Joe Sakic - Record as Colorado Avalanche GM - Part III (Updates in First Post)

How would you rate the job Joe Sakic has done to date as Avalanche GM? (editable)


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Nihiliste

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Feb 8, 2010
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It seems to me we need to upgrade our medical and training staff. We never seem to have any clue what the timetable is on our players. Why did we come into this season thinking Frankie was good to go, for example?
 

Foppa2118

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Oct 3, 2003
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It seems to me we need to upgrade our medical and training staff. We never seem to have any clue what the timetable is on our players. Why did we come into this season thinking Frankie was good to go, for example?

That's not an issue with the medical and training staff. That's an issue with the organization and the coach not wanting to be forthright with fans. They intentionally want to be as vague as possible, and as we've seen they just won't say anything at all if given the opportunity.

It's incredibly frustrating to me since it's been going on so long. The only time it wasn't really was when Roy was coach, and went out of his way to make things more transparent for fans.

With all his years playing at a high level and coaching at various levels, even he knew that the risk for opposing players intentionally targeting injured players with dirty plays was overblown in todays NHL. Between the agents, trainers, and friends on opposing teams talking, everyone probably knows anyway.

I really see no point to being so secretive whatsoever. Especially at the expense of the fans who help fund their salaries.
 

5280

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Sakic and co’s biggest tests at the moment are - what to do about the goalie situation? and how they are going to acquire a 3rd line center? It will be interesting to see how they handle both of these problems. They seem to be more patient than a lot of people on this board but I’m not sure even I want to see Hunter Miska play again and am realistically losing a lot of faith in JTC even though it is still really early in the season.
 
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Foppa2118

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To his credit, Bednar has said before that it doesn’t benefit them to be more detailed with medical updates, so they aren’t. I don’t like it either but there ya have it.

It benefits the fans. And the fans help pay their salaries. It doesn't benefit them to do any interviews at all. But they do it all the time for the fans.

I like Bednar but his worries about what will happen if they tell fans what happened to players that suddenly disappeared, is very overblown IMO.

Instead of thinking about it like, "how will it benefit us" he should be thinking about it like, "how will it really hurt us?"
 
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To his credit, Bednar has said before that it doesn’t benefit them to be more detailed with medical updates, so they aren’t. I don’t like it either but there ya have it.
To his credit, Bednar has said before that it doesn’t benefit them to be more detailed with medical updates, so they aren’t. I don’t like it either but there ya have it.
Seriously, paint a bullseye on it for the goons on the other team.
 

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Seriously, paint a bullseye on it for the goons on the other team.

Ken Hitchcock blasted that notion full of holes. If a player’s gonna target someone they’ll do so regardless of whether they know the guy was injured.

The only exception I can think of is that shitbag Matt Bumwhack, who never threw a f***ing check the whole time he was with the Avs except when he rammed the head of his old teammate Marc Savard into the glass. But I don’t believe it to be a common occurrence.
 
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Foppa2118

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Between the agents, trainers, teammates, former teammates, etc, the opposition probably knows how other players are injured anyway. The only ones who don't are the fans.
 

PAZ

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Can we take a moment to appreciate Sakic + our scouting department for nailing our high picks? Even though it's a huge luxury to pick top 10 in 4 out of the 6 recent drafts, they have pretty much nailed each pick.

2015 - Rantanen (alternatives at the time were Meier, Crouse, Barzal IIRC).
2016 - Jost (didn't develop as expected and people will point to McAvoy, but this draft was garbage)
2017 - Makar (alternatives were Glass, Mittelstadt IIRC)
2019 - Byram (alternatives were Turcotte, Cozens, Zegras IIRC)

We could've easily ended up with a vastly different team. I think Rantanen and Jost were pretty consensus, but Makar was seen as a gamble and Byram/Turcotte was close to a coin toss.
 
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Richard88

John 3:16
Jun 29, 2019
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Can we take a moment to appreciate Sakic + our scouting department for nailing our high picks? Even though it's a huge luxury to pick top 10 in 4 out of the 6 recent drafts, they have pretty much nailed each pick.

2015 - Rantanen (alternatives at the time were Meier, Crouse, Barzal IIRC).
2016 - Jost (didn't develop as expected and people will point to McAvoy, but this draft was garbage)
2017 - Makar (alternatives were Glass, Mittelstadt IIRC)
2019 - Byram (alternatives were Turcotte, Cozens, Zegras IIRC)

We could've easily ended up with a vastly different team. I think Rantanen and Jost were pretty consensus, but Makar was seen as a gamble and Byram/Turcotte was close to a coin toss.
I agree that they've done a great job with high picks overall. Newhook looks like another successful pick, though Kaut could yet go either way.

Top picks aside, I'd like to see them have success with picks outside the top 20 before lavishing the scouting department with too much praise. The picks below are all our picks between the late 1st and 3rd rounds, and if Colorado are going to have any chance of extending their cup window beyond the Mackinnon raise they'll need a few of these picks to be hits.

2015 - Greer, Meloche, Beaudin
2016 - Morrison, Anderson
2017 - Timmins
2018 - Annunen, Ranta
2019 - Helleson, Stienburg, Beaucage
2020 - Barron, Foudy

The 2015 and 2016 classes above are already complete write-offs. There are some signs that the drafting has been better since 2017 though, given that Timmins is playing at the NHL level now (or at least learning to); Annunen had a great WJC and 1st pro season (less so since); Ranta is 2nd in NCAA goalscoring; Helleson was Team USA's shutdown rock and has had a great start at BC; Beaucage is 3rd in goals in the QMJHL; Barron is having a better D+1 season that his injury-riddled draft year; and Foudy is looking lively in the AHL already. Until some of these guys actually do fully graduate to the NHL level though the doubts about the Avs scouting and development will persist.
 

PAZ

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I agree that they've done a great job with high picks overall. Newhook looks like another successful pick, though Kaut could yet go either way.

Top picks aside, I'd like to see them have success with picks outside the top 20 before lavishing the scouting department with too much praise. The picks below are all our picks between the late 1st and 3rd rounds, and if Colorado are going to have any chance of extending their cup window beyond the Mackinnon raise they'll need a few of these picks to be hits.

2015 - Greer, Meloche, Beaudin
2016 - Morrison, Anderson
2017 - Timmins
2018 - Annunen, Ranta
2019 - Helleson, Stienburg, Beaucage
2020 - Barron, Foudy

The 2015 and 2016 classes above are already complete write-offs. There are some signs that the drafting has been better since 2017 though, given that Timmins is playing at the NHL level now (or at least learning to); Annunen had a great WJC and 1st pro season (less so since); Ranta is 2nd in NCAA goalscoring; Helleson was Team USA's shutdown rock and has had a great start at BC; Beaucage is 3rd in goals in the QMJHL; Barron is having a better D+1 season that his injury-riddled draft year; and Foudy is looking lively in the AHL already. Until some of these guys actually do fully graduate to the NHL level though the doubts about the Avs scouting and development will persist.

Oh I agree, that's why I specifically narrowed it down to the top 10 picks. There is still plenty of work to do after the 1st round, but they've been trending in the right direction for awhile now - albeit I agree it doesn't matter until those prospects prove themselves at the NHL level. I'm not quite sure where it falls short, because between our pro scouts and our success in the first rounds there is obviously people in the organization that have an eye for talent.

I wonder if it's just not enough resources (i.e. scouts) or whether it's more of a systemic issue.
 
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Foppa2118

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Can we take a moment to appreciate Sakic + our scouting department for nailing our high picks? Even though it's a huge luxury to pick top 10 in 4 out of the 6 recent drafts, they have pretty much nailed each pick.

2015 - Rantanen (alternatives at the time were Meier, Crouse, Barzal IIRC).
2016 - Jost (didn't develop as expected and people will point to McAvoy, but this draft was garbage)
2017 - Makar (alternatives were Glass, Mittelstadt IIRC)
2019 - Byram (alternatives were Turcotte, Cozens, Zegras IIRC)

We could've easily ended up with a vastly different team. I think Rantanen and Jost were pretty consensus, but Makar was seen as a gamble and Byram/Turcotte was close to a coin toss.

Yeah they made the right choice in pretty much all of those years, except the Jost year.

And nobody was really pushing for McAvoy at the draft. They wanted Chychrun, who would have been a better pick, but hasn't really developed as hoped either. And like you say that draft was pretty trash after Jost, for forwards especially.

The jury is still out on Byram vs Zegras, but given how valuable defenseman are, and how good Bo is, I like that pick as of right now.
 

Nihiliste

Registered User
Feb 8, 2010
11,536
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Can we take a moment to appreciate Sakic + our scouting department for nailing our high picks? Even though it's a huge luxury to pick top 10 in 4 out of the 6 recent drafts, they have pretty much nailed each pick.

2015 - Rantanen (alternatives at the time were Meier, Crouse, Barzal IIRC).
2016 - Jost (didn't develop as expected and people will point to McAvoy, but this draft was garbage)
2017 - Makar (alternatives were Glass, Mittelstadt IIRC)
2019 - Byram (alternatives were Turcotte, Cozens, Zegras IIRC)

We could've easily ended up with a vastly different team. I think Rantanen and Jost were pretty consensus, but Makar was seen as a gamble and Byram/Turcotte was close to a coin toss.

Jost wasn’t a great pick and wouldn’t have gone wrong with Barzal or probably Zegras, but yeah I was worried they wouldn’t pick Mikko with their previous aversion to picking Europeans in recent times. Kaut hasn’t had a chance really but their handling of him has me worried. A lot better than previous years with Bleackley, Siemens, Hishon.

Gotta get some players later in the draft though
 

Foppa2118

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Oct 3, 2003
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Think the Avs added a couple guys to the staff this year. I don't recall seeing their names.

David Wood - Hockey Analyst
Mitch Sakic - Assistant Video Scout (Joe's son)
 

Richard88

John 3:16
Jun 29, 2019
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Think the Avs added a couple guys to the staff this year. I don't recall seeing their names.

David Wood - Hockey Analyst
Mitch Sakic - Assistant Video Scout (Joe's son)
Good to see that organisational nepotism is still as strong as ever!
 

Foppa2118

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Oct 3, 2003
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Good to see that organisational nepotism is still as strong as ever!

I was gonna suggest something similar, but then I remembered Mitchell is 25 years old, and might just need a job during the pandemic. Maybe Joe just wants to make sure he doesn't sit on the couch all day. :laugh:
 
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Richard88

John 3:16
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Yeah, definitely not giving him a 5 for this season.
Sakic's two big moves in the offseason prior to this season have both been successes thus far. Saad is pacing for 32 goals and 53 points, and Toews has been 1st pairing quality and is pacing for 47 points.

Cap constraints meant that we were always going to have to wait until the deadline to fix the 3C issue, and even more so with injuries putting strain on the cap, so the jury is still out on that particular issue.

The one glaring shortcoming that I do think Sakic made a mistake with is not addressing the 3G position when he had the chance in the offseason and again when decent goalies were available on waivers.
 
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Foppa2118

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The one glaring shortcoming that I do think Sakic made a mistake with is not addressing the 3G position when he had the chance in the offseason and again when decent goalies were available on waivers.

I like everything else Joe has done, but this might be enough not to give him a 5 this year. Not addressing the 3G issue was an obvious mistake at the time. He was hoping not to get unlucky basically by waiting. Which isn't a great strategy, especially with the injury history of both goaltenders.

They've been without their #2 almost half the season now and there still hasn't been a goaltender addition. And they're in a very tight race just to make the playoffs, in part because of some lost games due to goaltending.

So he's basically hoping not to get unlucky again, or more accurately IMO, hoping to get lucky this doesn't bite them in the ass by losing too many points playing Miska, or either burning out Grubauer before the playoffs, or contributing to another Grubauer groin injury by overplaying him.

I say hoping to get lucky at this point instead of hoping not to get unlucky, because it seems like a real risk for one of those scenarios to happen if they don't bring in another NHL capable goaltender soon.
 
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Long term, continuing to bet on Compher and Jost as the 2C and 3C of this team was a mistake. Obviously giving Compher that extension is quite possibly Sakic’s biggest blunder post-2017. I get why he did it, but this is one instance where he didn’t side with analytics and that was the wrong call in this case.

Short term, I get that there’s a flat cap and I don’t for a moment begrudge the two moves Joe did make, but there were three main concerns that were exposed following that Dallas series, and unfortunately he addressed none of them. He did not get a viable third goalie option, he did not get a third line center, and he did not fire Ray Bennett. I’m willing to bet he regrets his inaction on the first two, and he most certainly will on the third soon enough.

We can make all the excuses we want for him (and I did as well) but the difference between a good and a great GM is finding a way no matter what the circumstances. Sure hope he’s got an ace up his sleeve this year because this season feels like it’s hanging by a thread.
 
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Long term, continuing to bet on Compher and Jost as the 2C and 3C of this team was a mistake. Obviously giving Compher that extension is quite possibly Sakic’s biggest blunder post-2017. I get why he did it, but this is one instance where he didn’t side with analytics and that was the wrong call in this case.

Short term, I get that there’s a flat cap and I don’t for a moment begrudge the two moves Joe did make, but there were three main concerns that were exposed following that Dallas series, and unfortunately he addressed none of them. He did not get a viable third goalie option, he did not get a third line center, and he did not fire Ray Bennett. I’m willing to bet he regrets his inaction on the first two, and he most certainly will on the third soon enough.

We can make all the excuses we want for him (and I did as well) but the difference between a good and a great GM is finding a way no matter what the circumstances. Sure hope he’s got an ace up his sleeve this year because this season feels like it’s hanging by a thread.

Yep, still a 4, and by definition should be a 3 for me if the goalie situation isn't solved soon. Or the 3C isn't fixed by the TDL. I can lean on the cap crunch a little for the 3C issue. Especially since Saad and Toews are such huge additions. He used the cap differently, but you gotta take what's given.

Still can go to a 5 if he figures those out for the post season, and either locks down the center depth, or finds a way to keep or replace Saad despite the cap situation.
 

nammerus

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Anyone else wanna give him a 4 or 5? Going to cost this team a chance at a cup this year with the massive hole at 3C and goaltending situation (obviously the latter much more important).
 

Richard88

John 3:16
Jun 29, 2019
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Anyone else wanna give him a 4 or 5? Going to cost this team a chance at a cup this year with the massive hole at 3C and goaltending situation (obviously the latter much more important).
The goalie situation needs to get fixed asap and is a blot on Sakic (should have picked up Nedeljkovic on waivers...), but other than that it's hard to be too critical.

The team has weathered a tonne of injuries and a two-week break that disrupted their season when they were finally on a roll, and are currently just 3 points off the division lead. They're 1st in the league in xG and xGA, and are flat out dominant in the league-wide Corsi stats (10 of the top 20 are Avs, including 7 of the top 8).

Given the cap situation 3C was always going to be something they addressed at the deadline, so the jury is still out on that. At the start of the season the deadline capspace was projected to be over $8m leaving a tonne of flexibility to add a good player or two, but the injuries have put a spanner in the works. Unless Johnson is ruled out until the end of the regular season Sakic is going to have to get creative in how he addresses the 3C spot, as it might be a case of money-in, money-out.
 
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expatriatedtexan

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The goalie situation needs to get fixed asap and is a blot on Sakic (should have picked up Nedeljkovic on waivers...), but other than that it's hard to be too critical.

The team has weathered a tonne of injuries and a two-week break that disrupted their season when they were finally on a roll, and are currently just 3 points off the division lead. They're 1st in the league in xG and xGA, and are flat out dominant in the league-wide Corsi stats (10 of the top 20 are Avs, including 7 of the top 8).

Given the cap situation 3C was always going to be something they addressed at the deadline, so the jury is still out on that. At the start of the season the deadline capspace was projected to be over $8m leaving a tonne of flexibility to add a good player or two, but the injuries have put a spanner in the works. Unless Johnson is ruled out until the end of the regular season Sakic is going to have to get creative in how he addresses the 3C spot, as it might be a case of money-in, money-out.
I'm not sure I would say it is a blot or blight on Sakic's tenure yet. The Avs are still holding strong despite Grubs having to pick up the majority of the load. This might be just in fact what Grubs needs to solidify his starting role in the NHL. He's standing out and rising the ranks.

We might need better goaltending in the future, but at this point, it's not a pressing of a need as a solid third-line center. That being said, the last 3 or 4 games, has led me to believe that Jost is capable as a passable third line center. The guy flat out hustles and I haven't given him enough credit for that. Nichuskin was severly hampered with JT Compher as his center. He looks much more dangerous with Jost centering him. I think that's what we need form the third line center. One that is dangerous on their own, but knows how to get the most out of their wings. Compher has never been that type of center. Jost is. I can't believe I'm saying this, but Jost needs to be protected above Compher.
 

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