Value of: John Tavares vs. Auston Matthews

[Nervousbreakdown]

Matthews is not generational, if he is, then so is Eichel (who I think will be better) and Laine. I don't know what question is being asked here though

I think Matthews is already a better all around player than eichel. From what I have heard over the last year and a bit if matthews was a few days older the 2015 draft would have went mcdavid matthews eichel.

 

[M Ace]

Youre forgetting Alex Ovechkin.

...and Peter Forsberg

 

[mikeyp24]

This is a really bad post. I mean, where to start?

- Matthews was not as good as McDavid his rookie year. Better season, sure, but only because he was healthy.
- Matthews was at no point thought to be as good as McDavid. No one with any credibility has ever said this, and there's no evidence of that changing now.
- Matthews was not advertised as generational. Tons of ****/generic players go 1st OA, they aren't all created equal. And goals in his first game is strictly anecdotal. Brett Favre through a pick-6 his first NFL pass, I guess he sucked?
- There is no discrimination against Americans, that is a laughable idea.
- If Matthews tops 100 points next season and wins the Hart and Art Ross, sure go ahead and call him generational. But he won't, so don't.

You say he wasn't as good his rookie year but had a better season... that's literally what that means... great comment

I never said Mathews was said to be as good as McDavid I said he was said to be generational which he was. Eichel was also advertised as generational so I don't know why that makes you so.angry multiple people have been deemed possible generational talent recently.

Bret Favre threw more pick 6s then probably anyone in history I am pretty sure he has thag record... So if you think Mathews is going to retire with a 4 goals a game that's a bold strategy buddy but let's see if it works out.

And finally there is a huge difference between the way players are covered if they are Russian or American opposed to Canadian. To deny that is just willingly ignoring the onviousness.

 

[Kcb12345]

Discuss

Can't really compare the two considering Matthews has had one season and only one season to prove himself. He's good, but no matter what you say his career potential is still a question mark. Whether he will reach Tavares level or not we don't know yet.

 

[Halla]

Tavares at 19: 24g/54 pts
Tavares at 20: 29g/67 pts
Tavares at 26: 28g/66pts

vs

Matthews at 19: 40g/69pts

Matthews is already better. If Tavares was putting up 75-80+ pts every single year, you could make the case he is better.

 

[Halla]

Can't really compare the two considering Matthews has had one season and only one season to prove himself. He's good, but no matter what you say his career potential is still a question mark. Whether he will reach Tavares level or not we don't know yet.

well he already hit 40g, Tavares has never done that. Tavares has only topped 69 pts three times (once being 70pts).
Matthews is well on his way if he isnt already better right now (and statistically he was better than Tavares last year and that isn't even debatable)

 

[Halla]

Matthews had a really great rookie season, but it's very premature to throw generational out there. Franchise level, likely, but he needs to do a lot more to get beyond that. Tavares is a franchise player, all things being equal I'd take him on my team all day long. Age and contract status may make Matthews more attractive but until he can post above .9 PPG over multiple season, Tavares > Matthews.

Tavares just put up a 0.86ppg, just thought you should know

 

[Hockey down under]

Generational prospects its Lemieux, Lindros, Crosby, McDavid for the modern era.

To be a generational player, I'd say you'd need a couple Harts and a very strong track record. I'd label Hasek a generational guy over Lidstrom and Jagr. Lidstrom is a great player but in no period of time was he deemed the best player in the league by either his peers or the writers following the game, he never even got nominated for the Hart. Great player who was consistently great, but doesn't pass the iconic label required to be generational in my mind. He gets grouped with the great defenders behind Orr, which consists of Potvin, Harvey, Robinson, Bourque etc.

Clear generational players are Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, and Howe. Past that its debatable, but guys such as Beliveau, Ovi, Eddie Shore, Richard, Clarke, Mikita, Bobby Hull, etc enter the discussion before some of the guys you listed.

Lidstrom has been nominated for the hart. He's just never won it. Then again only 1 defensemen has won the hart since Bobby Orr and that was Pronger. Defensemen don't get recognition from the league but that shouldn't take away from whether they can be considered generational.

He has 7 Norris trophys and a Conn Smythe. I put him ahead of a few people you mentioned as debatable.

 

[jetsforever]

Matthews is definitely more valuable, due to age, contract, and coming off a 40 goal rookie season.
He might end up having a similar career to Tavares, but could also be better.

 

[oooooooooohCanada]

Better passer
Better possession player (if you're the type of person who cares about such things)
Better hands
Stronger on the puck
Proven to have the ability to carry his team in the playoffs (not that Matthews can't, but JT has proven it)
...

He's just flat-out a better player right now. The only people who would disagree with that are Leafs' homers and those few posters who never watch Tavares but assume he's on the decline due to his point totals.

Highly debatable. Those three things are basically Matthews entire game.

 

[Laineux]

You say he wasn't as good his rookie year but had a better season... that's literally what that means... great comment

I never said Mathews was said to be as good as McDavid I said he was said to be generational which he was. Eichel was also advertised as generational so I don't know why that makes you so.angry multiple people have been deemed possible generational talent recently.

Bret Favre threw more pick 6s then probably anyone in history I am pretty sure he has thag record... So if you think Mathews is going to retire with a 4 goals a game that's a bold strategy buddy but let's see if it works out.

And finally there is a huge difference between the way players are covered if they are Russian or American opposed to Canadian. To deny that is just willingly ignoring the onviousness.

Connor McDavid was a generational prospect, produced at a generational rate in his rookie season (clearly better than Matthews) and had a generational sophomore season.

Matthews didn't produce at a generational rate in his rookie year and wasn't a generational prospect.

Of course this is arguing semantics, but as McDavid is clearly in a tier above Matthews at all stages of their career so far it's hard to call Matthews a generational talent.

Worry not, Matthews will have every chance to prove that he is a generational talent. I just don't see Matthews realistically matching what McDavid just did as a sophomore. Only two players in history have.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

McDavid can do play so well at top speed, which IMO separates him from the rest.

Individually Tavares has accomplished a lot, but he might have peaked. I see some team, overpaying him in salary and term next year..
Who would want on your team for the next 8 years....Matthews, Eichel and their will many more....will be more valuable than Tavares.

 

[Brock Radunske]

People seem to be getting too hung up on semantics in this thread. Allow me to clarify.

- Matthews is not a Generational talent. He's a Franchise talent and is projecting to be one of, if not the best.

- Matthews is not, as of right now a better player than JT. This could change as early as next season though and likely will barring any major injuries.

- Matthews is more valuable than JT because of his skills, early production, potential and contract.

 

[Morgs]

Although Tavares is better as of this moment, Matthews value is much much higher. He's arguably the 2nd most valuable player in hockey.

 

[shortfuze]

Your list lost credibility right there, not to mention the dumb generational argument in itself. If a guy is generational based on HF assumption he should have no equal in his generation and that simply isn't the case for most of those guys. Heck I can argue that Peter Forsberg who was part of the Lindros trade was better than him lol.

Lindros is generational. He was the most domininant player in the 90's.

 

[kmo429]

Tavares is the better player right now.

Matthews has more value because of his perceived ceiling, age, controllability/contract, etc.

Pretty much a no brainer.

 

[Tripod]

Tavares at 19: 24g/54 pts
Tavares at 20: 29g/67 pts
Tavares at 26: 28g/66pts

vs

Matthews at 19: 40g/69pts

Matthews is already better. If Tavares was putting up 75-80+ pts every single year, you could make the case he is better.

MacKinnon at 18: 63 points

Players don't always build off their rookie seasons.

 

[TGWL]

What kind of sauce comes with those wings . That can be a difference maker in its own rights . I give the edge to a good BBQ chicken pizza

I prefer a good Buffalo chicken pizza. Makes me feel like I'm getting the best of both worlds. A nice 1-2 punch down the middle...

 

[Fugazy]

Matthews definitely has more value that Tavares at this point.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Is this a rhetorical question?

 

[Starat327]

Chicken wings plays a much simpler game. It can go without sauce altogether (in a pinch) or take on breading, sauces of all kinds, parmesan cheese, etc and you still know more or less what you're going to get. Pizza, on the other hand, can go wrong in so many ways (e.g. too much sugar in the tomato sauce, slide into a pile if the box gets turned too far, having pineapple on it).

Yeah, but you can have breakfast pizza, hawaiian pizza, taco pizza, buffalo wing pizza, etc. Hell, you can fold a pizza in half, and it plays like a stromboli/turnover.

Chicken wings win games. Pizza wins championships.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

MacKinnon at 18: 63 points

Players don't always build off their rookie seasons.

Mack being 18 vs 19 doesn't really matter as it was Tavares, Matthews and Mack's draft year.

 

[Cotton]

And finally there is a huge difference between the way players are covered if they are Russian or American opposed to Canadian. To deny that is just willingly ignoring the onviousness.

How are American and Russian players treated differently by the media? Is this Canadian media alone doing this? Are you even exposed enough to all media to make such claims? Are american players covered differently than Russians or is it a US/RUS package deal kinda thing?

 

[shortfuze]

Tavares at 19: 24g/54 pts
Tavares at 20: 29g/67 pts
Tavares at 26: 28g/66pts

vs

Matthews at 19: 40g/69pts

Matthews is already better. If Tavares was putting up 75-80+ pts every single year, you could make the case he is better.

Did you purposely skip the 4 years of being point per game 2 years ago. Just like Tavares, Matthews will have down years.

Not to mention that he has been a .91 PPG game his whole career. Which adds up to 75 points per season.

 

[Cotton]

MacKinnon at 18: 63 points

Players don't always build off their rookie seasons.

Matthews and MacKinnon are very different situations.