Tribute John Tavares Discussion Thread

[SlpLessInMuskoka18]

The top 2 lines are pretty set for the next 3 or 4 years if Robertson can break in at LW.

Any combination of; Robertson-AM-Willy / Hyman-JT-Marner - Finding which combo of LW and RW for each line is the only thing. I'd like this the best.

 

[ShaneFalco]

2 years into being a Leaf and we're already trashing Tavares?

On the decline? He's 1 year removed from the best season of his career.

JFC some fans don't deserve good things

 

[BAM]

Matthews, Eichel, Barzal, Malkin, Crosby, Draisital, Mcdavid, Mackinnon, Petterson, Scheifele, Barkov, O'Reilly, Aho, Bergeron....14 centers off the top of my head would all be taken ahead of Tavares in a draft for next season. Factor in his sub par skating and his contract worries me moving forward as he ages. Tavares had a career high of 38 goals before coming to Toronto. Mix in Marner in his contract year, Tavares coming home to play and that 47 is inflated. This year he was on pace for 34. The Tavares contract can easily be argued to be a mistake for who he is as a player, the standard it set for payscale on that team(aka maximize every dollar) and spend 11 million on a 2c when your 4.5 million dollar 2c was more than capable....and the Dcore is still a failure.

Oh stfu, half the dudes you listed aren't even better than Tavares.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Matthews, Eichel, Barzal, Malkin, Crosby, Draisital, Mcdavid, Mackinnon, Petterson, Scheifele, Barkov, O'Reilly, Aho, Bergeron....14 centers off the top of my head would all be taken ahead of Tavares in a draft for next season. Factor in his sub par skating and his contract worries me moving forward as he ages. Tavares had a career high of 38 goals before coming to Toronto. Mix in Marner in his contract year, Tavares coming home to play and that 47 is inflated. This year he was on pace for 34. The Tavares contract can easily be argued to be a mistake for who he is as a player, the standard it set for payscale on that team(aka maximize every dollar) and spend 11 million on a 2c when your 4.5 million dollar 2c was more than capable....and the Dcore is still a failure.

Personally I wouldn't rank Barzal, Pettersson, Aho and Barkov ahead of Tavares.

Yes Barzal had a great rookie season with 85 points and won the Calder Trophy. However since than he had 62 points in 82 games in the 2019 season and this past season he had 60 points in 68 games played when the season was suspended on March 12th. So was his rookie season a fluke in terms of his stats, because since Barry Trotz became his coach his numbers have dropped.

Pettersson has not yet had at least 30 goals or 70 points in his 2 NHL seasons and a lot of his hype comes from Canucks fans who consider him to be a top 5 player.

Aho had a great season in 2019, however Tavares has done a lot more.

Barkov is a good player, although I think gets a lot of the hype he gets is due to the market he plays in.

 

[Skin Tape Session]

Personally I wouldn't rank Barzal, Pettersson, Aho and Barkov ahead of Tavares.

Yes Barzal had a great rookie season with 85 points and won the Calder Trophy. However since than he had 62 points in 82 games in the 2019 season and this past season he had 60 points in 68 games played when the season was suspended on March 12th. So was his rookie season a fluke in terms of his stats, because since Barry Trotz became his coach his numbers have dropped.

Pettersson has not yet had at least 30 goals or 70 points in his 2 NHL seasons and a lot of his hype comes from Canucks fans who consider him to be a top 5 player.

Aho had a great season in 2019, however Tavares has done a lot more.

Barkov is a good player, although I think gets a lot of the hype he gets is due to the market he plays in.

Patterson isint even a top ten center lmao...he's gonna be good but come on rigjt?

 

[Gabriel426]

Matthews, Eichel, Barzal, Malkin, Crosby, Draisital, Mcdavid, Mackinnon, Petterson, Scheifele, Barkov, O'Reilly, Aho, Bergeron....14 centers off the top of my head would all be taken ahead of Tavares in a draft for next season. Factor in his sub par skating and his contract worries me moving forward as he ages. Tavares had a career high of 38 goals before coming to Toronto. Mix in Marner in his contract year, Tavares coming home to play and that 47 is inflated. This year he was on pace for 34. The Tavares contract can easily be argued to be a mistake for who he is as a player, the standard it set for payscale on that team(aka maximize every dollar) and spend 11 million on a 2c when your 4.5 million dollar 2c was more than capable....and the Dcore is still a failure.

Matthews, Sid, Drai, McDavid, Mack, Malkin and Bergeron are better than JT.
Eichel, O'Reilly, Scheifele, and even Barkov are debatable.
Barzal, Petterson and Aho are not better than JT at this point of their career.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Matthews, Sid, Drai, McDavid, Mack, Malkin and Bergeron are better than JT.
Eichel, O'Reilly, Scheifele, and even Barkov are debatable.
Barzal, Petterson and Aho are not better than JT at this point of their career.

The more I think about it, I should have included Eichel on my list of him not being better than Tavares.

This past season was the first time in his career that Eichel scored at least 30+ goals and he's only been above 80+ points also one time.

Tavares has 5 seasons of 30+ goals and 4 seasons of 80+ points.

Let's not forget how Tavares had 47 goals and 88 points just last season for the Maple Leafs.

 

[Stephen]

There's going to be a lot of scrutiny on Tavares' quality of play if and when the playoff format kicks off this summer. Surely he'll have had time to heal from whatever was supposedly bothering him all year, and foot speed is going to be a question as well. Shift to shift, he just wasn't the same as in 2019. There were times when he looked like he had traded legs with Jason Spezza, and also couldn't handle the puck in traffic at all (probably from the hand injury sustained in the fall).

 

[Man Bear Pig]

I think some posters need to go back and recall that we had no legit centers in the top 6 after Sundin left, until Tavares and Matthews came on board. We were running Bozak as the #1 center for years. Tavares "struggled" this year and was still close to being a PPG player. And that's him not playing well. The man is elite, or close to it, and he's not even our best center.

 

[Martin Skoula]

There's going to be a lot of scrutiny on Tavares' quality of play if and when the playoff format kicks off this summer. Surely he'll have had time to heal from whatever was supposedly bothering him all year, and foot speed is going to be a question as well. Shift to shift, he just wasn't the same as in 2019. There were times when he looked like he had traded legs with Jason Spezza, and also couldn't handle the puck in traffic at all (probably from the hand injury sustained in the fall).

I don't think there's any sense in hoping for the footspeed to figure itself out, it's going to be more of a question of how much he'll be able to adapt his game closer to a Jagr/Thornton playmaker that buys himself time and space with his power instead of his speed. If Pavelski can be a 30-40 goal scorer through his mid-late 30s, I don't see why Tavares can't.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I think some posters need to go back and recall that we had no legit centers in the top 6 after Sundin left, until Tavares and Matthews came on board. We were running Bozak as the #1 center for years. Tavares "struggled" this year and was still close to being a PPG player. And that's him not playing well. The man is elite, or close to it, and he's not even our best center.

Those posters also need to remember just how great Tavares was in his first season with Toronto. None of us predicting a 47 goal and 88 points. I'm sure if we go back to see the thread when his signing was made official and knowing the pressure he would have coming home and the type of contract he just signed, we would have been happy seeing him score only 40 goals.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

I don't think there's any sense in hoping for the footspeed to figure itself out, it's going to be more of a question of how much he'll be able to adapt his game closer to a Jagr/Thornton playmaker that buys himself time and space with his power instead of his speed. If Pavelski can be a 30-40 goal scorer through his mid-late 30s, I don't see why Tavares can't.

You make a good point. Tavares has also never relied on foot speed, ever. That was always a criticism going back to when he was a teenager. He got better in long island but even then it was just average. I think his game translates pretty well tbh. He's arguably the best player in the league around the crease.

 

[LeafsNation75]

You make a good point. Tavares has also never relied on foot speed, ever. That was always a criticism going back to when he was a teenager. He got better in long island but even then it was just average. I think his game translates pretty well tbh. He's arguably the best player in the league around the crease.

This is a great example of a Tavares goal when he's around the crease.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Those posters also need to remember just how great Tavares was in his first season with Toronto. None of us predicting a 47 goal and 88 points. I'm sure if we go back to see the thread when his signing was made official and knowing the pressure he would have coming home and the type of contract he just signed, we would have been happy seeing him score only 40 goals.

I'd put a lot of money on people here who are crapping all over him loving him signing at the time. Like I said before, he was nearly a PPG player and not playing well. Neither was the team. Add in a coaching change to that. This wasnt a great season for the Leafs pre-covid.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I'd put a lot of money on people here who are crapping all over him loving him signing at the time. Like I said before, he was nearly a PPG player and not playing well. Neither was the team. Add in a coaching change to that. This wasnt a great season for the Leafs pre-covid.

Here was the thread from July 1, 2018 when the Leafs officially signed Tavares and I don't see any negative comments about signing him.

Confirmed with Link: - Tavares to Toronto (7 years, $11M AAV)

 

[kb]

I don't think there's any sense in hoping for the footspeed to figure itself out, it's going to be more of a question of how much he'll be able to adapt his game closer to a Jagr/Thornton playmaker that buys himself time and space with his power instead of his speed. If Pavelski can be a 30-40 goal scorer through his mid-late 30s, I don't see why Tavares can't.

Exactly. Tavares was never known for foot speed, so I believe it was just a question of him getting his hand healthy.

 

[Stephen]

I don't think there's any sense in hoping for the footspeed to figure itself out, it's going to be more of a question of how much he'll be able to adapt his game closer to a Jagr/Thornton playmaker that buys himself time and space with his power instead of his speed. If Pavelski can be a 30-40 goal scorer through his mid-late 30s, I don't see why Tavares can't.

Well, Jagr and Thornton have the advantage of massive 6’4” frames which Spezza is kind of utilizing as well to stay in the game. Tavares needs to keep working on his skating to maintain that edge and kind of keep looking for ways to evolve his game. Doesn’t help that the rest of the core are the fleet of foot variety which puts him out of sink with many line combos. Hopefully he’s just better with a clean bill of health.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Those posters also need to remember just how great Tavares was in his first season with Toronto. None of us predicting a 47 goal and 88 points. I'm sure if we go back to see the thread when his signing was made official and knowing the pressure he would have coming home and the type of contract he just signed, we would have been happy seeing him score only 40 goals.

I don't disagree with your overall point, but I totally expected a career year for Tavares in his first season. He had never played with anyone half as good as Marner before.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I don't disagree with your overall point, but I totally expected a career year for Tavares in his first season. He had never played with anyone half as good as Marner before.

A career season in 2018-19 for Tavares would have been scoring 40 goals, since his previous high was 38 goals. However did any Leafs fans honestly expect him to end up with 47 goals?

 

[LeafGrief]

I am constantly surprised at how a player either has to be the worst or the best ever. No middle ground, no nuance, no fluctuations. JT had a weak year by his standards. He looked slow and uncoordinated for large stretches of the year. Despite that obvious struggle, he also had stretches where he was a dominant force and still managed close to PPG and 34g pace while playing tough matchups all year. He also battled an injury and the birth of his first child.

We're obviously a better team with him and he's obviously got another gear than he had this year. We saw it a year ago, it really shouldn't be hard to imagine that a guy will bounce back at 29. Sheesh.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I am constantly surprised at how a player either has to be the worst or the best ever. No middle ground, no nuance, no fluctuations. JT had a weak year by his standards. He looked slow and uncoordinated for large stretches of the year. Despite that obvious struggle, he also had stretches where he was a dominant force and still managed close to PPG and 34g pace while playing tough matchups all year. He also battled an injury and the birth of his first child.

We're obviously a better team with him and he's obviously got another gear than he had this year. We saw it a year ago, it really shouldn't be hard to imagine that a guy will bounce back at 29. Sheesh.

Look at the Maple Leafs roster they had during the 2015-16 season when they finished in last place overall, plus it being prior to having John Tavares and Auston Matthews.

2015-16 Toronto Maple Leafs Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

Does anyone want to go back to a time like that?

Yes it's okay to talk about Tavares if he has a bad game. However to say he's lost it at just 29 years old and to say what a bad contract he has is crazy.

Finally speaking of his contract how many people forgot he turned down more money from San Jose for the same amount of years.

How the Toronto Maple Leafs signed John Tavares - Sportsnet.ca

Wilson wouldn’t discuss San Jose’s pitch, but word is he told Tavares, “You are the final piece for us.” It has also been rumoured (but never confirmed) that the Sharks were willing to pay $13.5 million per year for seven years. “That was a confident group,” one source says. “They felt they were the best option for John, and they showed it.”

John Tavares, Sharks face off with no regrets over how free agency unfolded - Sportsnet.ca

They were even willing to go as high as $91-million to sign No. 91, which is $2-million more per season on a seven-year deal than he ended up getting from the Toronto Maple Leafs.

[URL='https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/teams/toronto-maple-leafs/']
[/URL]

 

[LeafsNation75]

 

[PromisedLand]

The top 2 lines are pretty set for the next 3 or 4 years if Robertson can break in at LW.

Any combination of; Robertson-AM-Willy / Hyman-JT-Marner - Finding which combo of LW and RW for each line is the only thing. I'd like this the best.

Would rather go with three deadly lines (with running short bench when needed i.e. 2 lines more often)

Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Mikheyev-Tavares-Kapanen
Robertson-Nylander-Johnsson/Kerfoot/xxx
4th line

 

[meefer]

Would rather go with three deadly lines (with running short bench when needed i.e. 2 lines more often)

Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Mikheyev-Tavares-Kapanen
Robertson-Nylander-Johnsson/Kerfoot/xxx
4th line

An interesting idea. I'd be curious to see how Keefe manages for TOI. I'd tweak a little bit...
Hyman-Matthews-Marner (we know what we have here, and it's pretty good)
Robertson-Tavares-Mykheyev (Robertson being fed by Tavares, imo, is better than Nylander doing it...but 2nd vs 3rd line competition?...a toss up)
Johnsson/Engvall-Nylander-Kapanen (Nylander's dzone exits augmented by the threat of Kapanen, hmmm, both E and J {when healthy} can keep up)
Clifford-Kerfoot-Spezza (a wee bit of everything here)

FWIW, I expect JT to be a bull when this starts up again. If Matthews draws Dubois (and Jones-Werenski), Jenner (and Gavrikov-Savard) is going to have his hands full going toe to toe with Captain Serious. If Mykheyev can be close to what he was: hard on the puck, strong skating, defensively sound, he'll be JTs Hyman, allowing JT to do JT things with Robertson needing to find open ice or pressure the front of the net to keep the Jacket's D honest. I can see Columbus taking a few hooking/holding/tripping penalties trying to contain Tavares.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Would rather go with three deadly lines (with running short bench when needed i.e. 2 lines more often)

Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Mikheyev-Tavares-Kapanen
Robertson-Nylander-Johnsson/Kerfoot/xxx
4th line

Dont think Nylander would get enough ice time as a 3C. I also dont think Kap is a good fit in the top 6. Pretty brutal tunnel vision and doesnt use his linemates well.

As soon as JT was signed the leafs doubled down on stacking the top 6 and giving them the lions share of toi