News Article: Joe Veleno

[The Zermanator]

I wonder if he's hurt. I mean, his offense has been very consistent for basically the entire year, and then he suddenly can't do anything at all.

No more easy 4-6 point nights playing horrible teams this far into the season.

 

[Shaman464]

I wonder if he's hurt. I mean, his offense has been very consistent for basically the entire year, and then he suddenly can't do anything at all.

I think its from how the game changes from regular season to playoffs. Its a much tighter game, and from the few people who have seen him play, it seems that tighter play doesn't suit him as well.

 

[lilidk]

I think its from how the game changes from regular season to playoffs. Its a much tighter game, and from the few people who have seen him play, it seems that tighter play doesn't suit him as well.

If that's true , he doesn't belong to NHL

 

[Hen Kolland]

If that's true , he doesn't belong to NHL

Players like Nyquist don't handle tighter play either. Evidenced by how terrible he is in the playoffs. Veleno will be fine

 

[Konnan511]

Players like Nyquist don't handle tighter play either. Evidenced by how terrible he is in the playoffs. Veleno will be fine

Nyquist was fantastic in game 7, especially in the OT.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Nyquist was fantastic in game 7, especially in the OT.

Gustav Nyquist, career, in the NHL playoffs:
42 games played
4 goals
7 assists
14:05 ATOI
0.26 points per game
1.12 points per 60

Compared to his regular season career:
500 games played
131 goals
175 assists
16:31 ATOI
0.61 points per game
2.225 points per 60

He may have had a somewhat decent series this year with SJ, but he's 1000000% not a playoff performer.

 

[Oddbob]

Nyquist was fantastic in game 7, especially in the OT.

He was invisible. He had a few shifts and did nothing. Are you thinking of Meier, as he was the one that was awesome in the OT, Nyquist didn't do anything.

 

[The Zermanator]

Gustav Nyquist, career, in the NHL playoffs:
42 games played
4 goals
7 assists
14:05 ATOI
0.26 points per game
1.12 points per 60

Compared to his regular season career:
500 games played
131 goals
175 assists
16:31 ATOI
0.61 points per game
2.225 points per 60

He may have had a somewhat decent series this year with SJ, but he's 1000000% not a playoff performer.

You make a valid point, but this is also the first time he has played in the postseason with a halfway decent team.

 

[lilidk]

He was invisible. He had a few shifts and did nothing. Are you thinking of Meier, as he was the one that was awesome in the OT, Nyquist didn't do anything.

We didn't get much for Gus, but looks like no-one is upset. He was second best forward for wings,pathetic

 

[Oddbob]

We didn't get much for Gus, but looks like no-one is upset. He was second best forward for wings,pathetic

Funny that some on here want us to bring him back. We already knew he wasn't a playoff performer and most seasons he is a 40 pt winger.

 

[Hen Kolland]

You make a valid point, but this is also the first time he has played in the postseason with a halfway decent team.

That's fair. He's not going to be nearly as heavily relied on as he was with Detroit, and as a result, he might skate by without catching any flak. At the same time, he might see is production get a decent boost by playing with linemates who can finish or set him up a bit more consistently.

The overall point was illustrating how you can be a pretty damn good hockey player that plays a game that lends itself more to regular season than post season, and on the contrary, you can have a player like Bertuzzi whose game elevates with the tighter and more physical the game becomes. Both have their place on a good team.

 

[ricky0034]

Gustav Nyquist, career, in the NHL playoffs:
42 games played
4 goals
7 assists
14:05 ATOI
0.26 points per game
1.12 points per 60

Compared to his regular season career:
500 games played
131 goals
175 assists
16:31 ATOI
0.61 points per game
2.225 points per 60

He may have had a somewhat decent series this year with SJ, but he's 1000000% not a playoff performer.

I think context gets lost too easily over such a small sample size

18 of those 42 games were in 11-12 and 12-13 at the very start of his career when he was still bouncing around between the AHL/NHL and playing in the bottom 6

and then in 2013-14 he played 5 games and the Wings were beyond atrocious offensively as a team during the Playoffs(they were literally the lowest scoring team with 1.2 goals per game while the next worst had 2.29)

then his other two years here the Wings as a team were 11th out of 16th and 15th out of 16th respectively

this year was literally his first Playoff series where he wasn't either at the very start of his career(yeah he only put up 5 points in 18 games those two years but he also only put up 13 in 40 over the regular season during those years) or on a team that was performing completely terribly offensively as a whole and even this year he's still getting used to a new team at the moment

 

[Hen Kolland]

I think context gets lost too easily over such a small sample size

18 of those 42 games were in 11-12 and 12-13 at the very start of his career when he was still bouncing around between the AHL/NHL and playing in the bottom 6

and then in 2013-14 he played 5 games and the Wings were beyond atrocious offensively as a team during the Playoffs(they were literally the lowest scoring team with 1.2 goals per game while the next worst had 2.29)

then his other two years here the Wings as a team were 11th out of 16th and 15th out of 16th respectively

this year was literally his first Playoff series where he wasn't either at the very start of his career(yeah he only put up 5 points in 18 games those two years but he also only put up 13 in 40 over the regular season during those years) or on a team that was performing completely terribly offensively as a whole and even this year he's still getting used to a new team at the moment

You realize if you remove 11-12 and 12-13 from the discussion his numbers become: 24 GP, 2 goals, 4 assists in 15:50 ATOI. Which translates to 0.25 points per game or 0.95 points per 60. He gets worse when you take out those 18 games from the first part of his career.

For someone who is willing to write off a 19 year old overmatched in his jump from the WHL to the NHL, I'd expect you to at least understand a statistical performance based criticism of a player who has been a terrible playoff performer through the prime of his career. Yes, the Red Wings weren't the best team in the playoffs from 13-16, but I would expect better than 3 points in 17 games. Yes, he has shown signs of improvement playing on a better team, but he still isn't the same player in the playoffs as he is during the regular season.

 

[ricky0034]

You realize if you remove 11-12 and 12-13 from the discussion his numbers become: 24 GP, 2 goals, 4 assists in 15:50 ATOI. Which translates to 0.25 points per game or 0.95 points per 60. He gets worse when you take out those 18 games from the first part of his career.

For someone who is willing to write off a 19 year old overmatched in his jump from the WHL to the NHL, I'd expect you to at least understand a statistical performance based criticism of a player who has been a terrible playoff performer through the prime of his career. Yes, the Red Wings weren't the best team in the playoffs from 13-16, but I would expect better than 3 points in 17 games. Yes, he has shown signs of improvement playing on a better team, but he still isn't the same player in the playoffs as he is during the regular season.

I just think it's beyond silly to read much into so few games on a team that was performing terribly as a whole

even Zetterberg only had 6 points in 14 games those years is he a bad Playoff player too?

 

[firestarter]

What's this thread about? I think I got lost

 

[Hen Kolland]

I just think it's beyond silly to read much into so few games on a team that was performing terribly as a whole

even Zetterberg only had 6 points in 14 games those years is he a bad Playoff player too?

I looked at Nyquist's entire career, man. You call it sample size, I call it the entire f***ing data sample. Until he does something that changes the narrative, he is a shit playoff performer.

FYI:
Zetterberg
137 GP, 57 goals, 63 assists in 21:03 ATOI. That's 0.876 points per game played. 2.495 points per 60. Compare that to Nyquist and let me know how that reflects on him. Or let's isolate it to Nyquist's career. 33 GP, 21 points in 19:57. 0.64 points per game; 1.91 points per 60. Or let's isolate it further by removing Nyquist's first two years. 14 GP, 6 points in 18:49. 0.43 points per game; 1.37 points per 60. Zetterberg in his twilight years with a f***ed up back at the age of 33-35 still managed to out produce Nyquist in Nyquist's prime aged years on the same teams.

 

[Hen Kolland]

But back to my original point, even if Veleno can't be a big producer in the playoffs won't keep him from being a quality NHL player. It will prevent him from being a great player. Nobody is going to tell stories about him, but he can still be an important piece to a team.

And this is all a hypothetical. He still may turn into a playoff performer with time, training, and development. No reason to worry about him at this point.

 

[Shaman464]

But back to my original point, even if Veleno can't be a big producer in the playoffs won't keep him from being a quality NHL player. It will prevent him from being a great player. Nobody is going to tell stories about him, but he can still be an important piece to a team.

And this is all a hypothetical. He still may turn into a playoff performer with time, training, and development. No reason to worry about him at this point.

No one knows what he will turn into. He needs time in the AHL to learn the pro game, and see if his offense can translate.

 

[Hen Kolland]

No one knows what he will turn into. He needs time in the AHL to learn the pro game, and see if his offense can translate.

I’d like him to get some games in the NHL next year, but I’m not forcing his way into the roster. Definitely needs to earn his way with performance in GR.

 

[Shaman464]

I’d like him to get some games in the NHL next year, but I’m not forcing his way into the roster. Definitely needs to earn his way with performance in GR.

If he plays well in GR, that's fine. But at this point, he's a big fish in a small pond. Its time for him to show if he's got what it takes to be an offensive player in the NHL, or if he's going to be a bottom 6 center, who plays good defensively and kills penalties. The only place he will be able to do that is at the pro-level. GR being the place where he will likely get the minutes and linemates to define his role.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

No more easy 4-6 point nights playing horrible teams this far into the season.

That would explain steady, unspectacular production, but not really this. I mean, we're talking about a guy who averaged a PPG on one of the most brutal teams in recent memory (Saint John last year). If he can do that, surely he can average a PPG on a depth line on an insanely stacked team in the playoffs. Otherwise we have drafted a complete bum, it would seem.

Like we'd have to be re-imagining the season as huge clumps of points garnered against the worst teams and long droughts in between, and we haven't seen that. He had a much more consistent season than this kind of criticism would suggest. IMO injury is the most reasonable cause of this kind of a downturn.

 

[Shaman464]

That would explain steady, unspectacular production, but not really this. I mean, we're talking about a guy who averaged a PPG on one of the most brutal teams in recent memory (Saint John last year). If he can do that, surely he can average a PPG on a depth line on an insanely stacked team in the playoffs. Otherwise we have drafted a complete bum, it would seem.

Like we'd have to be re-imagining the season as huge clumps of points garnered against the worst teams and long droughts in between, and we haven't seen that. He had a much more consistent season than this kind of criticism would suggest. IMO injury is the most reasonable cause of this kind of a downturn.

Injury isn't that reasonable, when his team's GF/g has dropped as well, and all the other players that were well over a ppg now are at or below a ppg. That would be explained by the playoffs being played tighter than the regular season.

 

[TheMule93]

That would explain steady, unspectacular production, but not really this. I mean, we're talking about a guy who averaged a PPG on one of the most brutal teams in recent memory (Saint John last year). If he can do that, surely he can average a PPG on a depth line on an insanely stacked team in the playoffs. Otherwise we have drafted a complete bum, it would seem.

Like we'd have to be re-imagining the season as huge clumps of points garnered against the worst teams and long droughts in between, and we haven't seen that. He had a much more consistent season than this kind of criticism would suggest. IMO injury is the most reasonable cause of this kind of a downturn.

Take a chill pill dude, we didn't draft a complete bum. One playoff run doesn't mean shit. Look at Rasmussen, had like 2ppg in last years playoffs but he has the skillset of a 4th liner in the NHL.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Take a chill pill dude, we didn't draft a complete bum. One playoff run doesn't mean ****. Look at Rasmussen, had like 2ppg in last years playoffs but he has the skillset of a 4th liner in the NHL.

You're misunderstanding me. I'm saying for this to just be a lack of skill, Veleno would have to be a total bum who only scores on bad teams, since he's not producing at all right now. But because we have regular season evidence to the contrary, that explanation seems unlikely. The next most likely explanation for the sudden drop in production is that he's injured.

But that's a good point too. Rasmussen scored a billion points a game last year in a better league on a worse team. Are we to believe that Rasmussen was a way better junior level offensive player than Veleno? Veleno beats up on bad teams, but Rasmussen never had to? I don't believe that at all.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Take a chill pill dude, we didn't draft a complete bum. One playoff run doesn't mean ****. Look at Rasmussen, had like 2ppg in last years playoffs but he has the skillset of a 4th liner in the NHL.

You should do the same on these two statements, he is 19 years old.