Joe Sakic - Redeemed as an NHL GM?

[Kamiccolo]

The Avs need to make the playoffs for him to be a good GM. It's easier to get valuable pieces in trades when you're forced to trade disgruntled talent because your team sucks.

I have good news then..

 

[Foppberg]

Love him, hope he's here for a long time.

 

[ThatGuy22]

I don't think he is getting enough credit, personally. He was also taking over an organization which had been a total **** show top to bottom for years since the first lockout. He has steadily improved the organization as a whole during his whole tenure. This is the best our prospect pool has looked in 20 years. Our drafting has improved, we have a solid (to really good imo) coach. IMO for every bad decision he has made he has made two good ones. There has been a whole culture change in the Avalanche organization and it doesn't start with anyone else.

The "culture" improved because they won a decent amount of games and made the playoffs. No one had complaints about the culture in 2014, and yet in 2015-2017 the culture was terrible all of a sudden. Now in 2018 it's fixed, and Sakic gets all the credit.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Much better last two years. Great first year, then I think Roy pushed him to lose the long-term plan we had. He seems to be on the right path again.

 

[5280]

The "culture" improved because they won a decent amount of games and made the playoffs. No one had complaints about the culture in 2014, and yet in 2015-2017 the culture was terrible all of a sudden. Now in 2018 it's fixed, and Sakic gets all the credit.

He deserves all the credit, IMO. Except for Roy’s first year, the culture has sucked for years, ever since the lockout. Sure there has been a learning curve and I think he places too much emphasis on acquiring players that have Stanley Cup experience no matter how old they are, but I think the general curve of building a strong organization top to bottom has been trending positive ever since he showed up. It’s just taken him this long to weed through the shit.

 

[ClydeLee]

He's on a good path now but the attempts to praise him ignore or blame other factors to the failure he was having.

Whether Roy influenced or not it's not like they were trying to rebuild. He had a team hypes as the great next young team and tried to add playoff vets to the fold and other decisions that collapsed them. Now hea building back from his mistakes.

 

[Soedy]

Yeah, I definitely wouldn’t trade Girard for an unsigned Duchene 1 for 1 right now.

I wouldn't do it for a signed Duchene either.

 

[Echo Roku]

He's on a good path now but the attempts to praise him ignore or blame other factors to the failure he was having.

Whether Roy influenced or not it's not like they were trying to rebuild. He had a team hypes as the great next young team and tried to add playoff vets to the fold and other decisions that collapsed them. Now hea building back from his mistakes.

I don’t think anyone denies those

Many chalk it to growing pains as he got better at the position, though, with good reason

 

[GirardSpinorama]

He hasnt been perfect but no GM has. Still needs to be better at drafting and could also be more aggressive in UFA. You can tell he has improved over time, kinda like prospects improve. I can see him pulling in a big fish next off season and really take the Avs to the next level.

 

[bdp]

Trading with Dorion is cheating though.

 

[Hasbro]

It's easier to get valuable pieces in trades when you're forced to trade disgruntled talent because your team sucks.

Anyone tell that to Dorion?

 

[puckIuck]

one trade took them from the basement to the playoffs

 

[LABound]

Maybe I'm off base, but a pattern I've noticed with some of the more successful GMs/ Front Offices seems to show that former players that were top level earners Career wise seem to produce much better results , maybe through having no distraction over job security , owner interference etc...
Essentially they can walk if they don't like the direction of the organization or they have ownership stakes which would motivate further.

Shanahan -Yzerman- Mario and soon to be Sakic they aren't weighed down with trying to appease anyone they are secure in thier future regardless .

This also could create a confidence and focus which is more insightful if you look at some of the other GMs/coaches who have struggled,.

First thing I see is that while they had long or successful careers they may not have the cushion these elite earners have... A couple of million dollars can get eaten up quicky if you have a certain lifestyle you develop during your playing days. Cut that once you retire, it would effect you mentally on alot of levels... in most cases I'm assuming they would want to keep the same quality of living .

This WOULD in theory effect job performance/decision making in a lot of instances. Snow/ Bergevin/ Oilers Brain trust etc... Are some good examples .

Look at the most successful player GMs/ Front offices it's generally filled with some of the games all time top earners ......food for thought. For the lower earning players /role players ,defensive defensman, /short playing careers etc...obviously they would feel different pressure for success and to keep the positions they hold which would affect decision making due to other stressors like job security. There are former players beating down the doors of these teams trying to find high end positions employment etc...don't kid yourselves If a GM suddenly is making the same money they made in thier playing days 10-15 -20 years ago it's hard to quantify the pressure to maintainthe a lifestyle they had gotten used to.


Unless you are in the situation its hard to comprehend. How can we relate or feel compassion for guys that made hundreds of thousands of dollars minimum a year or millions over a career but that's just not looking at it objectively ...I mean anyone that is accustomed to making a certain amount would have thier life affected once that income ceases. Guys like Yzerman or Mario would never have this pressure or concern. 50millon plus or ownership stakes would probually make decision making much easier .

It's the guys who toiled as a 6th defender or 4C etc that truly feel the pressure the turnover rate is extremley high .....and other former players trying to get a foot in the door .

Imagine every season former players coming looking for your jobs it happens every year....it's hard to identify for most of us and our modest livings... but it's something to consider looking at it objectify and based in results and patterns .

The NHL is a relatively small multi -billion dollar company when you look at the top jobs.

The competition must be cutthroat and constant probually why it's easy for the guys that made the top billing salaries that don't feel as threatened as a Kevin Lowe or Bergevin Snow or others.

Then you have to consider the market.

If the owners arent making tons of money on top of poor performance turnover will get even higher. Also they will tend to interfere more like a any struggling business and nothing hurts leadership/management more than undermining or taking away autonomy .


Maybe none of this is relevant but it screams at me like a missing peice of a puzzle .


Apollogies for the lack of writing skills and structure I have never received a formal education lol.

There is so much more I've noticed , but I'll wait to see if I'm way off base.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

I was just thinking today how good the Avs actually are right now, and how bad the team was in 16-17. It's incredible how much they've improved over a short period of time.

Avs lineup, more or less, in opening night 16-17 (i know lines aren't correct but w/e)

Landeskog - Duchene - Iginla
Grigorenko - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Comeau - Soderberg - R. Bourque
Martinsen - Colborne - Mitchell
McLeod

Johnson - Zadorov
Barrie - Beauchemin
Tyutin - Wiercoch
Goloubef

Varlamov
Pickard

Players in red are not with the team anymore. Out of these 14 players, 10 (TEN) players, just 2 years after, do not currently play in the NHL.

Avs current roster to start the 18-19 season, changes made through trades, waiver pickups, FA and prospects graduating, all inside 2 calendar years.

Landeskog - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Kerfoot - Jost - Wilson
Nieto - Soderberg - Calvert
Andrighetto - Compher - G. Bourque
Kamenev

Girard - Johnson
Cole - Barrie
Zadorov - Nemeth
Barberio

Varlamov
Grubauer

I absolutely love the defence as it has a bit of everything (in 16-17 Barberio was their 4th best dman after getting claimed, now he's their #7), goaltending is solid, they have one of the better top lines, bottom 6 is decent and young guys with upside on the 2nd line. Also the depth all-around decent in the organization.

What i find amazing is that after replacing over half of their roster, they still have all of their picks for the next 3 years aside from one 4th rounder. Good prospects like Makar and Kaut in the pipeline and of course, the Senators unprotected 1st round pick this year.

They also have 12M in cap space, and zero albatross contracts.

I mean, the team is set for one of the brighest futures in the league, but not only that, the team right now is very underrated. I think they can crack 100 pts this year without it being a fluke. Like, if you really think about it, this team is probably just a great 2C away from being a legitimate cup contender. Boston is viewed as a top tier team and to me their lineups are looking quite similar.

Anyway, Joe Sakic took so much crap around here year ago. He's quietly fixed everything that was wrong with the team in 16-17 without giving up much of anything, actually, he gained assets in the process

Big thumps up

 

[Royale With Cheese]

To be fair though, he did deal with Dorion.

 

[hockeeyyy]

To be fair though, he did deal with Dorion.

This is how Chiarelli was able to find a job after Boston -- he dealt with Brian Bourke.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Sakic has been on fire since Roy left. The first few years were rough but he's been outstanding after that. Very few GMs have done a better job in the past 2 years.

 

[Dominance]

It helps that Sam Girard is playing like an all-around 1D.

 

[Foppberg]

I don't like that we're starting to become recognized. We're still horrible JS sucks MacKinnon sucks lock this up

With that said thanks OP. We do need secondary scoring badly, that's our #1 area of concern along with a #2C to go behind MacK.

 

[hooverdam]

Sakic doesn't get enough credit for identifying the right players to dump while keeping the good players. A lot of people, including the media and people on this board, wanted him to go full fire sale and sell off the core, the traditional way to rebuild that would've kept the team in the basement for another several years. Sakic resisted, put his faith in the right players, and was rewarded for it.

 

[Ararana]

Wait until we add Cale Makar, Shane Bowers, Martin Kaut, and two 2019 first rounders to the roster over the next couple of years.

 

[Wats]

Sakic doesn't get enough credit for identifying the right players to dump while keeping the good players. A lot of people, including the media and people on this board, wanted him to go full fire sale and sell off the core, the traditional way to rebuild that would've kept the team in the basement for another several years. Sakic resisted, put his faith in the right players, and was rewarded for it.

Didn't they rebuild in a relatively traditional way? Sold off Duchene/ROR, got 1st/2nd overall picks, drafted well with the other top 10 picks, acquired extra picks/prospects

 

[Dominance]

Wait until we add Cale Makar, Shane Bowers, Martin Kaut, and two 2019 first rounders to the roster over the next couple of years.

Timmins is amazing, too. Avs are gonna go from one of the weakest defensive lineups in the league to one of the strongest.

Girard is showing he can be a #1.
Johnson, when he’s on, is definitely a top-pairing guy.
Barrie and Zadorov are great top-4 guys who perform separate special teams roles exceptionally well.
Cole and Nemeth are highly consistent and well-rounded players who I think would form the 3rd pair for pretty much every team in the league.
Cale Makar is an elite prospect. Timmins had an outstanding conclusion to his junior career.

 

[seancolorado]

Can we not have attention, I'm conditioned to expect insults, so please bring them on to balance the positivity. Or sweep this thread under the rug as I return lurking in the shadows

 

[Kale Makar]

Can we not have attention, I'm conditioned to expect insults, so please bring them on to balance the positivity. Or sweep this thread under the rug as I return lurking in the shadows

I mean when you have a dirty, good for nothing, 3rd line grinder for captain nothing else matters. Ruins the i m a g e of the team