John Tonelli's HHOF chances

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Big Phil, Mar 7, 2011.

  1. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

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    No, he isn't in yet. Maybe never will.

    In your opinion, how far is he off an what is he missing to get in there in his career?
     
  2. kmad

    kmad riot survivor

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    He wasn't an elite player at any point in his career. A very good roleplayer/secondary scorer.
     
  3. seventieslord

    seventieslord Student Of The Game

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    With Gillies and Duff in there - it wouldn't surprise me.
     
  4. MXD

    MXD Original #4

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    Hopefully, none.
     
  5. Buck Aki Berg

    Buck Aki Berg Done with this place

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    I'd say Hall of Very Good. He made a really nice pass in the spring of 1980, but beyond that...
     
  6. Psycho Papa Joe

    Psycho Papa Joe Porkchop Hoser

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    Personally, I thought he was a better hockey player than Gillies on those Isles teams. His main claim to fames are being very clutch, a more than solid producer and Canada Cup MVP. Loved seeing him work along the boards.
     
  7. His cartilage-less nose was 2nd to none.
     
  8. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    He'd be the Dick Duff the modern era.

    At least Gillies was part of a line so famous they got a name (even if he wasn't necessarily on the line for the whole dynasty).
     
  9. Vladsky

    Vladsky Registered User

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    IIRC, he was the 1984 Canada Cup MVP.

    This adds to his strong Isles dynasty resume... He might sneak into HHOF one year.
     
  10. OrangeZebra

    OrangeZebra Unregistered User

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    His wild eyes alone could get him into the hall :sarcasm:
     
  11. BubbaBoot

    BubbaBoot Registered User

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    I find it difficult to omit him. His numbers are very good. His playoff numbers are very good. He's also one of those "intangible" guys. He's a key member of a dynastic team.

    But, there's a ton of guys out there that have similar or better numbers/traits than him. Guys like Adam Oates, Doug Gilmour, Dave Taylor, Rick Middleton, Ken Hodge, Brian Propp, Steve Larmer, Pat Verbeek, Rick Tocchet, Dave Andreychuk, Rick MacLeish, Bernie Nicholls, Joe Nieuwendyk, Gary Roberts, Theo Fleury, Pierre Turgeon, Eric Lindros, Bobby Smith, Alexander Mogilny.....hell, as much as I despise the SOB I'd even include Dale Hunter in this group.

    It's a tough omission....
     
  12. Hardyvan123

    Hardyvan123 [email protected]

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    His intangibles of 35 of 40 playoff goals at even strength make him better than most on this list.

    Sorry but he had quite a bit better career than Dick Duff.

    Tonelli truly is one of those guys who was much more than his stats, and his stats were decent.

    Although, IMO, he is better than Gillies and Duff the Hall should be for the great and he really should be in the Hall of the very good.
     
  13. monster_bertuzzi

    monster_bertuzzi registered user

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    Better than Dick Duff without a doubt.
     
  14. JackSlater

    JackSlater Registered User

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    Very good player, very good career, pretty obviously not a HOF player. As far as what his career is missing... I guess you could call it "eliteness". Tonelli was never a top 10 player in the world, and arguably not even all that close at any point. That would basically be a prerequisite for the HOF if I was voting, and if Tonelli was ever all that close to that level he would get in based on the dynasty team he played for.
     
  15. seventieslord

    seventieslord Student Of The Game

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    Wow, suddenly Duff is a worthless scrub and Tonelli would be a better inductee. They are practically the same player!

    Here is a mini-study I did in another thread over a year ago, about some other clutch/dynasty players. What is key for me, is that Duff was five times a top-6 scorer on a cup winner. Tonelli only was once.

     
  16. andreydali19

    andreydali19 They're relentless

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    Reboot the Veterans Committee. Might help.
     
  17. BubbaBoot

    BubbaBoot Registered User

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    While that is an impressive ratio, I don't think that should be the leading (only?) factor for inclusion....epecially when there is more than a few guys who scored more goals in less games....even more even strength goals in less games....and most of these guys won't be getting in the HoF either.

    PLYOF
    GMS - G - EV

    172 - 40 - 35 - John Tonelli

    163 - 42 - 23 - Adam Oates
    182 - 60 - 38 - Doug Gilmour
    92 - 26 - 14 - Dave Taylor
    114 - 45 - 33 - Rick Middleton
    97 - 34 - 21 - Ken Hodge
    160 - 64 - 34 - Brian Propp
    140 - 56 - 32 - Steve Larmer
    117 - 26 - 11 - Pat Verbeek
    145 - 52 - 35 - Rick Tocchet
    162 - 43 - 25 - Dave Andreychuk
    114 - 54 - 13 - Rick MacLeish
    118 - 42 - 25 - Bernie Nicholls
    158 - 66 - 43 - Joe Nieuwendyk
    130 - 32 - 23 - Gary Roberts
    77 - 34 - 21 - Theo Fleury
    109 - 35 - 25 - Pierre Turgeon
    53 - 24 - 17 - Eric Lindros
    184 - 64 - 40 - Bobby Smith
    174 - 54 - 39 - Steve Thomas
    124 - 39 - 30 - Alexander Mogilny
    143 - 51 - 26 - Brian Bellows
    234 - 80 - 60 - Claude Lemiuex
    81 - 40 - 19 - Tim Kerr
    102 - 32 - 27 - Dave Christian
    134 - 53 - 37 - Stephane Richer
    135 - 35 - 24 - Neal Broten
    139 - 32 - 23 - Tomas Sandstrom
    59 - 23 - 19 - Kevin Dineen
    113 - 43 - 32 - Ken Linesman
    107 - 40 - 32 - Peter McNab
    79 - 24 - 19 - Tony McKegney
    140 - 41 - 24 - Vincent Damphousse
    104 - 35 - 21 - John MacLean
    55 - 17 - 13 - Jimmy Carson
    81 - 31 - 17 - Ray Sheppard
    156 - 39 - 25 - Geoff Courtnall
    129 - 39 - 29 - Russ Courtnall
    104 - 28 - 21 - Mike Ridley
    64 - 35 - 27 - Pavel Bure
    66 - 20 - 14 - Anton Stastny
    80 - 30 - 17 - Peter Bondra
    103 - 46 - 26 - Kevin Stevens
    102 - 35 - 18 - Mats Naslund
    125 - 38 - 25 - Adam Graves
    95 - 37 - 27 - Wendel Clark
    124 - 34 - 16 - Trevor Linden
    85 - 24 - 14 - Brent Ashton
    65 - 21 - 15 - Owen Nolan
    64 - 25 - 17 - Danny Gare
    89 - 31 - 22 - Ron Duguay
    141 - 44 - 29 - Scott Young
    118 - 27 - 20 - Murray Craven
    41 - 16 - 14 - Stan Smyl
    126 - 29 - 20 - Cliff Ronning
    186 - 42 - 27 - .....hell, as much as I despise the SOB I'd even include Dale Hunter in this group.
     
  18. Doshell Propivo

    Doshell Propivo Registered User

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    I'm not really one to get into HOF debates but having watched JT in his prime, I can say that there aren't many players I'd take on my playoff team ahead of him.
     
  19. MessierThanThou

    MessierThanThou Registered User

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    Tonelli was a two-time second team All-Star, so he was also one of the best at his position for at least two seasons (1982, 1985). The Islanders are the most dominant dynasty next to the Oilers, in one of the most competitive NHL eras ever. Tonelli was the only member of that dynasty besides Bossy, Trottier, Potvin and Billy Smith to be on a post-season All-Star Team. He was also a big part of Calgary's 1986 trip to the finals. He was a far more consistent contributor in the regular and post-seasons to the Islanders dynastic sucess than both Gilles (whose best performance came after the Islanders 4 cups) and Butch Goring (who won a questionable Conn Smythe and was very inconsistent overall). And...he won the 1984 Canada Cup MVP. He should be in.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2011
  20. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    How was the early 80s one of the most competitive eras ever? There were Andre dominant teams, and most teams couldn't really compete. Sure it was more competitive than the 70s, but thatbosnt saying much.
     
  21. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    I do say that I don't understand why gillies got in over tonelli. He got in for being the third member of the famous line, but apparently the line wasn't together through the whole dynasty?
     
  22. TheMoreYouKnow

    TheMoreYouKnow Registered User

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    If Tonelli why not Dale Hunter?
     
  23. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    The case for tonelli involves his contribution to a dynasty. I don't understand the comparison. What did hunter contribute to playoff success?
     
  24. Epsilon

    Epsilon #basta

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    If Hunter were elected to the Hall of Fame he would easily be the worst post-war player inducted, by an enormous margin.

    Dear god no, that would be just awful.
     
  25. TheMoreYouKnow

    TheMoreYouKnow Registered User

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    Well, see one man's contributor to a dynasty is another man's coattail rider. If Dale Hunter is on those Isles who knows what he does?

    I think it's pretty weak sauce to give a guy credit for a dynasty when he was maybe the 5th best player on those teams. I mean what about Bob Bourne? 31 goals and 74 points in the playoffs in the Cup years for the Isles. Isn't that more than Tonelli?
     

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