Player Discussion John Carlson - Vol. 1

[Alexander the Gr8]

They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome. And that is the path this team is forever on. You can name drop guys that have come and gone. You can say this is just another coach that could not get them over the hump. While all that may be true. None of it will give Nick a seconds gear to take over a playoff game. Or make Holtby steal a playoff series. I can go on but you should get the point.

It's not insanity. The goal here is to make the playoffs, not necessarily to win the Stanley Cup. It's better to be a team that loses all the time in the first two rounds of the playoffs than to miss the playoffs.

Basically, the status quo is the best option for this team right now. Not all change leads to positive results.

 

[OVrocks]

It's not insanity. The goal here is to make the playoffs, not necessarily to win the Stanley Cup. It's better to be a team that loses all the time in the first two rounds of the playoffs than to miss the playoffs.

Basically, the status quo is the best option for this team right now. Not all change leads to positive results.

Being s treadmill team, good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to win the cup isn’t necessarily better. A bad team will at least get a shot at a high pick, who could become a superstar.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Making the playoffs is always better than not IMO. There are zero guarantees in a rebuild. See: Edmonton Oilers.

 

[traparatus]

It's not insanity. The goal here is to make the playoffs, not necessarily to win the Stanley Cup. It's better to be a team that loses all the time in the first two rounds of the playoffs than to miss the playoffs.

Basically, the status quo is the best option for this team right now. Not all change leads to positive results.

What does status quo mean to you? If it's making sure that this team qualifies for playoffs, than I agree. However, there is danger in trying to maintain the same core group by giving out long-term, low-value contracts. We are committing a lot of resources to make sure that this core group stays together because... why? Hockey Gods plowed a straight path for them to get to the Stanley Cup last year and and they blew it. Again.

For example, re-signing Oshie to an 8 year contract is not the status quo that I'm interested in. We can still be a playoff team without that contract. It's a bad contract. It's a case of a GM trying to prolong his stay by a couple of years by sacrificing long term future.

We are capped out. If we re-sign Carlson to a market-value, max term contract, we will stay capped out and continue losing young players for well below their value. Everything about this team screams Chicago Blackhawks circa 2016-2017, sans three Stanley Cups. Now we even have our own Seabrookian contract.

I think they should draw a hard line for Carlson's new contract. $7m, 6 years, no clauses. If he wants to sign a good value, trade-able contract, lets sign him. If not, he can GTFO. We can lose in the 2nd round without him.

 

[Ajax1995]

Being s treadmill team, good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to win the cup isn’t necessarily better.

A mediocre Sens team was one game 7, 2nd OT goal away from playing in the finals last season. Make the playoffs and things break right and anything can happen.

 

[ovikovy817]

Making the playoffs is always better than not IMO. There are zero guarantees in a rebuild. See: Edmonton Oilers.

Agree.
Even with a "generational" player.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

What does status quo mean to you? If it's making sure that this team qualifies for playoffs, than I agree. However, there is danger in trying to maintain the same core group by giving out long-term, low-value contracts. We are committing a lot of resources to make sure that this core group stays together because... why? Hockey Gods plowed a straight path for them to get to the Stanley Cup last year and and they blew it. Again.

For example, re-signing Oshie to an 8 year contract is not the status quo that I'm interested in. We can still be a playoff team without that contract. It's a bad contract. It's a case of a GM trying to prolong his stay by a couple of years by sacrificing long term future.

We are capped out. If we re-sign Carlson to a market-value, max term contract, we will stay capped out and continue losing young players for well below their value. Everything about this team screams Chicago Blackhawks circa 2016-2017, sans three Stanley Cups. Now we even have our own Seabrookian contract.

I think they should draw a hard line for Carlson's new contract. $7m, 6 years, no clauses. If he wants to sign a good value, trade-able contract, lets sign him. If not, he can GTFO. We can lose in the 2nd round without him.

If we do it your way, we're just going to miss the playoffs for the rest of the Ovechkin era. Why the hell do we have Ovechkin, Backstrom, Kuznetsov and Holtby for if it's not to get to the playoffs and roll the dice?

You seem to forget that there is luck involved in the playoffs, and it's not always the best team that wins the Cup. Yes, we had our best chance last year and we blew it, but what if we make it further this year out of luck or thanks to a better individual effort from the leaders of this team.

We lost some good players in the off-season but we have an improved Ovechkin this year. An improved Ovechkin makes a far bigger impact in the regular season and the playoffs than all the Shattenkirks or Johanssons of this world.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Being s treadmill team, good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to win the cup isn’t necessarily better. A bad team will at least get a shot at a high pick, who could become a superstar.

The Edmonton Oilers drafted a generational talent, yet they're not able to find any success. Rebuilding isn't easy, and we can't do that given the current contracts on the team. The last thing I want to see is the Washington Capitals at the bottom of the standings. Losing in the 2nd round sucks, but finishing last in the regular season sucks 100 times more.

 

[maacoshark]

Another over used term generational. Not everyone in the league can be a generational talent. A generational talent is a player that is head and shoulders above the rest of the field in his era. I dont see anyone like that in the NHL right now.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Another over used term generational. Not everyone in the league can be a generational talent. A generational talent is a player that is head and shoulders above the rest of the field in his era. I dont see anyone like that in the NHL right now.

I agree that the term is overused but it applies in McDavid's case. He's the best player in the NHL, and clearly better than anyone in his generation. Matthews is the only one that comes close to him.

 

[maacoshark]

I agree that the term is overused but it applies in McDavid's case. He's the best player in the NHL, and clearly better than anyone in his generation. Matthews is the only one that comes close to him.

I dont consider him a generational talent. He might be the best player in the league. There are so many great players in the league right now how do you consider any of them a generational talent. Is one player any better than the other. There is no player that is head and shoulders above the rest.
Since I have started watching hockey the players would consider generational players are Bobby Orr, Bobby Clarke, Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux for sure. HM"s to Phil Esposito, Jagr and Ovechkin.
Everyone argues about who the best player is. Is it Mcdavid or Matthews. Maybe its Crosby or Malkin, or you could say Kucherov or Stamkos. What about guys like Tavares, Kane or Ovi. MacKinnon and Giriuox are making a case for themselves. Maybe the best player is a defenceman.
Yet my opinion differs from all of those. I think the best player in the league right now is Bergeron. He may not be as skilled as the other guys mentioned but I have never seen such a fundamentally sound player before. I think he is head and shoulders the best defensive forward in the league and has the highest hockey IQ. The next closest guy to him would be Kopitar.

 

[MrGone]

For example, re-signing Oshie to an 8 year contract is not the status quo that I'm interested in.

Thank you, its a terrible contract made in desperation to hold it together. I love the guy he gives his heart on soul on a team does not have a heart. Still his rough and tumble style will not age well.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

I dont consider him a generational talent. He might be the best player in the league. There are so many great players in the league right now how do you consider any of them a generational talent. Is one player any better than the other. There is no player that is head and shoulders above the rest.
Since I have started watching hockey the players would consider generational players are Bobby Orr, Bobby Clarke, Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux for sure. HM"s to Phil Esposito, Jagr and Ovechkin.
Everyone argues about who the best player is. Is it Mcdavid or Matthews. Maybe its Crosby or Malkin, or you could say Kucherov or Stamkos. What about guys like Tavares, Kane or Ovi. MacKinnon and Giriuox are making a case for themselves. Maybe the best player is a defenceman.
Yet my opinion differs from all of those. I think the best player in the league right now is Bergeron. He may not be as skilled as the other guys mentioned but I have never seen such a fundamentally sound player before. I think he is head and shoulders the best defensive forward in the league and has the highest hockey IQ. The next closest guy to him would be Kopitar.

He's the best defensively but he lacks punch offensively. He's not even the most dangerous player on his line, Marchand is a lot more dangerous with the puck while being great defensively.

The best player in the NHL to me is Crosby, followed by McDavid.

 

[maacoshark]

He's the best defensively but he lacks punch offensively. He's not even the most dangerous player on his line, Marchand is a lot more dangerous with the puck while being great defensively.

The best player in the NHL to me is Crosby, followed by McDavid.

Those aren't my type of players. I like good all round players. Guys that make the right decisions and rarely make mistakes. I dont care for the flashy players that score some highlight reel goals but hurt the team in other ways. I know most hockey fans like the skilled players and I respect that. I like skilled players too.
BTW in your previous post you said Mcdavid was the best player in the league and now you said Crosby. Can't go wrong with either player but generational talent, not to me.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Those aren't my type of players. I like good all round players. Guys that make the right decisions and rarely make mistakes. I dont care for the flashy players that score some highlight reel goals but hurt the team in other ways. I know most hockey fans like the skilled players and I respect that. I like skilled players too.
BTW in your previous post you said Mcdavid was the best player in the league and now you said Crosby. Can't go wrong with either player but generational talent, not to me.

I think they're about even, their claim to the title of best player is about the same. Crosby is well rounded now, he is a beast defensively and that's how he won back-to-back CS trophies. He's the most complete player in the NHL for sure. McDavid is the most dangerous offensively for sure.

 

[Sam Spade]

I think they're about even, their claim to the title of best player is about the same. Crosby is well rounded now, he is a beast defensively and that's how he won back-to-back CS trophies. He's the most complete player in the NHL for sure. McDavid is the most dangerous offensively for sure.

This narrative has taken on mythical proportions.

The most well rounded players in the league are guys like Kopitar or Bergeron, even Backstrom when he is scoring.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

This narrative has taken on mythical proportions.

The most well rounded players in the league are guys like Kopitar or Bergeron, even Backstrom when he is scoring.

It's the truth. This is supposed to be a thread about John Carlson, so maybe we can have this conversation elsewhere if you want.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

get a room!

 

[maacoshark]

This narrative has taken on mythical proportions.

The most well rounded players in the league are guys like Kopitar or Bergeron, even Backstrom when he is scoring.

Those are my top 3 players.

 

[maacoshark]

It's the truth. This is supposed to be a thread about John Carlson, so maybe we can have this conversation elsewhere if you want.

Right. And Carlson had another decent game. A couple more assists. He was on the ice for 2 goals against but wouldn't blame him on either. He has to be in contention for a Norris.

 

[txpd]

They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome. And that is the path this team is forever on. You can name drop guys that have come and gone. You can say this is just another coach that could not get them over the hump. While all that may be true. None of it will give Nick a seconds gear to take over a playoff game. Or make Holtby steal a playoff series. I can go on but you should get the point.

Holtby has stolen a playoff series. Lets not go overboard

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Holtby has stolen a playoff series. Lets not go overboard

The 2012 series vs the Bruins was a long time ago, Tex.

 

[Hivemind]

The 2012 series vs the Bruins was a long time ago, Tex.

He did everything he could to steal another in 2015, but the Caps offense continued to elevate Lundqvist to godhood.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

He did everything he could to steal another in 2015, but the Caps offense continued to elevate Lundqvist to godhood.

Are you talking about the 2015 series when he let in 4 goals at home in G6?

 

[Calicaps]

This is a Carlson thread. Not Holtby and certainly not McDavid.