Josh Leivo

Trapper

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Nov 21, 2013
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there was room enough (IMO) to play Leivo in place of Hyman. I would argue that it still exists.

Last season: we could have easily iced:

Nylander-Matthews-Brown
JVR-Bozak-Marner
Komarov-Kadri-Leivo
Martin-GOAT/Boyle-Kappy

and instantly be a better team (IMO)

I still do not see why Hyman deserves a spot over Leivo in an offensive role

Because despite what people think of Hyman, he is multi purpose where Leivo has not proven to be (at least to Babcock).
Players like Hyman,Brown,Sosh,Kappy,Leivo,Rychel, etc. Have to prove they have more than 1 bullet in the chamber. Extreme work ethic, speed, PK, defense whatever.
Leivo can play with the skilled forwards but did not show the other aspects to Babcock.
This is why Kappy was 4th line RW over Leivo. He was able to PK and brought speed. More weapons. Hyman provides the additional attributes.
 

ShaneFalco

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Jul 15, 2012
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Because despite what people think of Hyman, he is multi purpose where Leivo has not proven to be (at least to Babcock).
Players like Hyman,Brown,Sosh,Kappy,Leivo,Rychel, etc. Have to prove they have more than 1 bullet in the chamber. Extreme work ethic, speed, PK, defense whatever.
Leivo can play with the skilled forwards but did not show the other aspects to Babcock.
This is why Kappy was 4th line RW over Leivo. He was able to PK and brought speed. More weapons. Hyman provides the additional attributes.

I get all that but then you see guys like JVR floating most nights with no consequences. Actually I guess that isn't true as his ice time, even in the playoffs was reduced.
Leivo isn't a 4th line guy, and Babcock told him to work on his skating, which apparently he has. Just give the guy a legit shot should he earn it again.

Some of these bodies have to go though......
 

ToneDog

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I get all that but then you see guys like JVR floating most nights with no consequences. Actually I guess that isn't true as his ice time, even in the playoffs was reduced.
Leivo isn't a 4th line guy, and Babcock told him to work on his skating, which apparently he has. Just give the guy a legit shot should he earn it again.

Some of these bodies have to go though......

JVR put up pretty good numbers "floating most nights". Can you imagine what he could do if he played hard every night ?
 

X66

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JVR under Babcock hasn't been this floater that people claim, at least imo. He's been terrific under babs
 

ToneDog

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After using an expansion draft spot on him, I'm under the impression they'd like to keep him around. I hope they do, I like the guy.

Leivo is another one of those players who don't have Babs in their corner. Unless he impresses in the preseason and keeps working hard when he gets his shot, he'll be a healthy scratch most of this season.
 

Mugzy97

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Mar 3, 2015
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Leivo is another one of those players who don't have Babs in their corner. Unless he impresses in the preseason and keeps working hard when he gets his shot, he'll be a healthy scratch most of this season.

Yes I agree with you, but a quick injury or a trade and that changes very fast.
 

ToneDog

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Yes I agree with you, but a quick injury or a trade and that changes very fast.

Agreed. An injury could be what opens the door for Leivo to demonstrate to Babs that he can do it over a larger sample size. Odds are Leafs are not as lucky with injuries as they were last year (knock on wood).
 

Battle Lin

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Dec 18, 2015
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with the roster as is without changes, leivo makes team as 13th forward...but imo kapanen is 1st in line if any1 goes down other than moore or maybe our other centers if willie doesnt fill in, if a center goes down smith or fehr gets the call up...kappy has passed leivo imo, kapanen for sure plays if hyman, brown, or leo gets hurt cause of the PK
 

al secord

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Jun 26, 2013
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I wonder how many pages a Steve Bancroft thread would have garnered if HFboards existed in the 80's/early 90's?
 

rojac

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After using an expansion draft spot on him, I'm under the impression they'd like to keep him around. I hope they do, I like the guy.

All using the expansion spot means is that they liked him better than Rychel and Leipsic (or about the same and they just threw a dart). It's not like they left valuable players unprotected to protect him.
 

Knies iT

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Mar 6, 2015
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JVR under Babcock hasn't been this floater that people claim, at least imo. He's been terrific under babs
You can't be serious. Aside from offense, this is the worst he's been in his career. Most disengaged i've ever seen him in his own zone. Borders on pathetic at times.
 

PromisedLand

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Dec 3, 2016
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Because despite what people think of Hyman, he is multi purpose where Leivo has not proven to be (at least to Babcock).
Players like Hyman,Brown,Sosh,Kappy,Leivo,Rychel, etc. Have to prove they have more than 1 bullet in the chamber. Extreme work ethic, speed, PK, defense whatever.
Leivo can play with the skilled forwards but did not show the other aspects to Babcock.
This is why Kappy was 4th line RW over Leivo. He was able to PK and brought speed. More weapons. Hyman provides the additional attributes.

Hyman is a good role player, grinder and PKer BUT not an offensive player.
 

X66

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You can't be serious. Aside from offense, this is the worst he's been in his career. Most disengaged i've ever seen him in his own zone. Borders on pathetic at times.

Agree to disagree.
 

Trapper

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Nov 21, 2013
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Hyman is a good role player, grinder and PKer BUT not an offensive player.

Actually Hyman does have offense, just not results.
He always seems to get breakaways (especially short handed) and good chances. He needs to work on finish.
He had 156 shots on goal compared to Brown with 139. Brown scored 20 goals, we wouldn't be talking about this if Hyman scored 18-20.
He also had 4 points in 6 games come playoff time. The important season.
At present Babcock will always play Hyman over Leivo.
 
Last edited:

Nithoniniel

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Sep 7, 2012
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Best I've seen JVR was in our tank season, in my opinion. Really put in a good effort, and produced well without an additional offensive dynamo on his line.

Don't think he was as bad last season as he was in the final Kessel-year either.
 

hd1344

Registered User
Nov 16, 2012
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Like Leivo, just needs opportunity. Hopefully he had an "NHL summer" and worked on his skating to improve his stock in the eyes of Babs. 15 points in 25 games of limited duty the past 2 years is nothing to sneeze at.

With the near-likelihood that he would get claimed, he will be the 13th/14th forward along with Fehr, IMO.

In the event of injuries, he could slot in to a top 9 winger spot, while Fehr spots the Centres (lack of Marlies depth an issue keeps him on the roster.)
 

Randy Randerson

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Jul 28, 2016
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Actually Hyman does have offense, just not results.
He always seems to get breakaways (especially short handed) and good chances. He needs to work on finish.
He had 156 shots on goal compared to Brown with 139. Brown scored 20 goals, we wouldn't be talking about this if Hyman scored 18-20.
He also had 4 points in 6 games come playoff time. The important season.
At present Babcock will always play Hyman over Leivo.

I think the positive light that usually gets shed on guys who generate shots/chances is because that typically turns into goals, but in Hyman's case it really didn't and the eye test would sorta indicate that won't change imo - guy had a lower shooting % on breakaways that most do on aggregate

It's probably moot unless someone gets traded - Marleau/JVR/Komarov are almost definitely the top 3 LW's and Hyman has a great skillset as a 4th liner, plus there's always the Babcock preference

really hope that once there's a top 9 LW spot that Leivo or Kapanen get a shot over Hyman, at least to see if it's better than with Hyman
 

Trapper

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I think the positive light that usually gets shed on guys who generate shots/chances is because that typically turns into goals, but in Hyman's case it really didn't and the eye test would sorta indicate that won't change imo - guy had a lower shooting % on breakaways that most do on aggregate

It's probably moot unless someone gets traded - Marleau/JVR/Komarov are almost definitely the top 3 LW's and Hyman has a great skillset as a 4th liner, plus there's always the Babcock preference

really hope that once there's a top 9 LW spot that Leivo or Kapanen get a shot over Hyman, at least to see if it's better than with Hyman

Ideally I think Hyman should be a long term Leo replacement, (riding shotgun with Kadri) we need someone like a Tkachuk with Matthews on the LW. Or yes someone with more finish/grease who can play the Hyman role. But we don't have that and with Nylander on one side, Hyman gets the nod over a JVR for line requirements despite JVRs superior offense. JVR must be placed in a more sheltered scoring position.
 

Randy Randerson

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Ideally I think Hyman should be a long term Leo replacement, (riding shotgun with Kadri) we need someone like a Tkachuk with Matthews on the LW. Or yes someone with more finish/grease who can play the Hyman role. But we don't have that and with Nylander on one side, Hyman gets the nod over a JVR for line requirements despite JVRs superior offense. JVR must be placed in a more sheltered scoring position.

I think it's Marleau who plays with Matthews and Nylander. Could see Hyman as a long term 3rd liner, but could also see him getting pushed down if Grundstrom/Rychel turn out

I like JVR in a role that the defensive warts are hidden too
 

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