Joe Sakic - Record as Colorado Avalanche GM - Part III (Updates in First Post)

[Metallo]

Well, considering the team will never be deeper (which is kind of sad), this was definitely the year to go for it. Landy/Makar/Grubs will be 13-15 million dollars more expensive next year.

It’s actually a massive indictment that Sakic didn’t recognize this.

If this is the deepest we can get when it’s clearly not deep enough then we might just have to abandon all hope.

 

[nammerus]

If this is the deepest we can get when it’s clearly not deep enough then we might just have to abandon all hope.

Nah. Just hope all the teams better then us lose their top line C/D or goalie to injury during a run and we should be good.

 

[McMetal]

Are you blaming Joe when he was right in hindsight? (That is a new one.) He probably knew more about his team than any bookie or « expert ».

You can’t go all in every year and certainly not with our drafting or prospect poll. You have to pick your spot.

If Joe didn’t feel it was the time, I back him 100%.

I mean, how do you know Janmark on our team instead of Vegas, which would have improved our center depth and weakened theirs, wouldn't have ended differently? Like I said, I think the experience of losing has colored your perceptions of what this team could have been capable of.

Just because a team doesn't win doesn't mean they were never a contender to begin with. That would mean there's only one "contender" per year. If Tampa loses to Montreal, does that automatically mean they were paper tigers all along? That isn't how it works.

I generally give Sakic high marks (I haven't changed my 5 from the poll yet), but the weak deadline moves were a bad move no matter how you cut it up. I just don't see how you could objectively look at the season we had and think we didn't stand a chance to win the Cup.

 

[Shane Diesel]

I for one am devastated Sakic didn't give up a first for a guy like Nick Foligno.

 

[Metallo]

I mean, how do you know Janmark on our team instead of Vegas, which would have improved our center depth and weakened theirs, wouldn't have ended differently? Like I said, I think the experience of losing has colored your perceptions of what this team could have been capable of.

Just because a team doesn't win doesn't mean they were never a contender to begin with. That would mean there's only one "contender" per year. If Tampa loses to Montreal, does that automatically mean they were paper tigers all along? That isn't how it works.

I generally give Sakic high marks (I haven't changed my 5 from the poll yet), but the weak deadline moves were a bad move no matter how you cut it up. I just don't see how you could objectively look at the season we had and think we didn't stand a chance to win the Cup.

There were no material moves that would have changed our fate, Janmark, Foligno, Savard, etc.

Going out of our way to hand out high picks and good prospects is not the way to go. I much prefer that they are invested in building the team like the Toews move.

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

I was all in in terms of paying futures to get better. I wouldn't have mind on bit if we had paid our first, Kaut, Bower, Helleson or futurs like that to get better for the playoffs.

However, I didn't really want us to hamper the coming season by adding cap space that would have caused excess bonuses to spill over significantly next season.

But I do not understand properly how bonus excess carryforward works so I can't conclude whether it was a significant factor in Sakic staying put or if it was mainly because he wasn't willing to pay the cost in assets. But we have so many interestig assets that I would be surprised if the cost was te man reason. I tend to think it was because of cap spill-over. But I could be wrong...

 

[McMetal]

There were no material moves that would have changed our fate, Janmark, Foligno, Savard, etc.

Going out of our way to hand out high picks and good prospects is not the way to go. I much prefer that they are invested in building the team like the Toews move.

I just think there is zero way to know that for sure.

If this core couldn't win this year, with MacKinnon and Makar on sweetheart contracts, then none of them will ever win a Cup and we may as well start trying for Connor Bedard now. This was the best and deepest team we're going to be able to ice for a long time, if there was ever a time to go all in, it was this deadline.

 

[filip85]

Happy 52nd Birthday to our GM and best player in franchise history !

 

[MarkT]

After the Graves trade, if Sakic manages to remove Compher's cap hit and loses only Donskoi to expansion, I might have to move my vote back up to 5. If goes down to 3 if he re-signs Nemeth though.

Whether Landy re-signs or not is partially out of Sakic's hands. If Landy wants to chase the money then I wish him all the best wherever he ends up.

 

[Shane Diesel]

Joe Sakic is the king of asset management. It's beautiful, shrewd and smart.

Since Roy left...

 

[Richard88]

Joe Sakic is the king of asset management. It's beautiful, shrewd and smart.

Since Roy left...

... since Chris MacFarland arrived...

 

[MarkT]

... since Chris MacFarland arrived...

I honestly get a bit worried every time a GM position opens up and his name gets mentioned. I wouldn't be surprised if Joe moves up and gives him the job (like what happened in Vegas) if it's looking like we'd lose him.

 

[Foppa2118]

I honestly get a bit worried every time a GM position opens up and his name gets mentioned. I wouldn't be surprised if Joe moves up and gives him the job (like what happened in Vegas) if it's looking like we'd lose him.

It think MacFarland has been a tremendous addition. Especially on the analytical side of things, to build a team that suits Bednar's philosophies.

But part of me also feels like the playoffs showed they might have gone a little too far in the skill/possession side of things.

Zadorov is a good example. The writing was on the wall for him to leave, and losing him wasn't that big a blow, but they didn't really replace his size and physicality on the blueline.

Toews is obviously a big upgrade on Z, but he doesn't bring to the table what Z brought. He brings what a lot of the other Av D men bring. That left them with a very talented blue line, but not necessarily the kind of balanced blueline I think you need to win the Cup.

 

[MarkT]

It think MacFarland has been a tremendous addition. Especially on the analytical side of things, to build a team that suits Bednar's philosophies.

But part of me also feels like the playoffs showed they might have gone a little too far in the skill/possession side of things.

Zadorov is a good example. The writing was on the wall for him to leave, and losing him wasn't that big a blow, but they didn't really replace his size and physicality on the blueline.

Toews is obviously a big upgrade on Z, but he doesn't bring to the table what Z brought. He brings what a lot of the other Av D men bring. That left them with a very talented blue line, but not necessarily the kind of balanced blueline I think you need to win the Cup.

It's really hard to say what MacFarland is responsible for specifically though. All I know is that since he arrived Sakic went from a mediocre-to-bad GM to one of if not the best in the league. Part of me suspects that is due to MacFarland's influence, and I don't really want to find out I'm right when he gets hired to manage another team.

 

[nammerus]

Cap hell after one year of true contention. And couldn’t even get out of the second round.

Yeoman's work by Sakic.

 

[Pokecheque]

Cap hell after one year of true contention. And couldn’t even get out of the second round.

Yeoman's work by Sakic.

This is not “cap hell”. Cap hell is sending three conditional picks for literally no return to dump a contract. Cap hell is buying out Parise and Suter for a future dead cap hit that outpaces the highest paid player in the league. Cap hell is having to continually tap dance around LTIR to ice a competitive roster.

Sakic made mistakes this past year IMO but if anything he erred on the side of caution. He already dumped one onerous contract and is likely set to lose another in expansion. And there’s really no contract on the books that’s truly horrible. Just because the cap is now a huge factor, like it is with literally EVERY contending team in the league, and some who aren’t, it ain’t “cap hell.”

 

[Avsfan1921]

Cap hell after one year of true contention. And couldn’t even get out of the second round.

Yeoman's work by Sakic.

He shoulda seen the flat cap coming and traded Landeskog sooner, fire him.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

So Sakic has gone through two Expansion Drafts and he gave up only Pickard and Donskoi. That's pretty darn good considering Donskoi's cap space was really needed by the team.

 

[Foppa2118]

So Sakic has gone through two Expansion Drafts and he gave up only Pickard and Donskoi. That's pretty darn good considering Donskoi's cap space was really needed by the team.

Man there were some upset people at the time with Joe exposing Pickard instead of Varly though.

 

[McMetal]

When you compare Sakic to how other GMs did, he actually did brilliantly. We were one of the rare teams that actually forced Seattle to take a bad contract off our hands and clear cap space. Poor Nashville dangled two juicy pieces of bait and still didn't get the Kraken to bite either one.

 

[MarkT]

Alright Joe. Good job. Now just find a team that values JT Compher and fill out the roster with guys who want to play for a championship.

 

[Hasbro]

When you compare Sakic to how other GMs did, he actually did brilliantly. We were one of the rare teams that actually forced Seattle to take a bad contract off our hands and clear cap space. Poor Nashville dangled two juicy pieces of bait and still didn't get the Kraken to bite either one.

And got a couple nice assets for another bad contract.

 

[Go19]

When you compare Sakic to how other GMs did, he actually did brilliantly. We were one of the rare teams that actually forced Seattle to take a bad contract off our hands and clear cap space. Poor Nashville dangled two juicy pieces of bait and still didn't get the Kraken to bite either one.

Donskoi contract wasn't "bad" IMO - it was cap space that got freed up which was helpful. But that contract was about right for a player like Donskoi. Compher's is bad.

 

[duckbear]

Donskoi contract wasn't "bad" IMO - it was cap space that got freed up which was helpful. But that contract was about right for a player like Donskoi. Compher's is bad.

I'm not a huge JT Compher fan either, but I don't get this.

Last 4 NHL seasons - Compher and Donskoi , which one is which?

Yeah, I can figure it out too, but only because last season Compher had a worse than normal year, which he picked up at the end when he was finally moved to wing instead of centre. He was also playing further down the lineup (rightfully). Let's stop acting like Donskoi is miles above Compher. He's not. He's also older, and makes a bit more money. JT isn't necessarily the greatest when he does other roles, but he is at least flexible in that he is capable of lining up at centre and killing penalties, and he can certainly antagonize.

I'd still trade Compher, don't get me wrong, but it's not like he is being paid 6 million a year or something. And if you think Donskoi is 'worth it', why would you think Compher is not?

 

[flyfysher]

I'm not a huge JT Compher fan either, but I don't get this.

Last 4 NHL seasons - Compher and Donskoi , which one is which?
View attachment 454825

View attachment 454826
why would you think Compher is not?

Ineffective player other than a 4W. For his salary he is overpaid.

But let's focus on trading him. That's the constructive route.