Player Discussion Jonathan Drouin - So comman Edition

[417]

Giroux wasn't putting up 90+ at drouin's age. His first good season(76pts) came in 2010-2011 for the majority of which he was 23 years old. Drouin won't be 24 until the last week of next season.

Not to mention...

This was Claude Giroux's supporting cast

Philadelphia Flyers 2010-11 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

This was Jonathan Drouin's supporting cast

Montreal Canadiens 2017-18 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

 

[Rafafouille]

What does talented like few players in the league mean? Is this one of those empty cliche statements? Look at the best players in the league and tell me you see the same potential in Drouin? 50 points winger doesn't even put him in the top 100! Even worse when you consider we traded a franchise PMD defenseman that we desperately needed. Even worse when you consider that we acquired Alzner, another stay at home defenseman when we already had Weber. Even worse when you consider that we have no centers so they are going to keep trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and ultimately ruin this kid the way they did with Galchenyuk, another top 3 pick. I am convinced that Bergevin says to his buddies,"Hold my beer!"every time he makes one of these boneheaded moves!

Are you really calling Sergachev a franchise PMD defenseman? That'd be a Karlsson or Subban after winning their Norris. A kid playing extremely sheltered minutes(73% offensive zone starts and only 15 minutes of ice time on average) on one of the best teams in the NHL hasn't proven anything and is nowhere close to being a franchise PMD. He couldn't still easily be a bust.

 

[Kriss E]

Giroux wasn't putting up 90+ at drouin's age. His first good season(76pts) came in 2010-2011 for the majority of which he was 23 years old. Drouin won't be 24 until the last week of next season.

Giroux is born in mid Jan 88, he put up his 76pts in 10-11, so he did it as a 22-23yo.
Drouin just finished his own 22-23yo season, he had 46pts.

So...? I said Giroux was putting up 76 and 90pt seasons at Drouin's age. So he just did the 76 one, the next year he'd put up 93pts but we all know Drouin is not going to hit that.

Arguing for the sake of it here really.

 

[Laurentide]

Are you really calling Sergachev a franchise PMD defenseman? That'd be a Karlsson or Subban after winning their Norris. A kid playing extremely sheltered minutes(73% offensive zone starts and only 15 minutes of ice time on average) on one of the best teams in the NHL hasn't proven anything and is nowhere close to being a franchise PMD. He couldn't still easily be a bust.

If Sergachev had played for the Habs last season, he'd have been left mostly to his own devices( since Weber was injured most of the season) and could have even found himself down on the farm at some point. But even if he had stayed with the big club all year, he'd have been left exposed due to this team's lack of depth and would have got owned by opposing teams as a result. And then everyone here would be bitching about how the Habs drafted another dud.

I don't recall seeing any such degree of love for Eller when he was a Hab. But put him on a Cup-caliber team and all of a sudden he's "elite". He's almost 30 and only now do people notice him. If you had called him elite or even said that he had the potential to be an elite anything when he was a Hab you'd have been laughed off of any message board on the internet. Now he deserves a plaque in the Hall of Fame. And the whining about how Smith-Belly got a raw deal in Montreal is revisionism to the point of absurdity

I'm no fan of Bergevin but some people here have lost all perspective. Now they simply look at the world in these terms: acquired by Bergevin = crap. Traded by Bergevin = elite.

 

[Kriss E]

Not to mention...

This was Claude Giroux's supporting cast

Philadelphia Flyers 2010-11 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

This was Jonathan Drouin's supporting cast

Montreal Canadiens 2017-18 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

And Giroux lead them all.
Drouin couldn't even outproduced Brendan Gallagher and Galchenyuk who was pushed down the line up all year.
Really, that doesn't help any case for Drouin..

 

[417]

And Giroux lead them all.
Drouin couldn't even outproduced Brendan Gallagher and Galchenyuk who was pushed down the line up all year.
Really, that doesn't help any case for Drouin..

I'm not trying to make a case for or against Drouin...just find it unfair and disingenuous to compare both players at the same age, as though everything else was exactly the same as well.

This team was completely dysfunctional.

I mean, I could easily say Blake Wheeler was a 38pt player at the same age as Drouin...look at the player he's turned into today.

 

[Kriss E]

If Sergachev had played for the Habs last season, he'd have been left mostly to his own devices( since Weber was injured most of the season) and could have even found himself down on the farm at some point. But even if he had stayed with the big club all year, he'd have been left exposed due to this team's lack of depth and would have got owned by opposing teams as a result. And then everyone here would be *****ing about how the Habs drafted another dud.

I don't recall seeing any such degree of love for Eller when he was a Hab. But put him on a Cup-caliber team and all of a sudden he's "elite". He's almost 30 and only now do people notice him. If you had called him elite or even said that he had the potential to be an elite anything when he was a Hab you'd have been laughed off of any message board on the internet. Now he deserves a plaque in the Hall of Fame. And the whining about how Smith-Belly got a raw deal in Montreal is revisionism to the point of absurdity

I'm no fan of Bergevin but some people here have lost all perspective. Now they simply look at the world in these terms: acquired by Bergevin = crap. Traded by Bergevin = elite.

Not sure if serious...
There were endless discussions about Eller (vs DD) over the years.

 

[Kriss E]

I'm not trying to make a case for or against Drouin...just find it unfair and disingenuous to compare both players at the same age, as though everything else was exactly the same as well.

This team was completely dysfunctional.

I mean, I could easily say Blake Wheeler was a 38pt player at the same age as Drouin...look at the player he's turned into today.

I'm not the one who brought up Giroux. LL used him as an example of an elite player who can have a bad year and bounce back. I responded that Giroux's bad year would be a career one for Drouin, and that he's a bad comparison as he was already putting up 76-90pts at Drouin's current age.


But ya, you could bring up Wheeler as someone who came into his own around the 25yo mark.

 

[theghost1]

Bergevin you need to get a high skilled #1 center or Drouin is never going to produce at a top level.....sign Larkin to an offer sheet 7 years 49 million compensation would be 2019 1st,2nd,3rd round picks....you could get those picks back...when you trade Pacioretty you are for sure getting a first ...trade Shaw get a 2nd round and trade Alzner and Schlemko and get 3rd rounders.

 

[417]

Bergevin you need to get a high skilled #1 center or Drouin is never going to produce at a top level.....sign Larkin to an offer sheet 7 years 49 million compensation would be 2019 1st,2nd,3rd round picks....you could get those picks back...when you trade Pacioretty you are for sure getting a first ...trade Shaw get a 2nd round and trade Alzner and Schlemko and get 3rd rounders.

Just wanna point out...

Dylan Larkin: 242 career games = 140pts

Jonathan Drouin: 241 games = 141pts

After a 45pt rookie season, Larkin followed it up with a 32pt sophomore season...he bounced back big time last year with 63pts though.

I wonder if Larkin was a Hab, how much patience fans would of had after his 2nd year...

 

[Miller Time]

Just wanna point out...

Dylan Larkin: 242 career games = 140pts

Jonathan Drouin: 241 games = 141pts

After a 45pt rookie season, Larkin followed it up with a 32pt sophomore season...he bounced back big time last year with 63pts though.

I wonder if Larkin was a Hab, how much patience fans would of had after his 2nd year...

probably a ton provided he wasn't acquired as a downgrade for a better asset... there are always going to be grumbles, but if you look at Galch, our last uber-talented young player, iirc he was still overwhelmingly supported by the fan base (if not by the organization) in his third year.

 

[417]

probably a ton provided he wasn't acquired as a downgrade for a better asset... there are always going to be grumbles, but if you look at Galch, our last uber-talented young player, iirc he was still overwhelmingly supported by the fan base (if not by the organization) in his third year.

Going to guess you're referring to Drouin here...

Why crap on Drouin because you're upset about the trade?

I thought the comparing to Larkin interesting because that poster views him as an elite 1st line C...

Meanwhile, his production so far is nearly identical to Drouin's.

It'll be interesting to see the views on Drouin should he have a bounce back season like Larkin had this year.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Going to guess you're referring to Drouin here...

Why crap on Drouin because you're upset about the trade?

I thought the comparing to Larkin interesting because that poster views him as an elite 1st line C...

Meanwhile, his production so far is nearly identical to Drouin's.

It'll be interesting to see the views on Drouin should he have a bounce back season like Larkin had this year.

Shitting on Druin is typical misplaced anger. He's been great and considering he's been playing a position he's not used to playing in a year when we lost our top players, I have nothing bad to say about him. His only downside is he isn't a center, which isn't his fault. the blame falls squarely on Bergevin who traded a top asset for another top asset. There's no arguing Drouin is now a better and more productive player than Sergachev is, especially considering the teams they play for. Begervin should have used Sergachev to get that elusive center he hasn't been able to get instead of a winger he's trying to convert to a center.

If Drouin plays the wing (which I hope he does) this year, I think we'll see a much more comfortable player who's confidence will grow and flourish at his natural position and his skill will shine. No doubt, he's incredibly skilled. He just needs to be put in a position to shine which he hasn't been afforded yet.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

is there any chance Drouin lives up to his pre-draft hype? or at least become a legit 1st liner?

I didn't (couldn't bear to) watch much last year. I heard he got a bit better at the end. Could a switch back to wing and playing with a legit C (we'll have to be patient there) get him anywhere near his ceiling?

 

[Belial]

is there any chance Drouin lives up to his pre-draft hype? or at least become a legit 1st liner?

I didn't (couldn't bear to) watch much last year. I heard he got a bit better at the end. Could a switch back to wing and playing with a legit C (we'll have to be patient there) get him anywhere near his ceiling?

He was not even that bad considering he was put in a tough situation and the whole team played like crap.

After he came back from his injury he took a couple of games to get going and then produced at a decent pace for the rest of the season, he got 28 points in his last 41 games even if his linemates were changing all the time.

He finished the season even stronger with 13 points in his last 14 games...

That whole line did well actually, Byron(7P)-Drouin(13P)-Gally(13P).

 

[habs73]

He was not even that bad considering he was put in a tough situation and the whole team played like crap.

After he came back from his injury he took a couple of games to get going and then produced at a decent pace for the rest of the season, he got 28 points in his last 41 games even if his linemates were changing all the time.

He finished the season even stronger with 13 points in his last 14 games...

That whole line did well actually, Byron(7P)-Drouin(13P)-Gally(13P).

I hope he is given the opportunity to shine, put him in situations where he can score points and worry less about the 200 foot game. The talent is there and we need him to be our point producer..

 

[kgboomer]

I always have the same problem comparing Drouin with a guy like Larkin for example. It's all good comparing points, Marc Andre Bergeron had lots of points too. Same for Souray.

It's comparing points 5 vs 5 and not counting all the points on power plays which made a huge difference. Almost half the points of Drouin are PP, and it was the same his last season with the Bolts. Larkin doesn't even have the amount of pts in 3 full season on the PP with the Wings as Drouin has with his last season with the Habs. More and more, Drouin looks like a power play specialist and that's about it. He needs all the space given to him with that. Hopefully we will see a nice progression this season but it's getting a little bit worrisome.

 

[NobleSix]

I want to like Drouin, I really do, but if he puts out the same half baked lazy entitled asshole routine it's going to be hard.

Hoping he has a good year next year because our roster is pretty well devoid of high end skill apart from him, and he's still a young guy who could still be a part of what we should be building.

 

[Habs Icing]

I always have the same problem comparing Drouin with a guy like Larkin for example. It's all good comparing points, Marc Andre Bergeron had lots of points too. Same for Souray.

It's comparing points 5 vs 5 and not counting all the points on power plays which made a huge difference. Almost half the points of Drouin are PP, and it was the same his last season with the Bolts. Larkin doesn't even have the amount of pts in 3 full season on the PP with the Wings as Drouin has with his last season with the Habs. More and more, Drouin looks like a power play specialist and that's about it. He needs all the space given to him with that. Hopefully we will see a nice progression this season but it's getting a little bit worrisome.

I was one of the biggest Drouin detractors but I don't understand this reasoning. What does it matter when and in what situations a player scores his points as long as he scores them. IF JD is a PP specialist and plays excellent defensively 5v5, who cares? The problem with JD was that he was atrocious on the defensive side, didn't know how to play center and had a serious attitude problem. If he fixes those three problems I could care less if he scored ALL his points on the PP.

 

[blarneylad]

Not to mention...

This was Claude Giroux's supporting cast

Philadelphia Flyers 2010-11 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

This was Jonathan Drouin's supporting cast

Montreal Canadiens 2017-18 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

This is looking into the future, but I'm interested to see how Barzal does now that he will be the number one focus of opposing teams without having Tavares as that 1-2 punch.

My guess is a drop in numbers for Barzal because supporting cast matters. Defensive matchups matter.

 

[habsfan909]

\ IF JD is a PP specialist and plays excellent defensively 5v5, who cares? The problem with JD was that he was atrocious on the defensive side, didn't know how to play center and had a serious attitude problem. If he fixes those three problems I could care less if he scored ALL his points on the PP.

Moving him back to the wing, where he belongs, fixes some of the problems.

 

[kgboomer]

I was one of the biggest Drouin detractors but I don't understand this reasoning. What does it matter when and in what situations a player scores his points as long as he scores them. IF JD is a PP specialist and plays excellent defensively 5v5, who cares? The problem with JD was that he was atrocious on the defensive side, didn't know how to play center and had a serious attitude problem. If he fixes those three problems I could care less if he scored ALL his points on the PP.

Well you said it yourself, he's atrocious defensively. +/- stat is far from a reliable stat but it says a lot about his game. 22 out of his 46 pts on the power play, and -28. A year before, 26 of his 53 pts on the PP playing with Kucherov and -13. There's more than just his attitude problems and playing C. And it looks like it's the same reason Cooper once benched him in the playoff, and wanted him in the minor a year later. If he keeps on going this way, he's a one trick pony just like Marc-Andre Bergeron.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

Going to guess you're referring to Drouin here...

Why crap on Drouin because you're upset about the trade?

I thought the comparing to Larkin interesting because that poster views him as an elite 1st line C...

Meanwhile, his production so far is nearly identical to Drouin's.

It'll be interesting to see the views on Drouin should he have a bounce back season like Larkin had this year.

There's actually a lot of reasons to crap on Drouin.

Let's not pretend like the main reason people are upset about Drouin is because he was traded for Sergachev. It got worse as the season progressed but a lot of people was excited to see Drouin joining the Habs. I was one of them and it took about 30 games to see what kind of player he is. Not saying that he won't improved but people are upset about Drouin for many reasons. When the french media questions the work ethic of a french canadian, you know it's bad.

Drouin poor production was not because he's not good enough, or because he was misused, or his linemates sucked, it was poor simply because he didn't work hard enough.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I think a lot of Drouins "effort" on the ice was due to him trying to be in position playing center. I've seen plenty of Drouin before last year, and never before did I see the floating that we all witnessed before then.

 

[groovejuice]

There's actually a lot of reasons to crap on Drouin.

Let's not pretend like the main reason people are upset about Drouin is because he was traded for Sergachev. It got worse as the season progressed but a lot of people was excited to see Drouin joining the Habs. I was one of them and it took about 30 games to see what kind of player he is. Not saying that he won't improved but people are upset about Drouin for many reasons. When the french media questions the work ethic of a french canadian, you know it's bad.

Drouin poor production was not because he's not good enough, or because he was misused, or his linemates sucked, it was poor simply because he didn't work hard enough.

I think it's understated how being forced to centre affected Drouin's, and the team's season. Had someone with a brain iced last year's team, the first line could have been Drouin - Galchenyuk - Radulov, or plausibly swap in Pacioretty and have 2nd line as Drouin - Danault - Gallagher. Either case is a marked improvement.

You don't trade Sergachev for Drouin to ice a considerably worse team, and guarantee that by working to move Chucky and flushing Radulov.

Disaster Artist.