Value of: John Tavares vs. Auston Matthews

[Cotton]

Yeah, but you can have breakfast pizza, hawaiian pizza, taco pizza, buffalo wing pizza, etc. Hell, you can fold a pizza in half, and it plays like a stromboli/turnover.

Chicken wings win games. Pizza wins championships.

Folded pizza's more of a Calzone. You can ethnic the pizza up too; butter chicken pizza, jerk chicken, Gyro, Poutine ect.

 

[TGWL]

Folded pizza's more of a Calzone. You can ethnic the pizza up too; butter chicken pizza, jerk chicken, Gyro, Poutine ect.

So, what you're saying is Pizza has a lot more depth?

 

[Aceboogie]

Matthews is a better player right now to even start. When other factors taken into consideration, Tavares value doesnt even come close to Matthews

Quick example: Matthews took a lotto team to the playoffs the next season, Tavares took 4 years

 

[syc]

Matthews is not a generational player yet. Not even close actually, he'll have to continue to get better every single season from here on out for that to happen.

How is a rookie who scores 40 goals and ties for second in the entire league in goals not even close to generational? It should be obvious but younger players always get better as the get older so the odds are Matthews will continue to get better every year. Crazy I know but true.

 

[Starat327]

Matthews is a better player right now to even start. When other factors taken into consideration, Tavares value doesnt even come close to Matthews

Quick example: Matthews took a lotto team to the playoffs the next season, Tavares took 4 years

Matthews had a lot of help. Tavares didn't.

 

[Starat327]

Folded pizza's more of a Calzone. You can ethnic the pizza up too; butter chicken pizza, jerk chicken, Gyro, Poutine ect.

We call folded pizza a pizza turnover here more than a calzone, but yes, thats true. Stromboli is just another variation, further expounding upon the depth that Pizza has. that's why it wins championships.

 

[Liferleafer]

So, what you're saying is Pizza has a lot more depth?

I mean obviously pizza has more value, but you guys are totally forgetting about Chicken wings' intangables...

 

[Habs Halifax]

Tavares. Mathews had a great rookie season on a team stacked in the top 9. Mathews is going to be a great young center but Tavares is the more complete player and he does more with less around him.

 

[LaVar]

Matthews is of a much greater value than Tavares. Matthews is a generational talent, who will get a McDavid contract. Tavares is a very good player, but not more than that.

Matthews is a very good player who will get a McDavid contract.

 

[TGWL]

I mean obviously pizza has more value, but you guys are totally forgetting about Chicken wings' intangables...

That's true.

And also, I hear boneless chicken wings are less injury prone...

I still think Pizza is built to be a dynasty.

 

[Starat327]

That's true.

And also, I hear boneless chicken wings are less injury prone...

I still think Pizza is built to be a dynasty.

Pizza was also a first overall pick, so it has extra (perceived) value.

 

[hotpaws]

Matthews had a lot of help. Tavares didn't.

yup , Mathews had Zach"10 thumbs"Hyman glued to his side for 82 games and a half season of Brown on the other side , with help like that who knows the heights Johnny golden boy would have reached

also Mathews never scored 72 goals in the OHL as a 16 year old which cemented Tavares as the greatest player to ever play the game

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Discuss

Discuss what?

Does not matter. JT will sign with the Leafs and take a huge home team discount to help out.

 

[Trapper]

Why must we do this?
Let Matthews play more than 1 season before we build monuments in his name.
Let Marner and Nylander play more than 1 season before we pay them 12 million/year.

Can we for once just let things progress naturally?

 

[wintersej]

Generational: Howe, Orr, Gretzky, Lemiuex, Jagr, Lindros, Lidstrom, Crosby, McDavid

Not Lidstrom or Lindros.

 

[TGWL]

Not Lidstrom or Lindros.

Not Lindros or Lidstrom - a player who won 7 Norris trophies?

If McDavid is going to be on the list of Generational talent this early, you absolutely include guys like Lidstrom and Lindros.

 

[Leafer34]

Last 2 40 goal scoring teenage rookies are Mario Lemieux and Auston Matthews

 

[Starat327]

yup , Mathews had Zach"10 thumbs"Hyman glued to his side for 82 games and a half season of Brown on the other side , with help like that who knows the heights Johnny golden boy would have reached

also Mathews never scored 72 goals in the OHL as a 16 year old which cemented Tavares as the greatest player to ever play the game

Where did I Say Tavares was a golden boy, or that Matthews wasn't good? I simply stated that the teams that Tavares has played on have been notably devoid of talent - thus the reason anyone thinks its even remotely feasible that he leaves. Playing with better linemates helps, but when teams have to game plan around 3 lines as opposed to 1, it also provides more opportunity for individuals to score.

Sorry you got all riled up because I didnt christen Matthews as my savior.

Edit: Conversely - McDavid just put up how many points with Pat "ICarryMcDavid" Maroon glued to his side, so I guess we can settle that whole debate on who is generational and who isn't, eh? (Before anyone jumps further down the throat for not praising Jesus Matthews, this is sarcasm.)

 

[Nervousbreakdown]

You can ethnic the pizza up too; butter chicken pizza, jerk chicken, Gyro, Poutine ect.

Yeah if you want to ruin pizza.

 

[Nervousbreakdown]

Where did I Say Tavares was a golden boy, or that Matthews wasn't good? I simply stated that the teams that Tavares has played on have been notably devoid of talent - thus the reason anyone thinks its even remotely feasible that he leaves. Playing with better linemates helps, but when teams have to game plan around 3 lines as opposed to 1, it also provides more opportunity for individuals to score.

Sorry you got all riled up because I didnt christen Matthews as my savior.

Edit: Conversely - McDavid just put up how many points with Pat "ICarryMcDavid" Maroon glued to his side, so I guess we can settle that whole debate on who is generational and who isn't, eh? (Before anyone jumps further down the throat for not praising Jesus Matthews, this is sarcasm.)

I think generational refers to the guys who define each generation in the NHL. When we think of the 1980s we are thinking of gretzky and lemieux. The 90s its lindros jagr and forsberg, 2000s is crosby vs ovechkin, and I think the next 10 years will be Mcdavid vs Matthews with mcdavid putting up the better numbers and being recognized as the better player but just like ovechkin, or lemieux in the 80s no one is going to use them being second best as a realistic reason to say they aren't generation defining talents in the league.

 

[Starat327]

I think generational refers to the guys who define each generation in the NHL. When we think of the 1980s we are thinking of gretzky and lemieux. The 90s its lindros jagr and forsberg, 2000s is crosby vs ovechkin, and I think the next 10 years will be Mcdavid vs Matthews with mcdavid putting up the better numbers and being recognized as the better player but just like ovechkin, or lemieux in the 80s no one is going to use them being second best as a realistic reason to say they aren't generation defining talents in the league.

I mostly agree. I think it may be a bit early on the Matthews is generational train though. That doesn't mean what he did wasnt impressive. 40G is no easy feat for anyone, nevermind a rookie. I dont want it to seem like I'm bashing Matthews, because i'm not. But humor me for a second:

Mcdavid played 45 games in his rookies season, and had 48 points, so a 1.06 PPG that paced him for 87 points. Now, much like anyone else, i Dont know if that pace was sustainable (though this year seems to indicate it was), because anything could have happened; a nagging injury that doesn't sideline him but hampers his ability to shoot/skate/pass, for instance. So lets assume he slows down 20% on his pace in the last 37 games he didnt play (thats a rather sharp decline, but lets go with it). He still would have had 80 points at seasons end.

For me, right now, Matthews is absolutely Franchise level. He is an amazing talent.
But I'm hard pressed to lump him in with McDavid right now when theres a pretty clear difference. I'd like to see a little more than one season before dubbing someone as generational when his peers have recently had better seasons by comparison, that's all.

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

Chicken wings plays a much simpler game. It can go without sauce altogether (in a pinch) or take on breading, sauces of all kinds, parmesan cheese, etc and you still know more or less what you're going to get. Pizza, on the other hand, can go wrong in so many ways (e.g. too much sugar in the tomato sauce, slide into a pile if the box gets turned too far, having pineapple on it).

I read this and ill i can say is it is clear that wings have the higher floor, but with that comes a lower ceiling, more of a guarentee. However it is obvious that pizza has potential generational talent that only comes around 6 times per draft.

 

[weems]

Which John Tavares are we talking about?

The 2015 MVP caliber player or the one from the past 2 seasons?

 

[LeafGrief]

I read this and ill i can say is it is clear that wings have the higher floor, but with that comes a lower ceiling, more of a guarentee. However it is obvious that pizza has potential generational talent that only comes around 6 times per draft.

I really gotta disagree here. You know what they say about pizza, even when it's bad, it's still pretty good. Bad chicken wings are AHL fodder. They have similar ceilings as game watching centrepieces, but chicken wings are way more boom or bust.

 

[Starat327]

I really gotta disagree here. You know what they say about pizza, even when it's bad, it's still pretty good. Bad chicken wings are AHL fodder. They have similar ceilings as game watching centrepieces, but chicken wings are way more boom or bust.

I've gotta second this motion. I've had wings that would make me forget about Pizza altogether, but also have had wings that I couldn't even finish. I've never had to throw away pizza for being 'bad'.