Player Discussion: Josh Ho-Sang Pt II

[LeapOnOver]

Just wait until MDC breaks out on an epic scoring streak. You'll soon see MDC Jerseys in the stands.

I know you are very gung-ho for MDC. I'm glad you are so confident. I like what I see from him after writing him off, but I still continue to have guarded expectations. I think with the right mentoring and line combinations he could be a decent 2nd or 3rd line checker that chips in offense. A young Andrew Ladd maybe?

 

[LeapOnOver]

you think a team is going to offer a 1st round pick for him, a 3rd rounder at best is what the Islanders are going to get if they put Ho-Sang on the market, or a Sebastian Collberg esque player

Do I think a team would offer a first for a guy who lead the AHL in assists, when a team offered a first for a player that proved absolutely squat in the AHL and NHL? Why yes, I think it's possible a team would offer a first for JHS. Maybe not likely, but certainly possible.

Let's not forget once you step out of a vacuum and keyboard trades that it's possible for a player to be packaged in a deal.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

I didn't gloss over that. I read it. But your last paragraph made it pretty clear that your believe this rumor.

It's like when my wife gets cut-off by a guy in a BMW or something, she makes up this whole narrative about him, like he thinks he's better than everyone and doesn't have to follow the rules of the road and is mean to his wife and is spoiled and his parents probably helped him pay for that car and he probably has a nice car but lives in a shitty apartment.

Then, I'm like, "maybe he just didn't see you".

 

[YearlyLottery]

It's like when my wife gets cut-off by a guy in a BMW or something, she makes up this whole narrative about him, like he thinks he's better than everyone and doesn't have to follow the rules of the road and is mean to his wife and is spoiled and his parents probably helped him pay for that car and he probably has a nice car but lives in a ****ty apartment.

Then, I'm like, "maybe he just didn't see you".

I'm sure that goes over well.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

I've felt that way before this rumor surfaced - and quite frankly, this is not the court of law where folks are innocent until proven guilty. It really isn't farfetched given his track record. Now you tell me Dal Colle is having behavorial issues and I'll take it with a grain of salt.

As LeapOn mentioned, he can't seem to do what it takes to stick in the NHL. Unsubstantiated or not, It makes me believe that Ho-Sang is either an egomaniac or just a moron. If he was absolutely blowing management and coaching staff out of the water with his character and play, he wouldn't be in the AHL.

I share your concerns. But by all accounts recently, he seems to be buying what Trotz is selling and hasn't made any waves lately. I'm just surprised that a rumor out of left field has caused such hatred and venom.

 

[CREW99AW]

I share your concerns. But by all accounts recently, he seems to be buying what Trotz is selling and hasn't made any waves lately. I'm just surprised that a rumor out of left field has caused such hatred and venom.

I think the JHS critics would rather see him fail and run around saying " told you he was selfish,told you he was immature" then grudgingly see this kid succeed.
So yeah ,they eat these rumors up.

 

[Metnut]

Two big games for BPT @ division leading Charlotte coming up tonight and tomorrow. Hopefully the kid has calmed down and refocused a bit after the surprising and surely disappointing demotion. Putting some points on the board and playing disciplined hockey versus stiff competition would be a great way for him to start pushing for his next promotion (or increasing his trade value).

 

[Konk]

I share your concerns. But by all accounts recently, he seems to be buying what Trotz is selling and hasn't made any waves lately. I'm just surprised that a rumor out of left field has caused such hatred and venom.

I'm still holding judgement, but if it's true I'm just disappointed more than anything else. Because he did seem to really be "getting it" this time. It'd be a shame if he took another step back into the same behaviors that earned him his reputation. Especially after it appeared he worked so hard to reverse it...

 

[DalGoal4Cups]

I know you are very gung-ho for MDC. I'm glad you are so confident. I like what I see from him after writing him off, but I still continue to have guarded expectations. I think with the right mentoring and line combinations he could be a decent 2nd or 3rd line checker that chips in offense. A young Andrew Ladd maybe?

Far from and Andrew Ladd. MDC has elite hands and size down low. Much better passing and overall IQ. Ladd is more of an old school gritty grinder with a good shot.

MDC was a pure savage in the AHL this year. I watched all his games. Toews and MDC were always the best players on the ice.

 

[Costigan77]

I think the JHS critics would rather see him fail and run around saying " told you he was selfish,told you he was immature" then grudgingly see this kid succeed.
So yeah ,they eat these rumors up.

I'm a Ho-Sang critic


I'd rather see him make me eat my words, and help the TEAM win the cup.

 

[CREW99AW]

I'm a Ho-Sang critic


I'd rather see him make me eat my words, and help the TEAM win the cup.

Then you are a rare one cause most JHS crirics act as if he pissed in their cornflakes.
I have read plenty of fan/blogger rumors over the last 3-4 seasons about the isles washing their hands on JHS and moving on, but cannot find any credible sources.

And recall the time Snow shopped Hamonic ,trying to keep it quiet?Another GM leaked the news.

Shopping a talented ,but polarizing youngster....very hard to believe none of Staple ,Gross,LeBrun,Friedman or McKenzie are not going to report it.

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

Funny how I’m being labeled a hater when historically I’ve been one of his biggest defenders in this forum.

Wake up and smell the coffee. It’s not hatred, its reality, the kid can’t stick in the NHL

He was sent back down and Trotz went on record saying that old habits were creeping back into his game.

I was behind JHS and thought it was rediculous a guy with that much skill could be sidelined. Now that I’m in a management role at work, I realize that all the skill in the world does not make someone a good employee. Failure and disregard for guidelines/policies is intolerable, for many reasons.

 

[Costigan77]

Then you are a rare one cause most JHS crirics act as if he pissed in their cornflakes.
I have read plenty of fan/blogger rumors over the last 3-4 seasons about the isles washing their hands on JHS and moving on, but cannot find any credible sources.

And recall the time Snow shopped Hamonic ,trying to keep it quiet?Another GM leaked the news.

Shopping a talented ,but polarizing youngster....very hard to believe none of Staple ,Gross,LeBrun,Friedman or McKenzie are not going to report it.

I have to disagree. Lamoriello is a lock box. Gross noted when he covered the Devils every move was a shock. Not sure Kovalchuk to the Devils (trade) was on anyone's radar.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Funny how I’m being labeled a hater when historically I’ve been one of his biggest defenders in this forum.

Wake up and smell the coffee. It’s not hatred, its reality, the kid can’t stick in the NHL

He was sent back down and Trotz went on record saying that old habits were creeping back into his game.

I was behind JHS and thought it was rediculous a guy with that much skill could be sidelined. Now that I’m in a management role at work, I realize that all the skill in the world does not make someone a good employee. Failure and disregard for guidelines/policies is intolerable, for many reasons.

Obviously the kid has things to work on which is why he is in the AHL. But there's a difference between needing more coaching and development (which is exactly what the AHL is for) and an "intolerable disregard for guidelines/policies."

 

[xIsle]

Far from and Andrew Ladd. MDC has elite hands and size down low. Much better passing and overall IQ. Ladd is more of an old school gritty grinder with a good shot.

MDC was a pure savage in the AHL this year. I watched all his games. Toews and MDC were always the best players on the ice.

That's fine, but it's the AHL not the NHL. Andy Hilbert (a 37th overall pick) too was a great offensive player in the AHL (just like MDC at the same age). But the best he could do in the NHL was to be a 3rd line player. Success in the AHL is far from a guarantee of success in the NHL.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

I'm sure that goes over well.

I've learned over the years that a healthy marriage is built upon the strong twin pillars of honesty and understanding. Mine is built atop a smoldering heap of scorn and contempt.

 

[Metnut]

From Staple's chat today:


Sal T.
1h ago
Do you give any merit to the JHS rumors at this point?

Arthur Staple
1h ago
@Sal T. I asked Barry Trotz this morning and he flat out said there were no off-ice issues with Ho-Sang. I won't get into the rest of our off-the-record discussion, but what Trotz said last week the day Ho-Sang was sent down stands today: It's about performance.

 

[SI90]

From Staple's chat today:


Sal T.
1h ago
Do you give any merit to the JHS rumors at this point?

Arthur Staple
1h ago
@Sal T. I asked Barry Trotz this morning and he flat out said there were no off-ice issues with Ho-Sang. I won't get into the rest of our off-the-record discussion, but what Trotz said last week the day Ho-Sang was sent down stands today: It's about performance.

Incarcerated Bob is now getting mad and basically calling fans idiots and cursing people out. He does have sources but he should understand why fans are questioning this lol

 

[Isles Fan]

True or not who would want a kid who is a marginal NHL player at best?

When you go to the game you get a totally different perspective on him. He doesn't defend, he blue line hangs. Go into the corner, ha laughable. His offensive skills aren't that impressive either. Can he stick handle, ya but stick handling doesn't turn into points. It's pretty and all but this team needs production and it's not coming from him. All one needs to do is look at his stats since he was drafted, nothing spectacular or even impressive. Guys better than him have trouble cracking an NHL line up.

He will languish in the AHL before fading away.​

No one in the league was high on this kid but the Isles and some of the fan base.

If, and it's a big if, the do unload him, they'd be lucky to get a bag of pucks for him.

 

[MJF]

Incarcerated Bob is now getting mad and basically calling fans idiots and cursing people out. He does have sources but he should understand why fans are questioning this lol

Which is why, even if his stuff is true, I will never take him or other bloggers seriously who never go in the lockerroom having to face the players and coaches every day as part of their jobs. A reporter will always be my first source of info.

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

Obviously the kid has things to work on which is why he is in the AHL. But there's a difference between needing more coaching and development (which is exactly what the AHL is for) and an "intolerable disregard for guidelines/policies."

Remember this quote:

“I do have things I need to work on down here, my game is far from perfect. It can constantly improve. But I do think a lot of the stuff was unwarranted, especially in terms of the rope that other people were given. I understand I have a history and that might be a factor. I don’t know. But it’s frustrating to me.”

When you have a "history" - people will form opinions based on that.

Now I am not his biggest fan, admittedly and this is not extremely relevant since thankfully he is gone but

“Josh has to learn how to be reliable not only on the ice but off the ice,” Snow told The Athletic. “He’s going to be held accountable like every other player in this organization and that’s why he’s in Bridgeport.”

I believe, whether or not these rumors are true that there has been damage control with JHS in the past. The organization is not going to announce his f*** ups from the rooftop everytime. I really hope the rumor is BS - I do. But logic & reason tell me theres probably a little fire when you smell smoke.

 

[Metnut]

True or not who would want a kid who is a marginal NHL player at best?

Marginal player at best? Are you entirely sure about that? Don't you think that's a bit strong? He's 22 years old. Most player hit their prime in ages 26-30. Barry Trotz seems to think he can be more than a "marginal NHL player at best"

"“Since he’s come up he’s really playing the right way and you can see he’s got real good hockey sense and he’s got the speed and the skill,” Trotz said. “But if he’s playing the way he is — [it’s] going to be hard to send him anywhere if he continues to do that.
“I gotta give him credit, I thought he was one of our better players today.”"

Yea, maybe he still has a lot of work to do and needs to be more consistent and attended to detail, but capping his upside already is pretty crazy IMO. He's 22 years old folks. Prospect development isn't always linear and setbacks happen.

NYI have put all the work in on this kid and we've (including Trotz) have seen what he can bring to the team when he's playing right. Why give him away for peanuts so some other team can enjoy his best years after we did all the work developing him? You really want to get rid of him for a "bag of pucks?" All due respect, but I hope Lou doesn't agree with you.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Marginal player at best? Are you entirely sure about that? Don't you think that's a bit strong? He's 22 years old. Most player hit their prime in ages 26-30.

I think the consensus is that NHLers peak younger than that.

“Most players hit their peak age by age 24 or 25 then decline gradually until age 30."

A New Look at Aging Curves for NHL Skaters (part 1)

But I agree with you that it is too early to write him off. He seems to be more of a project than most...

 

[Metnut]

Interesting.

I think the consensus is that NHLers peak younger than that.

“Most players hit their peak age by age 24 or 25 then decline gradually until age 30."

A New Look at Aging Curves for NHL Skaters (part 1)

But I agree with you that it is too early to write him off. He seems to be more of a project than most...

Wow interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing.

Can't say that data makes me too excited about the upcoming Anders Lee extension!

 

[seafoam]

I think the consensus is that NHLers peak younger than that.

“Most players hit their peak age by age 24 or 25 then decline gradually until age 30."

A New Look at Aging Curves for NHL Skaters (part 1)

But I agree with you that it is too early to write him off. He seems to be more of a project than most...

Most prospects in Lamoriello organizations don’t even make it to the big leagues until 24 or 25!