" to "70 point center" and the reason being the following list:

Some of last season's 50 point players:

Dzingle - 56
Bailey - 56
Hayes- 55
Neiderreiter- 53
Tuch- 52
Gallagher- 52
D. Brown- 51
Palmieri - 50

Just a few names to give you an idea of what a "50 point" player in the NHL is like, and I want to clarify that if Norris' ceiling is that, then no problem he will still be a useful player but in my honest opinion, I would be lying if I said I would not be a little disappointed.

 

[Micklebot]

Hey listen, good for you, I am not about to start telling people where to set their expectations on a 20 year old AHL player at the moment and most NHL fans learn the hard way when they set the bar too high anyway.

My perspective is simply that with Norris' pedigree and the way he is currently playing in the AHL, I definitely have raised my expectations from "50 point center" to "70 point center" and the reason being the following list:

Some of last season's 50 point players:

Dzingle - 56
Bailey - 56
Hayes- 55
Neiderreiter- 53
Tuch- 52
Gallagher- 52
D. Brown- 51
Palmieri - 50

Just a few names to give you an idea of what a "50 point" player in the NHL is like, and I want to clarify that if Norris' ceiling is that, then no problem he will still be a useful player but in my honest opinion, I would be lying if I said I would not be a little disappointed.

Just to add some context, here's what some of those same players did in their rookie AHL year:

Dzingle - 34 pts in 66 games as a 21 yr old
Bailey - NA (skipped the AHL)
Hayes - NA (skipped the AHL)
Neiderreiter- 50 pts in 70 gp as a 20 yr old
Tuch- 37 pts in 57 as a 20 yr old
Gallagher- 20 pts in 36 games as a 20 yr old
D. Brown- 74 pts in 79 games as a 20 yr old
Palmieri - 51 pts in 62 games as a 19-20 yr old.

 

[JD1]

Just to add some context, here's what some of those same players did in their rookie AHL year:

Dzingle - 34 pts in 66 games as a 21 yr old
Bailey - NA (skipped the AHL)
Hayes - NA (skipped the AHL)
Neiderreiter- 50 pts in 70 gp as a 20 yr old
Tuch- 37 pts in 57 as a 20 yr old
Gallagher- 20 pts in 36 games as a 20 yr old
D. Brown- 74 pts in 79 games as a 20 yr old
Palmieri - 51 pts in 62 games as a 19-20 yr old.

A little more context

Bailey went straight from junior to the NHL.

Hayes spent 4 years in college and went straight to the NHL.

Using all those guys as a barometer.....seems like Norris could be putting up several 50 point seasons as a floor

 

[Hale The Villain]

This link shows how impressive Norris' production has been in his 20YR old season: Elite Prospects - AHL Stats All-time season

Only 20YR olds with a higher PPG than Norris with a decent amount of games played are Getzlaf, Perry, Kucherov, Strome, Couture, Brassard and Palmieri.

 

[DaveMatthew]

This link shows how impressive Norris' production has been in his 20YR old season: Elite Prospects - AHL Stats All-time season

Only 20YR olds with a higher PPG than Norris with a decent amount of games played are Getzlaf, Perry, Kucherov, Strome, Couture, Brassard and Palmieri.

Norris has been really impressive, and I think he's going to be a solid 65+ point center for a long time here.

However, you have to factor in that in the NHL of the last 10 years, most future all-stars are already in the NHL at 20 years old.

Even if you look at his draft year, you have Heiskanen, Makar and Pettersson who've already established themselves as superstars. And then guys like Hischier, Necas, Suzuki, Thomas, Chytil and Yamamoto who are already contributors at the NHL level.

 

[TheDebater]

Norris has been really impressive, and I think he's going to be a solid 65+ point center for a long time here.

However, you have to factor in that in the NHL of the last 10 years, most future all-stars are already in the NHL at 20 years old.

Even if you look at his draft year, you have Heiskanen, Makar and Pettersson who've already established themselves as superstars. And then guys like Hischier, Necas, Suzuki, Thomas, Chytil and Yamamoto who are already contributors at the NHL level.

True but Norris has zero NHL games played so his situation is unique. It is not as if he got tried at the NHL level and was sent down to get better, we still do not even know what he can do if given the chance so I would not use that concept as an indication of how he compares to the players you mentioned.

Keep in mind he was also injured after he was drafted, and then he gets traded to a new team where management does not necessarily know enough about him, hence why he is placed in the AHL to be observed and classified.

Technically speaking he is being developed better than all of those guys because scoring a ton in the AHL will only give you confidence that you can do similar at the NHL level too.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I'm on the side of "let's see how he performs in the NHL before throwing out long term projections".

So far so good, that is more than enough for me.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Being excited is exciting! Good feelings are good!

 

[TheDebater]

I'm on the side of "let's see how he performs in the NHL before throwing out long term projections".

So far so good, that is more than enough for me.

What you are saying is...Norris is not winning the Art Ross next season?? That sucks.

 

[JD1]

Norris has been really impressive, and I think he's going to be a solid 65+ point center for a long time here.

However, you have to factor in that in the NHL of the last 10 years, most future all-stars are already in the NHL at 20 years old.

Even if you look at his draft year, you have Heiskanen, Makar and Pettersson who've already established themselves as superstars. And then guys like Hischier, Necas, Suzuki, Thomas, Chytil and Yamamoto who are already contributors at the NHL level.

You're right about that.

The flip side is that Norris was out from the WJC thru training camp. He wore a non contact jersey in dev during the summer.

So, spending 6 months rehabbing a shoulder as opposed to playing a 1/2 season and then strength training really robbed him of the opportunity to be in the NHL.

I am not saying he would be here, just that he never had a chance to be here. Who knows, he might have made the team and had a 30 point rookie season scenario

 

[jbeck5]

I have no issue with Tierney, other than the fact he is a pretty underwhelming player. Most players have a specific skill you can point to that they do really well and stand out because of it, Tierney has none.

His playing style is very dull, as he is not a fast skater, does not hit much, his playmaking is average and his shot is just satisfactory. I almost rarely notice him until he scores a goal and that is rarely a "compliment" when it comes to forwards.

My point was, take all of that, and now remember he is on pace for 40 points, somehow. Meaning if a player with limited offensive skills and talent (compared to Norris) can put up 40-50 points, then expectations for a player with the pedigree of Norris who is (for now) displaying elite skill, the bar should be set way higher.

I am not a Tierney hater, he just makes me feel very indifferent about him.

What about playmaking? He can put up 30-35 assists which is what second liners with more pp time put up while he's just a middle 6 player. So he packs a bigger playmaking punch than most middle six players.

So you can now point to that skill.