Speculation: John Tavares' Pending Unrestricted Free Agency

[Clark4Ever]

there's no way that a garbage coach like Weight leaving is going to be the last straw for him. There's also no way Weight would have been fired if Tavares staying was contingent on that

With Lou in charge, I don't think he gives a rat's ass who JT or anyone else wants to coach the team. He's going to hire his own guy, as he should.

 

[SprDaVE]

Do you always like to argue for the sake of arguing.


Decisions like this always are made above the GM level. It is no slight in Dubas but he simply lacks the authority to make a decisions like this.

But the decision will be Dubas' first... that's my point. If Dubas doesn't want Tavares for whatever reason, Shanahan will not make him sign him because that's his job to make these decisions. Again, you assume he doesn't have the authority to make the decisions of a GM. He will have the same title Lamoriello did and he will make his own decisions accordingly.

There are so many things that comes into making a big signing or even a big trade like this. Shanahan won't be the one getting credit or the blame, trust me.

 

[diceman934]

But the decision will be Dubas' first... that's my point. If Dubas doesn't want Tavares for whatever reason, Shanahan will not make him sign him because that's his job.

There are so many things that comes into making a big signing or even a big trade like this. Shanahan won't be the one getting credit or the blame, trust me.

Wrong ... this decision is above his pay grade period.

It is funny that you think that Dubas would have the final decision at all.

 

[diceman934]

Wrong ... this decision is above his pay grade period.

It is funny that you think that Dubas would have the final decision at all.

 

[SprDaVE]

Wrong ... this decision is above his pay grade period.

It is funny that if you think that Dubas would have the final decision at all.

Completely disagree. Hockey decisions are made by the GM and a GM that doesn't have full autonomy isn't really a GM. Nonis and Lamoriello had full autonomy, Dubas will get it and there's literally nothing to suggest the opposite is going to happen.

You can find it funny all you want but you're believing your theory instead of the facts since Shanahan has taken over. I'd rather place the blame on hockey decisions being made by the GM than rather finding tin foil hat things like Shanahan will make Dubas do this or that.

 

[ToneDog]

Meh - last year's playoffs was a good learning experience. They hadn't been there in a while, they battled hard, but came up short.
This year - even though it went 7 games, they were out-classed. The Marchand line destroyed them. They were a defensive train-wreck and went down with a whimper in the 3rd period of game 7. They gambled with UFA's (Bozak and JVR) who never step up in big games and lost. They also unnecessarily gave up a 2nd for Pleks to address a hole they've had for a few years. They kinda half-assed it - keep all UFAs but do very little at TDL to address obvious needs

You don't think the team learned that it takes more than talent alone to win 16 playoff games ? Don't kid yourself, this year's playoff experience was valuable.

 

[ShaneFalco]

You don't think the team learned that it takes more than talent alone to win 16 playoff games ? Don't kid yourself, this year's playoff experience was valuable.

I guess we'll see. Just not sure how long people can keep saying "valuable playoff experience" if/when they go out in the first round

 

[diceman934]

Completely disagree. Hockey decisions are made by the GM and a GM that doesn't have full autonomy isn't really a GM. Nonis and Lamoriello had full autonomy, Dubas will get it and there's literally nothing to suggest the opposite is going to happen.

You can find it funny all you want but you're believing your theory instead of the facts since Shanahan has taken over.

I'd rather place the blame on hockey decisions being made by the GM than rather finding tin foil hat things like Shanahan will make Dubas do this or that.

Fact Shanny was heavily involved in us attempting to sign Stammer.

I believe what I have seen and heard so many times when GM speak after they have been let go about having to go to upper management seeking permission to make a deal or to sign a big contract. This is over his pay grade and is not his decision at all.

Will he be asked his opinion of course but he will not have the final decision as I explained that goes above his head and even Shanny head to ownership level and if they want him signed they will do everything in their power to get it done.

Dubas has the same authority that Lou did for sure.

 

[egd27]

Completely disagree. Hockey decisions are made by the GM and a GM that doesn't have full autonomy isn't really a GM. Nonis and Lamoriello had full autonomy, Dubas will get it and there's literally nothing to suggest the opposite is going to happen.

You can find it funny all you want but you're believing your theory instead of the facts since Shanahan has taken over. I'd rather place the blame on hockey decisions being made by the GM than rather finding tin foil hat things like Shanahan will make Dubas do this or that.

There is often a fine line between a "hockey decision" and a "business decision" and sometimes they are blended. Do you believe that a GM has full autonomy over all of them?

I don't.

 

[IBeL34f]

I guess we'll see. Just not sure how long people can keep saying "valuable playoff experience" if/when they go out in the first round

When you're talking about a core of 20-year-olds in their 2nd season together, playing as the underdogs in both series so far, I think people can keep talking about "valuable Playoff experience" until it obviously isn't valuable Playoff experience anymore. If you're casting blame on a team that you didn't expect to win in the first place, you're probably looking to be upset more than you are looking to be logical. Personally, I consider the last true learning experiences to be losing to a team you're expected to beat, and winning it all - Until we've gone through those things, there's still plenty this group has to learn. It's waaaaaay too early to demand a finished product.

 

[SprDaVE]

There is often a fine line between a "hockey decision" and a "business decision" and sometimes they are blended. Do you believe that a GM has full autonomy over all of them?

I don't.

Maybe for some teams... but The Toronto Maple Leafs don't need to sign Tavares as a business decision and Shanahan hasn't shown any hand that leads me to believe that this will get done no matter what.

Nonis got full autonomy. Lamoriello got it as well. Dubas will get his chance to do his own thing. If Tavares signs it will be because of Dubas and with approval of Shanahan. Same thing should be said if Dubas moves on from trading/signing for Tavares.

 

[ToneDog]

I guess we'll see. Just not sure how long people can keep saying "valuable playoff experience" if/when they go out in the first round

LOL. Beats not making the playoffs for 10+ seasons

 

[thewave]

Completely disagree. Hockey decisions are made by the GM and a GM that doesn't have full autonomy isn't really a GM. Nonis and Lamoriello had full autonomy, Dubas will get it and there's literally nothing to suggest the opposite is going to happen.

You can find it funny all you want but you're believing your theory instead of the facts since Shanahan has taken over. I'd rather place the blame on hockey decisions being made by the GM than rather finding tin foil hat things like Shanahan will make Dubas do this or that.

Full autonomy only comes from the owners box.

 

[SprDaVE]

Fact Shanny was heavily involved in us attempting to sign Stammer.

I believe what I have seen and heard so many times when GM speak after they have been let go about having to go to upper management seeking permission to make a deal or to sign a big contract. This is over his pay grade and is not his decision at all.

Will he be asked his opinion of course but he will not have the final decision as I explained that goes above his head and even Shanny head to ownership level and if they want him signed they will do everything in their power to get it done.

Dubas has the same authority that Lou did for sure.

He was heavily involved because Lamoriello wanted it. You think Shanahan gets involved if the Leafs didn't want to sign Stamkos? No he doesn't. It's really simple here. Shanahan didn't go over Lamoriello's head. There's a big difference here.

Again, seeking permission or talking to your president/boss in what you will be doing as the GM is completely different than the President telling his GM what to do, like telling him he has to sign X player or to go over his head to make signings, trades or whatever else.

 

[pspot]

didn't realize he does so well at faceoffs, thats huge for me
winning facesoffs and having position for a team that wants to out score is huge

 

[egd27]

Maybe for some teams... but The Toronto Maple Leafs don't need to sign Tavares as a business decision and Shanahan hasn't shown any hand that leads me to believe that this will get done no matter what.

Nonis got full autonomy. Lamoriello got it as well. Dubas will get his chance to do his own thing. If Tavares signs it will be because of Dubas and with approval of Shanahan. Same thing should be said if Dubas moves on from trading/signing for Tavares.

1. If you are saying this in terms of selling tickets, selling merch, JT as a marketing vehicle, etc., then I agree. However IMO any investment that's going to be in the $75M range is, at least in part, a business decision.

2. I thinks that's the point......Shanahan's approval (and likely the board's) is going to be necessary to sign him.

 

[SprDaVE]

1. If you are saying this in terms of selling tickets, selling merch, JT as a marketing vehicle, etc., then I agree. However IMO any investment that's going to be in the $75M range is, at least in part, a business decision.

2. I thinks that's the point......Shanahan's approval (and likely the board's) is going to be necessary to sign him.

No. His point was that Shanahan will essentially take over the entire process and Shanahan will get credit for signing Tavares or not. And I quote "that decision will be all Shanny so Dubas should get no props if we sign him or no blame if we do not. "

I disagree with that point, which is completely different than talking to your boss about making a 70M+ player investment and getting his approval. Surely you see the difference.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Woah, is Greg Brady reliable? Wonder if Lou would do us a solid here?

Why would Lou "do us a solid"? Wouldn't he be motivated by doing things for his new organization - the Islanders?

 

[egd27]

No. His point was that Shanahan will essentially take over the entire process and Shanahan will get credit for signing Tavares or not. And I quote "that decision will be all Shanny so Dubas should get no props if we sign him or no blame if we do not. "

I disagree with that point, which is completely different than talking to your boss about making a 70M+ player investment and getting his approval. Surely you see the difference.

Ok fair enough on the bolded.

I was taking issue with your statement that a GM without full autonomy isn't a GM at all. Perhaps we have a different interpretation of full autonomy.

 

[thewave]

Man, if JT comes for about 10m or so we need to move one of the big 3 likely for some futures. Maybe Marleau will go back to SJ for a 2nd and 3rd or so.

 

[diceman934]

1. If you are saying this in terms of selling tickets, selling merch, JT as a marketing vehicle, etc., then I agree. However IMO any investment that's going to be in the $75M range is, at least in part, a business decision.

2. I thinks that's the point......Shanahan's approval (and likely the board's) is going to be necessary to sign him.

As well if the board wants the Leafs to pursue him they will. Direction goes downward. Permission is sought above.

Remember Shanny sought and got permission to tear down the team after an assessment period. As that was a business decision more that just a hockey decision. Point being he needed permission.

 

[Muston Atthews]

I guess we'll see. Just not sure how long people can keep saying "valuable playoff experience" if/when they go out in the first round

The honeymoon is over. They need to make it out of the first round this upcoming year or it will be a failure. They’ve gains their playoff experience now it’s time to surpass what they’ve already done

 

[egd27]

As well if the board wants the Leafs to pursue him they will. Direction goes downward. Permission is sought above.

Remember Shanny sought and got permission to tear down the team after an assessment period. As that was a business decision more that just a hockey decision. Point being he needed permission.

I think we're in agreement?

 

[Sypher04]

I wholeheartedly agree with SprDaVE here and I wanna say two things.

1.) Since Leiweke installed Shanahan to run the hockey business there is precisely zero evidence of owner meddling in hockey decisions.

2.) Its entirely possible that Dubas can make the entire Tavares transaction without needing any kind of approval from anyone. He's likely approved to spend to a figure, in this case the cap, in whatever way he deems prudent. Subject to review of course, but I'm not convinced he needs permission to make any signing.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I'm sure Lou (now Dubas) has meetings with the management team and coach all the time. Potential FA targets I'm sure are discussed as part of the plan. So really, there's no need for Shanny to be involved or to "approve" things.