Jonathan Toews Versus Eric Staal

On an individual level, who has been better in the NHL?


  • Total voters
    109

Felidae

Registered User
Sep 30, 2016
9,262
10,772
This should clearly be Toews

Eric Staal has a 6th and 7th point finish. With no top 10 selke finishes, and a 4th place hart finish. Where he received no first or second place votes.

Selke: 16, 31, 39, 40, 43, 54, 66

Hart: 17, 23

In comparison,

Toews

Selke: 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 16, 17

Hart: 4, 4, 6, 9, 10.


Eric Staal has nothing over him besides perhaps aging better, and in the same age was producing in the 58-68 point range without the elite defense, so even that's arguable.
 

Tweed

Registered User
Jun 25, 2006
4,025
1,203
This should clearly be Toews

Eric Staal has a 6th and 7th point finish. With no top 10 selke finishes, and a 4th place hart finish. Where he received no first or second place votes.

Selke: 16, 31, 39, 40, 43, 54, 66

Hart: 17, 23

In comparison,

Toews

Selke: 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 16, 17

Hart: 4, 4, 6, 9, 10.


Eric Staal has nothing over him besides perhaps aging better, and in the same age was producing in the 58-68 point range without the elite defense, so even that's arguable.


Staal fell off a cliff for a few years there, and we all thought he hit the age-wall.
 
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ookhaab

Registered User
Jun 8, 2016
839
1,117
Similar offensive production through out their careers, but toews has been better defensively.

Staal has played with worse teammates though and he is older. Making his offence quite a bit better than Toews'

Expecting the not so big gap in scoring right now to become wider as toews gets older and Staal looks reborn after joining the wild.
 

2Pair

Registered User
Oct 8, 2017
12,633
5,103
Similar offensive production through out their careers, but toews has been better defensively.

Staal has played with worse teammates though and he is older. Making his offence quite a bit better than Toews'

Expecting the not so big gap in scoring right now to become wider as toews gets older and Staal looks reborn after joining the wild.
There's nothing similar about their offensive production. Staal has as many 100 point seasons as Toews has 70 point seasons. Staal also has more 40 goal seasons as Toews has 30 goal seasons. If you're actually judging individual performance, they're not even close.
 

ookhaab

Registered User
Jun 8, 2016
839
1,117
There's nothing similar about their offensive production. Staal has as many 100 point seasons as Toews has 70 point seasons. Staal also has more 40 goal seasons as Toews has 30 goal seasons. If you're actually judging individual performance, they're not even close.

. Eric Staal | Jonathan Toews
G/Game 0.36 0.37
A/Game 0.48 0.48
P/Game 0.84 0.85

Sure, Staal's peak was higher offensively, but he then fell of the face of the earth and now has climbed back with the wild.

Meanwhile Toews' production has stayed around 60 points for a long time.

Career wise their production has been the same.
 

DFF

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
22,275
6,525
This should clearly be Toews

Eric Staal has a 6th and 7th point finish. With no top 10 selke finishes, and a 4th place hart finish. Where he received no first or second place votes.

Selke: 16, 31, 39, 40, 43, 54, 66

Hart: 17, 23

In comparison,

Toews

Selke: 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 16, 17

Hart: 4, 4, 6, 9, 10.


Eric Staal has nothing over him besides perhaps aging better, and in the same age was producing in the 58-68 point range without the elite defense, so even that's arguable.

Totally wrong. Eric Staal is a better offensive player during their prime. He has the numbers to prove it.
 

2Pair

Registered User
Oct 8, 2017
12,633
5,103
. Eric Staal | Jonathan Toews
G/Game 0.36 0.37
A/Game 0.48 0.48
P/Game 0.84 0.85

Sure, Staal's peak was higher offensively, but he then fell of the face of the earth and now has climbed back with the wild.

Meanwhile Toews' production has stayed around 60 points for a long time.

Career wise their production has been the same.
Staal has also played 300 more games than Toews. You think Toews still has those numbers 300 games from now?
 

GreatGonzo

Surrounded by Snowflakes
May 26, 2011
8,860
2,902
South Of the Tank
This should clearly be Toews

Eric Staal has a 6th and 7th point finish. With no top 10 selke finishes, and a 4th place hart finish. Where he received no first or second place votes.

Selke: 16, 31, 39, 40, 43, 54, 66

Hart: 17, 23

In comparison,

Toews

Selke: 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 16, 17

Hart: 4, 4, 6, 9, 10.


Eric Staal has nothing over him besides perhaps aging better, and in the same age was producing in the 58-68 point range without the elite defense, so even that's arguable.
Toews finished 4th in the Hart race once and his one Selke, Bergeron had more first place votes. And the years he finished 9th and 10th in the Hart race, he didn’t have any first place votes and only 3 second place between the two. If your going to criticize, do it for both players equally.

Also your logic makes no sense. Your agenda is clearly saying that Toews Selke voting is more prestigious than Staals offense. That’s an opinion, not fact.
 

AKL

Danila Yurov Fan Club President
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Dec 10, 2012
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Staal is better offensively, Toews is better defensively. Toews has the hardware, which he no doubt contributed to in a big way, but let’s not pretend it’s as easy to get Hart votes on a team like Carolina as it is to get them on Chicago. Toews had the blessing of playing on a team with Duncan Keith and Patrick Kane. Staal played with Justin Faulk and...?

Who’s had the better career? Toews, not close.
Who’s the better player? Staal.
 
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GlitchMarner

Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
Jul 21, 2017
9,712
6,432
Brampton, ON
Best five seasons in terms of offensive output (excluding 2013):


Eric Staal:


100 points (82 games)
82 points (82 games)
76 points (82 games)
76 points (81 games)
75 points (82 games)


Johnathan Toews:


76 points (80 games)
69 points (82 games)
68 points (76 games)
68 points (76 games)
66 points (81 games)


Staal has advantages of 24 points (in two more games), 13 points, eight points (in six more games), eight points (in five more games) and nine points (in one more game).

Toews had 57 points in 59 games in 2011-2012, which projects to 79 points in 82 games and Staal had 70 points in 70 games in 2010, which projects to 82 points in 82 games.



2013:


Toews: 48 points in 47 games

Staal: 53 points in 48 games


Toews has the superior Selke voting record, as outlined.



Best five playoffs in terms of offensive production:


Eric Staal:



28 points (25 games)
15 points (18 games)
2 points (5 games)
1 point (5 games)
0 points (5 games)


Johnathan Toews:


29 points (22 games)
21 points (23 games)
17 points (19 games)
14 points (23 games)
13 points (17 games)
 
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Felidae

Registered User
Sep 30, 2016
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Totally wrong. Eric Staal is a better offensive player during their prime. He has the numbers to prove it.
Toews finished 4th in the Hart race once and his one Selke, Bergeron had more first place votes. And the years he finished 9th and 10th in the Hart race, he didn’t have any first place votes and only 3 second place between the two. If your going to criticize, do it for both players equally.

Also your logic makes no sense. Your agenda is clearly saying that Toews Selke voting is more prestigious than Staals offense. That’s an opinion, not fact.


Yeah, somehow I forgot to include the fact that Eric Staal is clearly better offensively.

Atm Toews has a higher PPG, but Staal has played 300 more games. So here are how their stats compare at the same age Toews is now. By doing this we remove Eric Staal's comeback seasons this year and last year, but I think it's compensated by the exclusion of his worst offensive season in 2015-16 where he had 36 points in 82 games, as well as playing in a higher scoring era in the mid 2000s.

Staal

769 games played, 289 goals, 399 assists and 688 points. An average of 73 points, 31 goals in 82 games

Jonathan Toews

791 games played, 292 goals, 382 assists and 674 points. An average of 69 points in 82 games.


I don't think the offensive gap outweighs the defensive gap. Staal has outscored Toews in most seasons, usually by a 5-10 point lead, but the only occasions in which he did so by more than 15 points were last year and Toews rookie season.
 
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GreatGonzo

Surrounded by Snowflakes
May 26, 2011
8,860
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South Of the Tank
Yeah, somehow I forgot to include the fact that Eric Staal is clearly better offensively.

Atm Toews has a higher PPG, but Staal has played 300 more games. So here are how their stats compare at the same age Toews is now. By doing this we remove Eric Staal's comeback seasons this year and last year, but I think it's compensated by the exclusion of his worst offensive season in 2015-16 where he had 36 points in 82 games, as well as playing in a higher scoring era in the mid 2000s.

Staal

769 games played, 289 goals, 399 assists and 688 points. An average of 73 points, 31 goals in 82 games

Jonathan Toews

791 games played, 292 goals, 382 assists and 674 points. An average of 69 points in 82 games.


I don't think the offensive gap outweighs the defensive gap. Staal has outscored Toews in most seasons, usually by a 5-10 point lead, but the only occasions in which he did so by more than 15 points were last year and Toews rookie season.
It is interesting considering that Staals drop in production was so severe. Sure Toews has dropped, but not as significant. But I feel in their primes, And before 2014, Staal was better offensively. But Toews was able to maintain some consistency for sure. But this past year should be taken into account. I mean we can’t ignore 42 goals and 76 points, I mean he matched Toews career totals while being a significantly better goal scorer, I think the bigger question is, will he maintain this level of play or something close to it.

This all comes down to offense vs defense in general. Toews has clearly had the better career, but player to player, all depends on your preference. Is there production close in a general aspect? Yes, but before 2014, at any given year...you could count of Staal to be at, at least 70 points and close to a PPG.
 

VoluntaryDom

Formerly DominicBoltsFan / Ⓐ / ✞
Oct 31, 2016
23,285
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Tampa FL
This one ends up being super close. But based on Staal's comeback and Toews not showing signs of comingback to being a high 60s selke contender I give it to Staal.
 

Felidae

Registered User
Sep 30, 2016
9,262
10,772
It is interesting considering that Staals drop in production was so severe. Sure Toews has dropped, but not as significant. But I feel in their primes, And before 2014, Staal was better offensively. But Toews was able to maintain some consistency for sure. But this past year should be taken into account. I mean we can’t ignore 42 goals and 76 points, I mean he matched Toews career totals while being a significantly better goal scorer, I think the bigger question is, will he maintain this level of play or something close to it.

This all comes down to offense vs defense in general. Toews has clearly had the better career, but player to player, all depends on your preference. Is there production close in a general aspect? Yes, but before 2014, at any given year...you could count of Staal to be at, at least 70 points and close to a PPG.

Staal's year of matching Toews highest point total was during a higher scoring year. He wasn't even top 20 in points. But I also forgot to mention Staal is clearly the better goal scorer. With finishes of 4th, 5th and 8th in comparison to Toews 5th place goal scoring finish in the shortened season, even if he was on pace last season when he was injured, he has never maintained that gpg pace of 40 in 82, or his point per game. Interestingly though, those 2 years aren't even his highest shooting percentage. So maybe he just missed out on his peak, since his best 3 years production wise happened consecutively. Oh well.
 
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ESH

Registered User
Jun 19, 2011
5,294
3,394
This one ends up being super close. But based on Staal's comeback and Toews not showing signs of comingback to being a high 60s selke contender I give it to Staal.

Wait so you’re not willing to give Toews a chance to comeback even though he played at a 66-point pace just the season before last (which is 3 points off his career average btw), even though Staal just proved that you can bounce back from some down seasons after having his 3rd-highest scoring season in the league ever? Nobody expected Staal to do what he just did, so why can’t Toews?
 

VoluntaryDom

Formerly DominicBoltsFan / Ⓐ / ✞
Oct 31, 2016
23,285
5,532
Tampa FL
Wait so you’re not willing to give Toews a chance to comeback even though he played at a 66-point pace just the season before last (which is 3 points off his career average btw), even though Staal just proved that you can bounce back from some down seasons after having his 3rd-highest scoring season in the league ever? Nobody expected Staal to do what he just did, so why can’t Toews?
im not saying he cant, just that I take staal until he does
 

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