Player Discussion: Josh Bailey II

[PK Cronin]

That's right, we hit a second thread.

Click to read more...

 

[Felix Unger]

BTW, I thought Bailey was one of the few forwards fighting hard in the corners. So, I don't get the particular criticism about last game, except that he's not dynamic (we know that...).

 

[Bones45]

A second thread on a career third liner? This guy must be special!

 

[Lame Lambert]

Bailey was a passengeh last night.

 

[Nosebleed40]

Bailey is a piece of garbage, with a loser mentality.

 

[SDIsles34]

I thought he had an excellent first period. Then disappeared along with the rest of them.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

For the person in the previous thread talking about Marion Hossa, he had exactly ONE even strength point more than Josh Bailey last year.

Hossa currently has EXACTLY as many points as Josh Bailey.

Give it a rest.

If you're looking to complain about someone, Brian Strait is still on the team.

 

[charlie1]

I thought he had an excellent first period. Then disappeared along with the rest of them.

Yeah I thought he was one of the better forwards in the first. Didn't notice him much after that.

 

[islesfan3913]

For the person in the previous thread talking about Marion Hossa, he had exactly ONE even strength point more than Josh Bailey last year.

Hossa currently has EXACTLY as many points as Josh Bailey.

Give it a rest.

If you're looking to complain about someone, Brian Strait is still on the team.

So Josh Bailey is on the same level as Hossa now? Just when I've thought I's heard it all.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

So Josh Bailey is on the same level as Hossa now? Just when I've thought I's heard it all.

That's for you to decide. I don't make dumb declarations like that.

Someone else said something about Josh Bailey being bad while showering praise on Marion Hossa's scoring.

Well, Marion Hossa had one more EV point than Josh Bailey last year and has the same number this year. So, when people say things and don't bother to double-check it, I'm happy to provide the data.

But if you're arguments are based around posting smileys and describing your disbelief, rather than looking at production; I suppose there isn't much to do but let you rant like a crazy person.

 

[Bones45]

For the person in the previous thread talking about Marion Hossa, he had exactly ONE even strength point more than Josh Bailey last year.

Hossa currently has EXACTLY as many points as Josh Bailey.

Is this what we are doing now? Comparing Hossa to Bailey?

Whats next, Big Ben to my Casio?

 

[BroadwayJay*]

Is this what we are doing now? Comparing Hossa to Bailey?

Whats next, Big Ben to my Casio?

Someone else did it, not me.

Exactly. What does he do well ? Everyone says defense...okay so does Hossa and Towes, Bergeron, koivu, Nielsen etc but they are in the top 6 because they also bring offense and can drive the play from time to time. Bailey does not. Hence........he should not be in the top 6. I either want him on the 3rd line or off this team.

This guy is saying that Bailey doesn't bring offense, but Hossa does. THEY HAVE EXACTLY THE SAME AMOUNT OF EV POINTS!!!!

You have to really, really, really hate Josh Bailey, in the most unreasonable fashion, to consider the fact that they have THE EXACT SAME AMOUNT OF POINTS to be irrelevant to the quoted portion above.

 

[islesfan3913]

That's for you to decide. I don't make dumb declarations like that.

Except you just did. You literally compared the two in order the claim that Bailey is on the same level. There is no other explanation.

Well, Marion Hossa had one more EV point than Josh Bailey last year and has the same number this year. So, when people say things and don't bother to double-check it, I'm happy to provide the data.

Why are we even just looking at even strength points? Wouldn't playing on the PP be a testament to the ability of a player? Not even considering that is taking away a huge advantage one player has just to make a comparison seem closer. Do you honestly believe Bailey would score 60-70 points without hurting the team if he had a lot of power play time?

But if you're arguments are based around posting smileys and describing your disbelief, rather than looking at production; I suppose there isn't much to do but let you rant like a crazy person.

Sorry, but there's just no other way to respond to someone who shoots down arguements and opinions and takes takes things out of context and puts words in people's mouths without expressing disbelief. Someone who refuses to acknowledge or understand what people say are truly unbelievable.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

Except you just did. You literally compared the two in order the claim that Bailey is on the same level. There is no other explanation.

I was responding to another poster who said that the difference between Josh Bailey and Marion Hossa is that Hossa provides offense.

They provide the same amount of even strength offense.

Why are we even just looking at even strength points?

Because TOP-6 refers to a player's line at even strength.

Wouldn't playing on the PP be a testament to the ability of a player? Not even considering that is taking away a huge advantage one player has just to make a comparison seem closer. Do you honestly believe Bailey would score 60-70 points without hurting the team if he had a lot of power play time?

Don't know, don't care. Power play production is a product of time and opportunity. I don't believe or not believe anything. When someone says "top-6" it is a reference to the top two even strength lines. Plain and simple.

Sorry, but there's just no other way to respond to someone who shoots down arguements and opinions and takes takes things out of context and puts words in people's mouths without expressing disbelief. Someone who refuses to acknowledge or understand what people say are truly unbelievable.

Say what you want, but if it is wholly baseless expect to see the facts that prove the statement to be 100% incorrect. For reference, see above.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

Sorry, but there's just no other way to respond to someone who shoots down arguements and opinions and takes takes things out of context and puts words in people's mouths without expressing disbelief. Someone who refuses to acknowledge or understand what people say are truly unbelievable.

Arguments have to be based on facts. Opinions, also, have to be based on facts.

You cannot say that the difference between Bailey and Hossa is that Hossa provides offense and have that statement be treated as an "opinion" because it is a statement of fact. "Providing offense" means scoring points. Either Hossa DOES provide more offense or he DOES NOT. It isn't an opinion issue. They score the same amount of points, so the initial statement is just plain false and it is easily proven false by looking at their respective point production.

If you tell me the sky is red, I won't simply chalk it up to your opinion.

An opinion would be "Josh Bailey's haircut is ugly". That's an opinion and if you think his haircut is ugly, I may disagree with you but it is, for the most part, unassailable. To say that he provides no offense, but that Hossa does is a matter of fact and an easily disproven one at that.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

 

[BroadwayJay*]

As further reference, Marion Hossa is making $7.9m this year. His cap hit is 5.275m. Bailey makes 3.3m

 

[Abe Vukota]

When the little fire icon appears next to a Josh Bailey thread...

 

[Bones45]

I mean lets just close up everything but the Bailey, GDT, Barclays, and Capuano threads.

What else could we need?

 

[Seph]

Except you just did. You literally compared the two in order the claim that Bailey is on the same level. There is no other explanation.

He compared them on a production basis. Not all players that put up the same amount of points are equal however. Hossa is the superior defensive player by a fair margin, and that makes him a notably better player than Bailey.

However, if one views Hossa's offensive production sufficient for a top 6 forward, then it would logically indicate that Bailey's offensive production is also sufficient for a top 6 player, since their production at ES is pretty much identical. In this particular aspect of their respective play, they are comparable.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

He compared them on a production basis. Not all players that put up the same amount of points are equal however. Hossa is the superior defensive player by a fair margin, and that makes him a notably better player than Bailey.

However, if one views Hossa's offensive production sufficient for a top 6 forward, then it would logically indicate that Bailey's offensive production is also sufficient for a top 6 player, since their production at ES is pretty much identical. In this particular aspect of their respective play, they are comparable.

This right here.

Hossa is, in my view, one of the very best (if not THE second-best) defensive forwards in the league.

But if someone says the difference between Bailey and Hossa is Hossa's offensive production, well they better be prepared to back that up somehow because the stats simply do not support that statement. Hossa also makes more than twice what Bailey makes.

 

[Seph]

Exactly. What does he do well ? Everyone says defense...okay so does Hossa and Towes, Bergeron, koivu, Nielsen etc but they are in the top 6 because they also bring offense and can drive the play from time to time. Bailey does not. Hence........he should not be in the top 6. I either want him on the 3rd line or off this team.

ES production from last season to present:

Bailey 53 points in 116 games, 0.457 ppg
Nielsen 42 points in 125 games, 0.336 ppg
Bergeron 60 points in 129 games, 0.465 ppg
Toews 73 points in 133 games, 0.549 ppg
Hossa 59 points in 129 games, 0.457 ppg
Koivu 56 points in 129 games, 0.434 ppg

Aside from Toews, Bailey's production looks completely in line with all of these players. And I don't think Toews is a fair benchmark for a top 6 forward, considering that he is a top 10 forward in the league. So, if the offense they bring has been sufficient for a top 6 forward over this time period, then it would appear that Bailey's offensive production should also be considered sufficient.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

As further reference, Marion Hossa is making $7.9m this year. His cap hit is 5.275m. Bailey makes 3.3m

Maybe this should be in a trade thread. Would swap these two with no regrets. Josh really gets that much? Garth must have been back from a bender when he gave out that contract.

 

[Lame Lambert]

"It is what it is" also describes Josh Bailey.

 

[Spybot]

"It is what it is" also describes Josh Bailey.

You are correct. I still don't get how riled up can people get over a non-essential complimentary player. Unless they had high expectations for him, given his draft position. I doubt people defending Bailey would mind seeing him traded for an upgrade either, but it sometimes looks like people ragging on him think Tanner Glass is an upgrade.