Jonathan Toews or Henrik Lundqvist?

[bathdog]

Lundqvist quite easily. 10 years is a long time and Toews prime just wasn't long enough, and his peak isn't high enough to compensate for that. There certainly are a some skaters of this era I'd take over Lundqvist in a 10-year scenario, but Toews isn't one of them.

Obviously this is based on the information we have now with hindsight.

 

[illpucks]

Without casting a vote I already know this site will choose Lundqvist in a landslide because Toews is hated here

 

[Lauro]

Toews. Never liked Lundqvist.

 

[McCullogh]

Very very easily Lundqvist.
Never liked Toews at all. 10.5m LOL

 

[Fataldogg]

Lundqvist would have a Cup if even one player on his team scored 20 points in a post season run. Lundqvist did so much with so little. Toews did so much, surrounded by some of the best talent in the world.

I have no doubt in my mind that if the 13-14 Rangers had Kane, Keith, etc he would have a Cup.

I think Lundqvist is a better player than Toews based on position.

But others are right, you can win a Cup with a Niemi.

You can win it with a Lundqvist too if you don't have $18M tied up in Nash, Staal, and Girardi.

Lundqvist in his prime could have turned better constructed teams into a Kings, Penguins, Blackhawks level contender.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Voted for Toews because no matter he's still a 3x Stanley Cup Champion and Conn Smythe Trophy winner.

 

[FlyTimmo]

The goalie is the most important position in hockey. But, the reason a franchise center/defenseman might be more important is that they are less subject to large variation in play. I'd rather have Lundqvist, since you know what you are getting.

 

[JaegerDice]

I've never particularly agreed with the long-standing notion that you need elite goaltending to win. In fact, I think more often than not, the teams that rely on their goaltenders to win fail.

You just need a good goalie, or an average goalie that can get hot at the right time.

On the other hand, you definitely need an elite 1C to win. And an elite two-way C can actually significantly impact the number of shots and chances your team gives up, versus how many they generate going the other way.

Toews.

 

[PuckSeparator]

Winner vs Loser. I'll take the winner.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Well yeah that's a huge factor that has to be weighed. To use a baseball analogy, Derek Jeter's bat might not have been as valuable as David Ortiz's but you can bet your ass he was the more valuable player.

Isn't Jeter the worst defensive player relative to position in the history of baseball?

 

[Laineux]

On the other hand, you definitely need an elite 1C to win. And an elite two-way C can actually significantly impact the number of shots and chances your team gives up, versus how many they generate going the other way.

A consistently elite goalie affects how many of those shots and chances are converted into goalies against and can have a larger impact than any skater in the world.

GAR should be a relatively simple and uncontroversial stat for goalies and prime Lundqvist was easily the best goaltender of his era in that regard.

 

[COHawk]

goalie's can single-handedly win games and championships for a team. centers can't do that

I mean, theoretically yeah they could.

 

[rent free]

I mean, theoretically yeah they could.

i guess so. i guess i should have said "a goalie always gives you the best chance of winning" instead

 

[JaegerDice]

i guess so. i guess i should have said "a goalie always gives you the best chance of winning" instead

I'm pretty sure his point is that while theoretically possible, it's so unlikely as to be irrelevant.

A goalie can steal you games, no doubt. They can't steal you a cup, not in the modern NHL. You're better off building around a player that has impact all over the ice rather than one that's essentially at the mercy of how many shots the team in front of him allows.

If you were giving me a choice of goalies to build around, then Lundqvist would absolutely be at the top of the list.

But good teams don't build around their goalies first and foremost. You're better off with an elite C than an elite G.

 

[rent free]

I'm pretty sure his point is that while theoretically possible, it's so unlikely as to be irrelevant.

A goalie can steal you games, no doubt. They can't steal you a cup, not in the modern NHL. You're better off building around a player that has impact all over the ice rather than one that's essentially at the mercy of how many shots the team in front of him allows.

If you were giving me a choice of goalies to build around, then Lundqvist would absolutely be at the top of the list.

But good teams don't build around their goalies first and foremost. You're better off with an elite C than an elite G.

the knights almost won a cup relying on fleury and the kings got swept in the first round depsite having a hart candidate at C. carey price carry's the habs to the playoffs are more often than not a division title when he is healthy.

i think having a great goalie is more important than having a great center because a goalie impacts the game more imo. while they don't score goals, they can keep a team in the game by making timely saves here and there, whereas a center doesn't play the full 60 and doesn't get all the shots that their team generates. its also quite difficult to find a great goalie in the nhl because many are inconsistent. a center just needs to put up points to be declared as a 1C, which imo isn't a great way to rate them

 

[Ainec]

the knights almost won a cup relying on fleury and the kings got swept in the first round depsite having a hart candidate at C. carey price carry's the habs to the playoffs are more often than not a division title when he is healthy.

i think having a great goalie is more important than having a great center because a goalie impacts the game more imo. while they don't score goals, they can keep a team in the game by making timely saves here and there, whereas a center doesn't play the full 60 and doesn't get all the shots that their team generates. its also quite difficult to find a great goalie in the nhl because many are inconsistent. a center just needs to put up points to be declared as a 1C, which imo isn't a great way to rate them

ouch, using Kings as an example when Jonathan Quick was better than Fleury

 

[Alan Wake]

Winner vs Loser. I'll take the winner.

Have fun paying Toews 10.5 million per year over the next five seasons.

 

[Bruinswillwin77]

Henrik

 

[rent free]

ouch, using Kings as an example when Jonathan Quick was better than Fleury

fleury was amazing for the 2nd and 3rd round. thats what i was aiming at

 

[haveandare]

Yes it is. Let's look at some recent championship teams.

Who's harder to find. MAF/Matt Murray or Crosby/Malkin? Holtby or Backstrom/Kuznetsov? Tim Thomas or Patrice Bergeron? Crawford/Niemi or Toews? etc.

It's not that simple imo. "Harder to find" in a draft is undoubtedly goalies. Harder to acquire once drafted is undoubtedly centers.

 

[haveandare]

I'd go with Hank. He was better compared to his peers than Toews was compared to his when they were both at their peak.

 

[JaegerDice]

Have fun paying Toews 10.5 million per year over the next five seasons.

Small price for 3 cups. And paying 8.5 for a guy that has been outplayed by his last two backups in Talbot and Raanta is hardly screaming 'bargain of the century' at the moment either.

 

[Alan Wake]

Small price for 3 cups. And paying 8.5 for a guy that has been outplayed by his last two backups in Talbot and Raanta is hardly screaming 'bargain of the century' at the moment either.

Yeah, we'll see how you feel about that in the next few years as he continues to get worse.

 

[JaegerDice]

Yeah, we'll see how you feel about that in the next few years as he continues to get worse.

Dude, I have every game of three full cup runs saved on my computer. I can drown whatever sorrows are coming very, very, easily.

I'd have accepted the Blackhawks turning to **** after ONE cup.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Toews and it's not even close. He's proven time and time again he can get the job done when needed most.

Except for now that his team isn't as good of course. What a mystery