Johnson V Barker V Phaneuf V Bouwmeester

[Pepper]

While I also rated Johnson fourth (since he hasn't played college hockey yet), he's not as far behind as you make him out to be.

At this point he's miles behind those three, whether he can close the gap is debatable.

 

[CurtisJD13]

Phaneuf = Class of his own...next "great one" on the defensive side of the puck.
Barker probably next, just because Johnson and Bouwmeester to me seem like just offensive guys, -ie- Brian Leetch, wheras Barker seems more like a Pronger type guy.
I'd put Bouwmeester ahead of Johnson, just because he's a little older, and a little bit bigger.

 

[not quite yoda]

Dude, one time, Dustin Rose quarterbacked the Toronto Argonauts to 32 conescutive Grey Cups, then retired to a career in professional bowling where he then bowled 4026 Perfect Games in a row. He is truly the greatest man to ever live, and that is why the capital of Canada is called Dustin Roseville to this day

No he didn't. Dude! Dustin Rose is only 16!

 

[Letang fan 58]

A little consistency would be nice. Phaneuf and Barker aren't professionals either, yet in Phaneuf's case you rate him ahead of a player who has played well at the NHL level and represented Canada in international events at the senior level.

Barker isnt at a pro level thats very true.........however.......Phaneuf has been at a pro level for the last 2 years..........ask anyone whos seen him play more than one time...........Phaneuf's breakout year has been said to be after his draft year.....I disagree the year he was drafted he was an absolute MONSTER all year long for Red Deer.....he didnt get enough cred in red deer until Woywitka was gone....he was the leader of that team right from age 17 though.

I hope people are right and Jack Johnson is as good as they think....being a Pens fan we may end up with him if we dont get Crosby so I do hope he turns out great...I just dont see it yet....if he was that good why did gogiloski make the US team and not JJ.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Barker isnt at a pro level thats very true.........however.......Phaneuf has been at a pro level for the last 2 years..........ask anyone whos seen him play more than one time...........Phaneuf's breakout year has been said to be after his draft year.....I disagree the year he was drafted he was an absolute MONSTER all year long for Red Deer.....he didnt get enough cred in red deer until Woywitka was gone....he was the leader of that team right from age 17 though.

I hope people are right and Jack Johnson is as good as they think....being a Pens fan we may end up with him if we dont get Crosby so I do hope he turns out great...I just dont see it yet....if he was that good why did gogiloski make the US team and not JJ.

The fact remains, Phaneuf and Barked aren't professionals and shouldn't be rated ahead of Bouwmeester.

 

[MojoJojo]

JBo has played in the NHL, but IMO hasnt really done anything to warrant the "we cant compare them because they havent played in the NHL" shtick. If JBo had been dominant right out of the gates, then sure such a statement would be justified, but he really wasnt. Phaneuf is pretty much guaranteed a shot at playing in the NHL straight out of Juniors, a feat which just about equals what JBo has done so far in his career (perhaps more so considering how much stronger Calgary's D is compared to Florida's).

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

The fact remains, Phaneuf and Barked aren't professionals and shouldn't be rated ahead of Bouwmeester.

If you think they'll end up better than J-Bo then it would be foolish not to rate them higher. I don't understand your logic.

Phaneuf would have played in the NHL this year, Sutter has gone on record saying it.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

If you think they'll end up better than J-Bo then it would be foolish not to rate them higher. I don't understand your logic.

Phaneuf would have played in the NHL this year, Sutter has gone on record saying it.

None of that matters. Phaneuf, Barker, and Johnson have not played one game of professional hockey. Bouwmeester has, and has played well enough to represent Canada at the World Cup. I think it's ridiculous to put a prospect ahead of him, regardless of how highly touted he is. For the record, I think Phaneuf deserves his status as one of the best prospects, but at the same time, the expectations being heaped upon him by many are a bit unreasonable.

 

[Letang fan 58]

None of that matters. Phaneuf, Barker, and Johnson have not played one game of professional hockey. Bouwmeester has, and has played well enough to represent Canada at the World Cup. I think it's ridiculous to put a prospect ahead of him, regardless of how highly touted he is. For the record, I think Phaneuf deserves his status as one of the best prospects, but at the same time, the expectations being heaped upon him by many are a bit unreasonable.

Chris Chelios is in the NHL and once was a phenomenal defenceman.......by your logic we cant at this point say that Phaneuf is better than him?

 

[BlackJack21]

Wow... lol

I havent been here for a while... Nice to see Martin Skoula's puck poise and Dustin Rose are still around!!! lol

I cant see how J-Bo is not the guy at this point at least.
IMO he's definately the most talented of the group and he as the better size.

Soo:

J-Bo
.
.
Phaneuf
Johnson
.
.
.
.
.
Barker

BJ21

 

[MojoJojo]

Chris Chelios is in the NHL and once was a phenomenal defenceman.......by your logic we cant at this point say that Phaneuf is better than him?

Hell, you could say the same thing about Chris Therien. He's played in the NHL, so therefore must be on a completely different plane of hockey talent than all these nobody prospects everyone keeps talking about.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Chris Chelios is in the NHL and once was a phenomenal defenceman.......by your logic we cant at this point say that Phaneuf is better than him?

Poor example, as I would maintain that Phaneuf wouldn't be as effective in his first year in the NHL as a 43 year old Chelios. My point is that Bouwmeester has shown that he can excel at the NHL level, and as such deserves to be rated higher than a prospect, regardless of how highly touted he is.

 

[MojoJojo]

Poor example, as I would maintain that Phaneuf wouldn't be as effective in his first year in the NHL as a 43 year old Chelios. My point is that Bouwmeester has shown that he can excel at the NHL level, and as such deserves to be rated higher than a prospect, regardless of how highly touted he is.

How has he excelled? I thought his rookie season(s) was something of a disappointment after all the hype. Certainly you cant say he has excelled based on his statistics (hasnt scored much for an offensive defenseman, and has one of the worst plus minus on the team both seasons). I've probably seen him in a half dozen games, and I cant say he really impressed me at all. I know i'm probably opening a can of worms here, and there are going to be a bunch of fans defending him now. He definately has the talent to dominate at the NHL level, but so far he has not.

 

[Pepper]

Poor example, as I would maintain that Phaneuf wouldn't be as effective in his first year in the NHL as a 43 year old Chelios. My point is that Bouwmeester has shown that he can excel at the NHL level, and as such deserves to be rated higher than a prospect, regardless of how highly touted he is.

I'd use the same logic to put Johnson below the others as he has been playing on a level which is clearly inferior to WHL.

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

My point is that Bouwmeester has shown that he can excel at the NHL level, and as such deserves to be rated higher than a prospect, regardless of how highly touted he is.

I'm not sure Bouwmeester has excelled at the NHL level. He's been pretty good considering his age but it's not like he's a dominant defensemen yet.

So your point is that anybody who's made the NHL should be ranked ahead of prospects? That's what I'm getting out of your argument.

 

[Sammy*]

I'm not sure Bouwmeester has excelled at the NHL level. He's been pretty good considering his age but it's not like he's a dominant defensemen yet.

So your point is that anybody who's made the NHL should be ranked ahead of prospects? That's what I'm getting out of your argument.

Possibly triue, but he sure has excelled against the elite in the world.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I'd use the same logic to put Johnson below the others as he has been playing on a level which is clearly inferior to WHL.

I agree with you on that, which is why I rated Johnson fourth out of the players mentioned in this thread.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I'm not sure Bouwmeester has excelled at the NHL level. He's been pretty good considering his age but it's not like he's a dominant defensemen yet.

So your point is that anybody who's made the NHL should be ranked ahead of prospects? That's what I'm getting out of your argument.

Is Phaneuf a better player than Wade Belak? I think so, but that doesn't mean he's better than Bouwmeester. I was only going by the players mentioned mentioned in this thread. I'm only interested in comparing Phaneuf to Bouwmeester. Everyone else is putting words in my mouth.

 

[Habsfan 32]

Possibly triue, but he sure has excelled against the elite in the world.

He sure did. His play at the World Championships was great for the two years he went and at the World Cup last year he played like a 30 year old veteran. I was really impressed by his play. His skating is so smooth it's amazing.

 

[DuklaNation]

Phaneuf
Bouwmeester
Johnson
Barker

 

[Hadoop]

J-Bo
.
.
Barker
Phaneuf
.
Johnson


Just a hunch......

 

[triggrman]

Suter
Hamhuis
Weber.


No I'm not bias

 

[Mike Krushelnyski]

So your point is that anybody who's made the NHL should be ranked ahead of prospects? That's what I'm getting out of your argument.

Actually... I'm going to go out on a limb here and say "yes"... that's true. Taking absolutely nothing away from Phaneuf - who *should* be a domininant force for the Flames and in the NHL for years to come - until they actually play in an NHL game and perform, there are no guarantees. We all know that for every Joe Thornton or Rick Nash, there's a Pat Falloon or a Jason Bonsignore.

A highly touted prospect may have the potential to be a far superior player than say a Wade Belak, but at this point I would argue that Belak is ahead of the game because he's proved that he can hack it, albeit in a very limited fashion. The same can't be said about said prospect... yet.

As for the Chelios/Phaneuf comparison, who is the "better" player at this very moment? I don't know about the rest of you, but if I was going into the last five minutes in the third in a 1-1 tie in game 7 of the finals, I know who I'd rather have on the ice.

Now you're alll going to argue that Phaneuf is physically stronger, younger, etc. and therefore better... but there's still that matter of who most people would ice in that game 7 situation... and that's because "experience" is still a part of being "better".

My two cents...

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

Cannot compare. Bouwmeester is a top nhl d-man. Barker is imo a way of from that and Phanuef despite all the hype has yet to play and nhl game. And Johnson hasnt even been drafted and god knows when he will be. We dont know how any of them will turn out.

 

[ryz]

Cannot compare. Bouwmeester is a top nhl d-man. Barker is imo a way of from that and Phanuef despite all the hype has yet to play and nhl game. And Johnson hasnt even been drafted and god knows when he will be. We dont know how any of them will turn out.

I wouldn't call Jbo a TOP nhl d-man quite yet, but he is still very young and learning. I don't think we can get an accurate read on this anyway for about 5-6 years.