News Article: John Wawrow: Tanks for Nothing - Some Teams Can't Win for Losing

[26CornerBlitz]

Tanks for nothing: Some NHL teams can't win for losing | CBC Sports

Jack Eichel has difficulty accepting the sorry state of the Buffalo Sabres, who haven't had a sniff at the playoffs in the three years since his celebrated arrival.

"When I got drafted, if you would've said we'd be in this position, I probably would've told you to give your head a shake," Eichel told The Associated Press.

Instead, it's the 21-year-old shaking his head in disbelief over a franchise that's finished no better than 14th in the Eastern Conference since 2012-13 and in jeopardy of finishing last in the overall standings for the third time in five years.

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[pigpen65]

Does anybody remember Murray saying that if somebody told me he could have gotten Kane and Lehner for what he had paid for them that he would have thought that person was tripping on mushrooms? Fast forward a couple years, it's the easiest thing in the world to believe that the Sabres are in the position that they are currently. The core of this team was built by an absolute moron. Eichel having a hard time believing it is fine. He's a naive kid. How the hell TM snowed as many people as he did to not only get the job in the first place but then continue at his job for as long as he did even though he never showed anything other than complete incompetence is beyond me.

 

[enthusiast]

"sometimes a thing happens, sometimes not"

 

[1972]

Tanking is fine, the probably should have just been more subtle about it instead of broadcasting it across the NHL like they did. The organization was basically talking about Eichel/McDavid before the prior season even ended.

 

[sincerity0]

I won’t give Warwow the click. He’s the old guy that screams at the sun.

 

[enthusiast]

There's an interesting investigation that could be conducted into the sports psychology aspect of tanking but this is like miles away from touching that

 

[Fezzy126]

I'm angry at myself for clicking, can't believe that guy gets paid to produce garbage pieces with no substance

 

[Dingo44]

Tanking gets you the core pieces a winning team needs but you have to put the right players and system and coach and organization around them. We have the core pieces, other than probably a 1A defenseman and maybe a true 1A goalie.

You also have to have some luck, like getting a Weber in the second round or a Karlsson with a mid-first.

Murray made some moves we wish we had back and some of the guys Botts got this year didn't work out, but the players Botts brought in were on cheaper one year deals other than the flyer on Beaulieu. We have some kids in the pipeline, we'll get a great pick this year, and the core is still very young. We're not that far away and even our worst contracts aren't that bad compared to some teams.

 

[Chainshot]

Hard to say the Wings weren't a benefactor of high draft picks with Yzerman and Primeau (and the pieces gained later from trading Primeau) were part of those '90's teams. That franchise struggled for a long, long time - 4 playoff appearances over 20 years. They had a #1 overall in their pre-Cup era too, who happened to not be good. Also didn't hurt that they managed to tap the Iron Curtain talent made available in the early '90's like almost no other team save the Devils (who also used that talent to help them win Cups). How about the first 10 years of the Blue Jackets existence, just flat out being bad? Or TWO times the Pens did what they had to do to wind up with elite talent? How about the early '90's Oilers, who spent a great deal of time wasting top 10 draft picks in a manner that makes their current struggles look holographic?

But hey, lets make it simple right? Overall, not well done.

 

[Fezzy126]

I'm angry at myself for clicking, can't believe that guy gets paid to produce garbage pieces with no substance

 

[Butt Ox]

Not even tempted to click

 

[jBuds]

Does anybody remember Murray saying that if somebody told me he could have gotten Kane and Lehner for what he had paid for them that he would have thought that person was tripping on mushrooms? Fast forward a couple years, it's the easiest thing in the world to believe that the Sabres are in the position that they are currently. The core of this team was built by an absolute moron. Eichel having a hard time believing it is fine. He's a naive kid. How the hell TM snowed as many people as he did to not only get the job in the first place but then continue at his job for as long as he did even though he never showed anything other than complete incompetence is beyond me.

Dad???

 

[Moskau]

Does anybody remember Murray saying that if somebody told me he could have gotten Kane and Lehner for what he had paid for them that he would have thought that person was tripping on mushrooms?

Nope. Because that's not even close to what was said.

 

[valet]

Does anybody remember Murray saying that if somebody told me he could have gotten Kane and Lehner for what he had paid for them that he would have thought that person was tripping on mushrooms? Fast forward a couple years, it's the easiest thing in the world to believe that the Sabres are in the position that they are currently. The core of this team was built by an absolute moron. Eichel having a hard time believing it is fine. He's a naive kid. How the hell TM snowed as many people as he did to not only get the job in the first place but then continue at his job for as long as he did even though he never showed anything other than complete incompetence is beyond me.

Lol

I could not agree more.

 

[GellMann]

jw is posting over on the other Sabres board the past day or two if anyone cares to chat with him.

I asked him to find out what the deal with the Sharks pick is if they sign Kane and then miss the playoffs and he said something like "good point" and that he'd find out.

 

[Husko]

Did tanking work for the leafs?

 

[Chainshot]

Did tanking work for the leafs?

Being bad for 10 years sort of worked for the Leafs. Getting good management and coaching after getting some quality draft picks has also worked for the Leafs. JFJ and then Burke were bad, Nonis tread water, but the new braintrust has done a good job of leveraging what they have with smart acquisitions via the draft, UDFA, UFA and in their staffing.

 

[Yatzhee]

Oh that immortal word........

"SUFFERING"

Remember it well you younger fans. So you can say, "I was there, that fateful day."

:/

 

[Buffaloed]

jw is posting over on the other Sabres board the past day or two if anyone cares to chat with him.

I asked him to find out what the deal with the Sharks pick is if they sign Kane and then miss the playoffs and he said something like "good point" and that he'd find out.

You should have said "I have better things to do than wait until you find out".

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

The Lehnar trade was in all ways garbage. Even if he turned out to magically be Hasek it was terrible trade given the market at the time. Given what Kane is doing in SJS it's not easy to say he's a bad player.

 

[debaser66]

The Lehnar trade was in all ways garbage. Even if he turned out to magically be Hasek it was terrible trade given the market at the time. Given what Kane is doing in SJS it's not easy to say he's a bad player.

The first round pick wasted on Lehner hurty, especially given how deep the 2015 draft was.
Kane had no future here.
He might work with a coach who knows what he is doing.
Since the Kane trade I am starting slowly to lose confidence in Botterill.
First the big mouth announcement
And the return which wasnt even a quarter from what he asked for.
Then this week the announcement that Housley isnt going anywhere.
Maybe they are stuck together like glue...

 

[joshjull]

Being bad for 10 years sort of worked for the Leafs. Getting good management and coaching after getting some quality draft picks has also worked for the Leafs. JFJ and then Burke were bad, Nonis tread water, but the new braintrust has done a good job of leveraging what they have with smart acquisitions via the draft, UDFA, UFA and in their staffing.

I've always marveled at how much luck and timing play a role in teams emerging from the abyss. The Leafs had the right management team in place to take advantage of their good luck winning the lottery which dove tailed nicely with having a player like Mathews as their prize for winning it.

Chicago is an amazing case on this front. They had an extremely cheap ownership that left them a shell of the once proud franchise they were back in the day. Then in June 2007 they win the draft lottery after finishing 5th last and later that month draft Kane. In Sept 2007 "Dollar" Bill Wirtz died. Had he still been alive there is no way in hell the Hawks spend the money they did to build those Cup teams. An entire franchise's fortunes reversed by two events separated by about 4 months

EDIT: as it relates to the Sabres, not having the right management team to navigate our way back after drafting drafting Sam/Jack is a big reason we are where we are right now.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I've always marveled at how much luck and timing play a role in teams emerging from the abyss. The Leafs had the right management team in place to take advantage of their good luck winning the lottery which dove tailed nicely with having a player like Mathews as their prize for winning it.

Chicago is an amazing case on this front. They had an extremely cheap ownership that left them a shell of the once proud franchise they were back in the day. Then in June 2007 they win the draft lottery after finishing 5th last and later that month draft Kane. In Sept 2007 "Dollar" Bill Wirtz died. Had he still been alive there is no way in hell the Hawks spend the money they did to build those Cup teams. An entire franchise's fortunes reversed by two events separated by about 4 months

EDIT: as it relates to the Sabres, not having the right management team to navigate our way back after drafting drafting Sam/Jack is a big reason we are where we are right now.

Winning the draft lottery, along with Chicago dumping Q and Botterill promptly making the coaching switch, would do it for Buffalo.

Personally, I don't think it'll take such dramatics. Adding Hughes/Dobson and flushing the expensive older players out of the team will do it. I don't think LA had that type of impactful luck in such a short span.

 

[EichHart]

I've always marveled at how much luck and timing play a role in teams emerging from the abyss. The Leafs had the right management team in place to take advantage of their good luck winning the lottery which dove tailed nicely with having a player like Mathews as their prize for winning it.

Chicago is an amazing case on this front. They had an extremely cheap ownership that left them a shell of the once proud franchise they were back in the day. Then in June 2007 they win the draft lottery after finishing 5th last and later that month draft Kane. In Sept 2007 "Dollar" Bill Wirtz died. Had he still been alive there is no way in hell the Hawks spend the money they did to build those Cup teams. An entire franchise's fortunes reversed by two events separated by about 4 months

EDIT: as it relates to the Sabres, not having the right management team to navigate our way back after drafting drafting Sam/Jack is a big reason we are where we are right now.

The initial "Tank" phase of the Leafs did not work because of the caliber of those players. Kadri, JVR, Reilly were not enough to carry the team to the playoffs. They are great players in their own right, but not good enough to carry the team. The added elite talent of Matthews, Marner, and Nylander is what put JVR, Kadri, and Reilly in positions to take advantage of defensive matchups and exploit the depth. Getting a top 3 NHL coach and a top 15 NHL goalie via trade helped push that rebuild forward exponentially. The problem with the Sabres is not the caliber of players we got at the top, but the depth we could of had if we kept our picks/prospects and let them develop and properly come into the league when ready.