John Moore vs Erik Gudbranson

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by Qubax, Apr 14, 2011.

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  1. Qubax

    Qubax Registered User

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    I know, strange comparison...

    but whose better in the short term and long term, and whose better Offensively and All-around.

    The rookie year that Moore had this year in the AHL is a bit troubling when other less heralded Jackes prospects, ie David Savard, seemed to have passed him on the depth chart.


    Despite this the Jackets summoned Moore to the NHL for a brief stint.

    Gud looks more polished and more developed as a "man" but has less upside?

    Who does everyone think is going to be the better NHLer?

    Thanks
     
  2. Nullus Reverentia

    Nullus Reverentia Hic Sunt Dracones

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    He didn't seem to struggle that all.

    Columbus should draft Murphy to reunite the two.

    Other than that, Gudbranson is obviously the safter player, I would say Gudbranson has the higher upside but Moore is pretty good though.
     
  3. Crede777

    Crede777 Deputized

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    Just wanted to clarify, Savard didn't really pass Moore on the depth chart.

    Even if he had, it's not because Moore is a worse prospect, it's because Savard is a good one.
     
  4. ShawnTHW

    ShawnTHW @ShawnTHW

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    Offensively = Moore without a doubt
    All-around = Gudbranson without a doubt
     
  5. MHJS

    MHJS Registered User

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    Definitely Gudbranson has the higher upside, but after watching him many times this season, he scares me as a potential "franchise" player. He had some horrendous discipline problems this year. A lot of head hunting, fighting with officials, and fighting with coaches. As someone that was a huge fan of his, seeing his actions on the ice this year was definitely a disappointment.
     
  6. Sidney the Kidney

    Sidney the Kidney 3-Peat + 1

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    Really? I thought the opposite.

    Yes, he's got to control the hitting a bit, but I'd rather a guy that had to be reigned in than someone you had to push and prod just to show any sort of physical game from. He got suspended twice for hits to the head, and only one of those hits would have been illegal in the NHL (the first was a clean hit, but the OHL punishes ANYTHING close to the head, unlike the NHL where only blindside head hits are punishable). So one illegal play suddenly raises red flags for you?

    And I'm not sure what fighting with the officials you're referring to. He wears an 'A', so yes he talks to the officials a lot, especially after Kingston penalties. But I didn't see this apparent fighting with officials constantly.

    As far as fighting with the coaches, all I'll say on that is you have to know the situation here in Kingston to understand that it's very difficult to blame Gudbranson for snapping the way he did. Think of it this way: Imagine a parent who calls in sick to work all the time, and instead just sits around watching tv all day long. Imagine a kid who shows up to school regularly, but one singular day decides to skip class. Now imagine that parent having the nerve to question that kid's overall commitment to the team due to that one day, ignoring his perfect attendance previously, all the while coming out of the mouth of someone who is the very definition of lacking commitment. I'll leave it to you to figure out who is the "kid" and who is the "parent" in the above example, and how the same sort of hypocrisy applies.

    If anything, this season proved to me that his offensive upside is a lot greater than many folks give him credit for. He's already regarded as top notch defensively, but he busted out offensively this year to the tune of 12 goals and 34 points in only 44 games. That, by the way, prorates to better numbers than Moore put up as a 19 year old in the OHL.

    IMO, offensively the two (Moore and Gudbranson) aren't as far apart as people seem to believe. Even if Moore has a higher offensive upside, it's not one of those "and it's not even close" deals. And defensively and physically, Gudbranson has a higher upside.
     
  7. malkovsby

    malkovsby Registered User

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    wow nice, can you go a bit more indepth about the coaching situation in kingston??
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2011
  8. puckfan13

    puckfan13 Registered User

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    Seconded. I had no knowledge of this being out west. Him and Gilmour at odds?
     
  9. Sidney the Kidney

    Sidney the Kidney 3-Peat + 1

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    Kind of going off the topic of Moore/Gudbranson, but basically Gilmour is a part-time coach. I believe it was confirmed by both Gilmour and the club that he gets two or three days (depending on if Kingston has a Sunday game) off each week to go back to Toronto. Therefore, he's not around Sunday night, or Monday or Tuesday, when most junior teams have practices/coaching staff meetings. Further, the practices that Kingston has are less structured, less advanced in terms of the systems they practice, and shorter and less intense than most of their fellow junior clubs. Thus, his commitment has been questioned by everyone who follows the club, since he approaches coaching on a part-time basis.

    Now the story regarding the Gudbranson situation is that after a lackluster performance by the team, Gudbranson included, a "staff member" questioned Gudbranson's commitment to the team and his work ethic. Keep in mind this was the only poor game Gudbranson had had, and usually Gudbranson's a hard working, heart-and-soul type on the ice. So while the details are vague about what exactly was said, apparently this accusation didn't sit well with Gudbranson, and the rumor goes he responded back, and likely pointed out the coaching staff's own lack of commitment and the hypocrisy and nerve that they'd question the commitment of players who actually are there full time, when they (or at least Gilmour) treats the position like a part-time occupation.

    Again, while I'm not saying it's right for players to lay into their coaches, I do understand why in this case he did it. Anyone who has followed Kingston has been saying for the past three years now that Gilmour lacks commitment to being a full-time coach. I guess the players feel that way too, and that frustration boiled over when Gudbranson's own commitment was brought into question after a singular bad performance.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2011
  10. JMac13

    JMac13 Registered User

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    I can say that I can pretty much confirm all of this. Gilmour still lives in Toronto and has his assistants run most of his practices - which you can imagine does not sit well with a lot of the players. The only thing I can really add to this is that I "heard" Gudbranson essentially told all of the coaching staff that they were cultivating a losing environment with the way they were running things and the team would never win a damn thing unless something changed.

    For the record I live in Kingston and two of my uncles have season tickets so I see quite a few games. My take on Gudbranson is that he is a fiery kid with a little too much cockiness at this point in his game. But it's tough to blame him when he's a 6'6 220+lb defenseman in a league full of kids. That being said he is competitive as hell and is one of those guys that other players will follow into battle. As a player I love his mean streak, and I love his confidence and really believe he is going to develop into a franchise defenseman. Once he gets into the NHL and has a stronger coach and veteran teammates i'm sure the cockiness will tone down a bit. Like another poster mentioned, its a heck of a lot easier to get a kid to tone down his aggression than it is to teach him it.

    Also his offensive game is pretty underrated as mentioned - skates really well for his size and has a bomb of a shot. I honestly think he has Chris Pronger lite upside.
     

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