John Tavares or Erik Karlsson?

[Ronnie Residue]

If we got Karlsson id be more interested in pairings like:

Vlasic-Karlsson
Ryan-Burns
Dillon-Braun

I don't think we'd trade for Karlsson just to put him on the third line. I get rolling 3 lines but still I'd be happier with this.
That being said I'd rather sign Tavares if possible as we wouldn't need to give up youth for him.

 

[pappaf2]

Yeah, when it’s Meier or Hertl I’m backing off; those guys mean too much to our current team and I love them too much. I would hate to see LaBanc go as well.

Tavares might be the better choice tbh, given the fewer number of assets required. But it’s hard for me not to say Karlsson, just because of what he did against Pittsburgh last year.

That's why I don't like the karlsson idea, giving up Meier or hertl is no good, but I'd trade labanc in an instant. Banc has skills but isn't consistent nor is he a 200' player like the sharks pine for.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I think that offer is scoffed at unless DW makes it LaBanc+Meier.

I don't think so simply because Bobby Ryan would be involved. A large majority of the teams that are talking to the Sens about Karlsson are going to balk when it comes to taking Ryan and his four remaining years at 7.25 million. If I'm DW, I'm definitely looking at that because he can't get Karlsson otherwise. Practically every other team can outbid the Sharks for Karlsson alone. The only way to bring him in is by taking Ryan with him and it would afford DW the opportunity to move Paul Martin, Justin Braun, and Melker Karlsson with someone like Kevin Labanc, a prospect and a 1st round pick or two to bring them in. Ottawa would much rather buy out Martin's last season than pay Bobby Ryan moving forward. Justin Braun and Melker Karlsson would be useful players to them. Ottawa would be sending out 42.5 million in dollars over the lives of the contracts and bringing in about 17 million in contracts. That's a huge monetary savings for Ottawa and that is very valuable to them at this point.

It depends what you consider blue chip but I think we could get a top-10 pick at worst.

There's no chance in hell that Pavelski brings in a top 10 pick. He doesn't have that value with his contract.

 

[WSS11]

I don't think so simply because Bobby Ryan would be involved. A large majority of the teams that are talking to the Sens about Karlsson are going to balk when it comes to taking Ryan and his four remaining years at 7.25 million. If I'm DW, I'm definitely looking at that because he can't get Karlsson otherwise. Practically every other team can outbid the Sharks for Karlsson alone. The only way to bring him in is by taking Ryan with him and it would afford DW the opportunity to move Paul Martin, Justin Braun, and Melker Karlsson with someone like Kevin Labanc, a prospect and a 1st round pick or two to bring them in. Ottawa would much rather buy out Martin's last season than pay Bobby Ryan moving forward. Justin Braun and Melker Karlsson would be useful players to them. Ottawa would be sending out 42.5 million in dollars over the lives of the contracts and bringing in about 17 million in contracts. That's a huge monetary savings for Ottawa and that is very valuable to them at this point.



There's no chance in hell that Pavelski brings in a top 10 pick. He doesn't have that value with his contract.

Agree with you about Bobby Ryan. But does taking on Ryan’s contract limit our ability to resign Kane, our RFAs, Couture and the giant extension EK would require?

 

[Pistol Pete]

Agree with you about Bobby Ryan. But does taking on Ryan’s contract limit our ability to resign Kane, our RFAs, Couture and the giant extension EK would require?

As I mentioned in my previous post, I think it’s safe to assume that Bobby Ryan would be bought out in that instance. It would be $1,833,333 per year over the next 8 seasons.

 

[gaucholoco3]

I think that if Ott wants to get rid of EK and Ryan then both Hertl and Meier are untouchable.

Also it might sound crazy but I would be willing to trade a 1st to a cap floor team to take Ryan's contract. That would allow us to potentially get both EK and Tavares. Money would get really tight the following year with re-signing Couture and Pavs but next year we would have an insane team.

 

[WSS11]

As I mentioned in my previous post, I think it’s safe to assume that Bobby Ryan would be bought out in that instance. It would be $1,833,333 per year over the next 8 seasons.

Almost 2MM in cap space for the next 8 years is a pretty big deal unless the cap sky rockets over the next few years.

 

[Pistol Pete]

Tavares is likely getting closer to 12M/YR and I would expect Karlsson to get the same.

I expect the same as well. In this scenario they would be going to a fully loaded team with the potential to be a mini dynasty. If they both signed with the Sharks, they’d be joining Burns, Vlasic, Jones, Couture, Hertl, and Pavs. If they took a little less than their market values, that would leave more room for Kane and Thornton to resign as well. If Tavares and Karlsson ultimately both want to win a cup and/or potentially multiple cups, it would make sense to take a little less to ice a deeper team.

Ultimately it’s a highly unlikely scenario, and it depends on how much they value the monetary stability and if the Sharks would even offer deals like that.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Agree with you about Bobby Ryan. But does taking on Ryan’s contract limit our ability to resign Kane, our RFAs, Couture and the giant extension EK would require?

To an extent it does because you're adding about 2.5 million in cap dollars but it's manageable. It would leave the team with roughly 15 million in a 78 mil cap world to sign Hertl, Tierney, DeMelo, and re-sign whatever UFA's. Hertl's probably getting around 5-5.5 million. Tierney's probably bridging at 3 mil. DeMelo is probably getting 1-1.5 million. That would be 9 million at the lower end with a need for two forwards before UFA signings. That should be enough to re-sign Kane if one wanted. As for the Couture and potential Karlsson extension (don't forget Donskoi either), I think letting Pavelski walk and a likely cap increase will account for what's needed. My expectation is that someone trading for and re-signing Karlsson likely gets him for 9.5-10 million or another 3-3.5 million from what he's getting now. Couture I'm expecting in the 7-7.5 mil range. Donny would probably be around 4-5 million. So you'd need to have about 6-8 million and Pavs would create 6 of it by walking. The other bit could be cap increase or moving Boedker before going into his final year or moving Brenden Dillon.

They have the flexibility to make that happen. I don't think buying out Bobby Ryan would be an option for the team unless the CBA negotiations yield a compliance buyout which I very much doubt would happen.

 

[Pistol Pete]

I think that if Ott wants to get rid of EK and Ryan then both Hertl and Meier are untouchable.

Also it might sound crazy but I would be willing to trade a 1st to a cap floor team to take Ryan's contract. That would allow us to potentially get both EK and Tavares. Money would get really tight the following year with re-signing Couture and Pavs but next year we would have an insane team.

Almost 2MM in cap space for the next 8 years is a pretty big deal unless the cap sky rockets over the next few years.

For sure. It’s nothing to scoff at. But from the past )years, the cap has continued to steadily rise. 2012-2013 season had a $60mil cap. This upcoming season will be between $78-82mil. Let’s just assume it’s in the middle at $80mil. So that’s an increase of $20mil in 6 years. If that trend continues, which it should for teams to remain competitive, $1.88mil per season for a Bobby Ryan buyout isn’t that big of a deal imo.

All of that being said, if there’s another lockout in a couple of years, who knows what will happen. Maybe there will be more amnisty buyout options at that time.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I think that if Ott wants to get rid of EK and Ryan then both Hertl and Meier are untouchable.

Also it might sound crazy but I would be willing to trade a 1st to a cap floor team to take Ryan's contract. That would allow us to potentially get both EK and Tavares. Money would get really tight the following year with re-signing Couture and Pavs but next year we would have an insane team.

It's going to take a lot more than a 1st round pick for a floor team to take Bobby Ryan off of anyone's hands. That generally only works for players whose cap hits will be on the books but their salaries are not needing to be paid like Datsyuk when he's in the KHL and effectively retired here or someone who is injured. The other scenario is if a player has a high cap hit but his salary is below that like Boedker will be. Ryan will not be in that situation. For the Sharks, if they bring in Ryan, they're going to have to ride him out for a little while until someone is willing to throw maybe a smaller cap hit but longer term at them for Ryan or maybe a compliance buyout presents itself. But eating Ryan's contract is the price the Sharks would have to pay in order to get Karlsson. It's the only possible way.

 

[SRTShark]

R u kidding JT for sure, add in Kane and bring jumbo back for 1m

I'd be way cool with that!

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

I don't think so simply because Bobby Ryan would be involved. A large majority of the teams that are talking to the Sens about Karlsson are going to balk when it comes to taking Ryan and his four remaining years at 7.25 million.

Curious why Ryan fell so hard the last couple years. Did something happen in his personal life or has he become an alcoholic? He was good for 50 points or better for the previous 7 or 8 seasons then hit 30 and fell off a truck. Seems odd. If he could get his game right the Sharks could just keep him instead of signing Kane if they wanted. Your salary swap analysis makes it a no brainer for Ottawa to jump on the Sharks deal (hopefully). We can hope.

 

[WSS11]

Curious why Ryan fell so hard the last couple years. Did something happen in his personal life or has he become an alcoholic? He was good for 50 points or better for the previous 7 or 8 seasons then hit 30 and fell off a truck. Seems odd. If he could get his game right the Sharks could just keep him instead of signing Kane if they wanted. Your salary swap analysis makes it a no brainer for Ottawa to jump on the Sharks deal (hopefully). We can hope.

He has slowed down. Not close to what he was in Anaheim but he’s also had some injuries. To his credit I think he was about a PPG player during Ottawa’s run in the playoffs last year

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Curious why Ryan fell so hard the last couple years. Did something happen in his personal life or has he become an alcoholic? He was good for 50 points or better for the previous 7 or 8 seasons then hit 30 and fell off a truck. Seems odd. If he could get his game right the Sharks could just keep him instead of signing Kane if they wanted. Your salary swap analysis makes it a no brainer for Ottawa to jump on the Sharks deal (hopefully). We can hope.

Bobby Ryan has had numerous broken fingers from what I can tell that has been keeping him out and I'm sure it's made him slow down as well.

 

[WSS11]

Just curious knowing what we paid for EK (potentially 1 year) and what DW was reportedly offering JT (13mil per year) has your opinion changed?

Also just a friendly reminder that we have Erik f***ing Karlsson in teal.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Just curious knowing what we paid for EK (potentially 1 year) and what DW was reportedly offering JT (13mil per year) has your opinion changed?

Also just a friendly reminder that we have Erik f***ing Karlsson in teal.

I honestly didn’t mean to bump this.

My opinion was always EK as long as the price was somewhat reasonable and it was somewhat reasonable that re-sign. This price was far below what I still would have considered a reasonable price and DW’s confidence in his ability to sign EK sounded like plenty enough for me to consider it somewhat reasonable that he would re-sign. So, I’m taking Karlsson ten times out of ten.

 

[Mattb124]

From the rosterbation perspective, I wanted a #C in Seguin much more than another right-handed Norris-Caliber D-man.

Having said that, it is so rare that a player of EK's ability changes hands, from a GM's perspective you need to chase it. And to have landed him (even un-extended) without losing any key roster players....amazing.

 

[Bizz]

having EK65 is nice and all, but franchise #1C's don't grow on trees and Thornton only has so much time left.

 

[Barrie22]

Karlsson 7 days a week and every second of every day. This isn't even a hard anser.

This still is my opinion.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

having EK65 is nice and all, but franchise #1C's don't grow on trees and Thornton only has so much time left.

If you are building an organization from scratch, you pick Karlsson every freaking time over Tavares. Tavares is a really good #1C elite center. But Karlsson is the top-3 D in the league.

Tavares is more of a BPA (draft context) for us in our current situation because of Thornton's age and us having Burns on the roster already. From a quality perspective I think Karlsson is in a different league than Tavares.

 

[Barrie22]

If you are building an organization from scratch, you pick Karlsson every freaking time over Tavares. Tavares is a really good #1C elite center. But Karlsson is the top-3 D in the league.

Tavares is more of a BPA (draft context) for us in our current situation because of Thornton's age and us having Burns on the roster already. From a quality perspective I think Karlsson is in a different league than Tavares.

Tavares might be top 10 in centers. But karlsson is and can be top 5 players in the entire league.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Tavares might be top 10 in centers. But karlsson is and can be top 5 players in the entire league.

Exactly. I mean saying that we "need" Tavares more than Karlsson is one thing. But if it was about picking just the better player, there is no question you pick Karlsson every time.

 

[Internazionale]

This thread is pure gold, especially page 1. How quickly things change....eh.

 

[ChubbChubby]

It's more that Tavares would have cost us no assets and no one realistically could predict we could land EK without us giving up significant players.