Player Discussion Jonathan Drouin II

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David Suzuki

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Aug 25, 2010
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So, business as usual? :laugh:

Fwiw the only reason anyone here should bring up Sergachev's struggles is to highlight how silly it is to judge a trade of two <25 year old players so quickly. Many last year (myself included) called it the worst trade of Bergevin's tenure. I guess we/I need to be more patient :sarcasm:
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
68,164
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Definitely feels like Drouin is on the verge of busting through. And it speaks to his talent level that he's on pace for 70 points and is still only scratching the surface...

I said it all along, we won't see the true potential from Drouin until we surround him with better talent. Domi for example is one prime example. We need a few more offensive players though.
 
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DramaticGloveSave

Voice of Reason
Apr 17, 2017
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I said it all along, we won't see the true potential from Drouin until we surround him with better talent. Domi for example is one prime example. We need a few more offensive players though.
I think Weber returning will be huge. Drouin is doing what he's doing 5on5, if we can get the PP back to top 10 level the points will be pouring in for Drouin.
 

WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
770
I said it all along, we won't see the true potential from Drouin until we surround him with better talent. Domi for example is one prime example. We need a few more offensive players though.
\
Drouin's true potential will only be revealed when the moon is full, the clock strikes midnight, and he plays shotgun next to McDavid and Crosby and they can't score and can only pass to him and also the other team is my sister's atom C team from Lac St Louis. Only then will we see The True Drouin.

Good job carrying this cherry picked complaint from a large post for several post now. The original point has been overlooked. Can you remember it now? :laugh:
What cherry picking? Those trashing a non-Habs player are the ones who are making bad arguments.

Those who say that Sergachev has yet to match Drouin's output are flat out wrong. He's already outproduced Drouin relative to their positions.
 

Habs Halifax

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I think Weber returning will be huge. Drouin is doing what he's doing 5on5, if we can get the PP back to top 10 level the points will be pouring in for Drouin.

I hope you are right. But I'm not counting on Weber to solve all of our problems cause I think the creates a trap of expectations and extra pressure. This don't usually end up well. My main focus at the moment is how our D looks like when Weber, Petry, Juulsen are all in the line-up. I really do want to see the Habs to try two things....

1) Move Petry to the left side and pair him with Juulsen when he is healthy

2) Explore the market for a young potential LD guy who has similar potential like Juulsen did. Bean fits IMO. I would use parts like Mete, Scherbak, and one of our 2nd's. I would also consider using Poehling if the piece or pieces coming back the other way was a similar talent at LD.

The D needs to improve. Or I guess we have another tank year. Our 5/5 play is entertaining to watch so we can enjoy that while hopefully we rest Price as much as we can and his patience is not tested too much.
 

Leon Lucius Black

Registered User
Nov 5, 2007
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We are seeing a lot more positives with his game lately and there is starting to be more consistency which is great to see. His effort levels have been better, he's not backing down from physical play and he's producing a lot more at even strength. Of course he still makes some dumb plays with the puck and will do other stuff that makes you shake your head, but overall compared to last year he's shown major improvement.
 
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Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
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\
Drouin's true potential will only be revealed when the moon is full, the clock strikes midnight, and he plays shotgun next to McDavid and Crosby and they can't score and can only pass to him and also the other team is my sister's atom C team from Lac St Louis. Only then will we see The True Drouin.

What cherry picking? Those trashing a non-Habs player are the ones who are making bad arguments.

Those who say that Sergachev has yet to match Drouin's output are flat out wrong. He's already outproduced Drouin relative to their positions.

1) Drouin don't deserve your hate. He is talented and yes, he plays a soft game like Gaudreau does.

2) It is cherry picking cause it was one line cherry picked from a larger post. You forgot about that cause you have tunnel vision. I will recall your memory, it was a year to year evaluation and what each player needs to do to outperform the other. You picked one year where I said Sergachev needs to get 40 pts to match Drouin's 53. I asked you for your formula to compare a top 6 forward to a D man who has offensive skills but struggles in his own end? You continued on with the belittle attempts.

3) The only thing Sergachev has done to outperform Drouin was to get off on a very strong start last season. He had a solid year in his 1st year on that deep team. But he has yet to crack the top 4D and Tampa don't trust him enough in his own end to give him more opportunity. Drouin is certainly out producing Sergachev this year. You can fight it all you want
 
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DramaticGloveSave

Voice of Reason
Apr 17, 2017
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I hope you are right. But I'm not counting on Weber to solve all of our problems cause I think the creates a trap of expectations and extra pressure. This don't usually end up well. My main focus at the moment is how our D looks like when Weber, Petry, Juulsen are all in the line-up. I really do want to see the Habs to try two things....

1) Move Petry to the left side and pair him with Juulsen when he is healthy

2) Explore the market for a young potential LD guy who has similar potential like Juulsen did. Bean fits IMO. I would use parts like Mete, Scherbak, and one of our 2nd's. I would also consider using Poehling if the piece or pieces coming back the other way was a similar talent at LD.

The D needs to improve. Or I guess we have another tank year. Our 5/5 play is entertaining to watch so we can enjoy that while hopefully we rest Price as much as we can and his patience is not tested too much.
The D has been better the last couple of games, say what you want about Alzner, but him taking Ouellettes minutes have changed things dramatically.

We should certainly explore the LD trade market, just becomes a question of what we'd give up. Trading Poehlng would be kind of tough for me, but I can see the rationale- just gotta be sure the guy we are getting back is a stud.

Also Mete has quietly been playing alot better the last few games, and has even created some great offensive chances. I wouldn't give up and sell low on him yet. He's the last guy we should trade right now.
 

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
Jun 6, 2010
20,339
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Sergachev has a better pedigree and has proven more than Mete has. I wouldn't dump Mete away but he's not looking like he's going to amount to much.

He is the 8th youngest D man to play a game in the NHL this season. He's undersized. His ES production is better than Girard, Sergachev, Mahura, Valimaki, etc. His underlying numbers are more than decent. He's been playing well.

Saying that "he's not looking like he's going to amount to much" is WAY too premature. Most guys his size take time to learn how to compensate in the NHL and that's an ongoing process.

And I don't even buy completely buy the pedigree argument. Draft position doesn't matter at all once the draft is finished. I'm not trading Mete for Juolevi for one. Sergachev has more upside because he has a better toolbox and has shown more in the NHL overall, not because of pedigree.
 
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WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
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1) Drouin don't deserve your hate. He is talented and yes, he plays a soft game like Gaudreau does.

2) It is cherry picking cause it was one line cherry picked from a larger post. You forgot about that cause you have tunnel vision. I will recall your memory, it was a year to year evaluation and what each player needs to do to outperform the other. You picked one year where I said Sergachev needs to get 40 pts to match Drouin's 53. I asked you for your formula to compare a top 6 forward to a D man who has offensive skills but struggles in his own end? You continued on with the belittle attempts.

3) The only thing Sergachev has done to outperform Drouin was to get off on a very strong start last season. He had a solid year in his 1st year on that deep team. But he has yet to crack the top 4D and Tampa don't trust him enough in his own end to give him more opportunity. Drouin is certainly out producing Sergachev this year. You can fight it all you want
1) When Drouin produces like Gaudreau, lemme know

2) I was responding to your one post.

3. Drouin had a mediocre year on the same stacked team, and followed it with a bad year, and now this year. Let's see where Drouin's strong start ends up.

I actually want him to perform and progress, he's a Habs player and he's clearly talented. I don't like the constant comparisons with Sergachev and the denials that it's been a bad trade so far. That's my angle here. Just admit it was a bad trade and hope for the best, how hard could it be? Why do you have to compare him to Johnny freaking Gaudreau?
 

WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
770
He is the 8th youngest D man to play a game in the NHL this season. He's undersized. His ES production is better than Girard, Sergachev, Mahura, Valimaki, etc. His underlying numbers are more than decent. He's been playing well.

Saying that "he's not looking like he's going to amount to much" is WAY too premature. Most guys his size take time to learn how to compensate in the NHL and that's an ongoing process.
His shot is awful and that partly why he's not getting PP time, but you raise a good point. Let's see how he develops.
 

JuicyHam

Registered User
Dec 16, 2013
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His shot is awful and that partly why he's not getting PP time, but you raise a good point. Let's see how he develops.
Yeah to me if he doesn't improve his shot he's pretty useless at the point on the PP as it's no threat. If he is going to get PP time I think we'd have to roll 2 D. Something that I think we should look into when Weber comes back.
 

Saundies

Fly On The Wall
Jun 8, 2012
2,806
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Drouin is a good player, but he is not in the tier of an Alex Kovalev and trying to put him there right now just isn't fair to him. Kovalev could take over games offensively and QB a powerplay flawlessly. Drouin right now as our PP QB hasn't exactly worked so far (not saying it's entirely his fault, just saying). Plus we're currently winless in 3 on 3 this year... Can you imagine Alex Kovalev in 3 on 3 situations? It would be insane.

It's really easy to say that they're both offensively skilled players who are inconsistent, but Kovalev was almost more frustrating because you knew how good he was and could be when he'd take the night off. With Drouin, you think and hope he can be a game breaker, but he hasn't exactly proved he can be yet aside from that playoff series with Tampa.

Potential alone doesn't make a player. I think Drouin is finally starting to realize that and put out more consistent efforts.
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
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The D has been better the last couple of games, say what you want about Alzner, but him taking Ouellettes minutes have changed things dramatically.

We should certainly explore the LD trade market, just becomes a question of what we'd give up. Trading Poehlng would be kind of tough for me, but I can see the rationale- just gotta be sure the guy we are getting back is a stud.

Also Mete has quietly been playing alot better the last few games, and has even created some great offensive chances. I wouldn't give up and sell low on him yet. He's the last guy we should trade right now.

I'm not as much as a Alzner hater than others. I understand his game. I just don't like his vision and ability to move the puck. He is decent in terms of shutdown ability when he is playing his position and not clutching and grabbing.

I'm high on Poehling as well. But I'm open to trading him at this stage if the return on LD was worth it.

I'm not high on Mete. He is a target for other teams to focus on in our own end. The kid needs to get a lot more stronger and to maintain a very high level of play in terms of puck moving. I think he is a decent piece but not a piece I would be using in my Stanley cup potential roster.
 

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
Jun 6, 2010
20,339
13,876
His shot is awful and that partly why he's not getting PP time, but you raise a good point. Let's see how he develops.

Which is a valid criticism to his game. But, again, he's 20. And his shot doesn't need to be THAT much better, he needs to learn how to pick his spots. Which is an experience thing.
 

DramaticGloveSave

Voice of Reason
Apr 17, 2017
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I'm not as much as a Alzner hater than others. I understand his game. I just don't like his vision and ability to move the puck. He is decent in terms of shutdown ability when he is playing his position and not clutching and grabbing.

I'm high on Poehling as well. But I'm open to trading him at this stage if the return on LD was worth it.

I'm not high on Mete. He is a target for other teams to focus on in our own end. The kid needs to get a lot more stronger and to maintain a very high level of play in terms of puck moving. I think he is a decent piece but not a piece I would be using in my Stanley cup potential roster.
Petry to me is the most tradeable asset. I also think we should be able to find our LD in this draft.
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
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Petry to me is the most tradeable asset. I also think we should be able to find our LD in this draft.

I agree about Petry. 2 approaches in direction...

1) Move Petry to the left side and acquire another LD to play with Weber. This is about now vs later and how much we are exposing Price. I'm not sure about how much patience he will have with the D in front of him.

2) Focus on the future and tank this year. In this case, yes, Petry is the best piece to get that young LD who can be a future top 4D.

Just depends on what you personally prefer in our direction
 
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Mario le Magnifique

Habs apologist, closet Pens fan
Dec 6, 2007
3,459
644
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No offense but, the bold part is so obvious that they're no need for him to answer the question, i dont think there is one poster here who takes his comment regarding JD seriously

:laugh::laugh:

I know, I just want this behavior to stop by calling it out, these defamatory posts should get reported and deleted ASAP. They are unecessary.
 

Grate n Colorful Oz

Hutson Hawk
Jun 12, 2007
35,310
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This was before he got an injury in LA, correct? Seems largely irrelevant now.

How is it irrelevant when it's a cautionary tale? It's as if you are unable to see and understand how the conversation was logically going.

Here, I'll take you by the hand and explain it simply.

Somebody says Drouin has 42 points in his last 43 games, that's not a small sample size.

I answer Chucky had 60/60 once and people said it wasn't enough of a sample.

My answer is meant to show caution, that another young player once did even better and he ended-up being unable to reach the same level once again.

How is that irrelevant. Saying it's irrelevant now is just beside the point I was making. All this should be obvious.
 
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