Joe Sakic - Record as Colorado Avalanche GM - Part III (Updates in First Post)

[Foppa2118]

They are still trading for third goaltenders.

It’s not just Sakic vs. Roy but there’s also the factor of the old school Quebec guys like Brad Smith’s influence as the head pro scout (let’s just call him what he really is director of player personnel) and then Billington’s influence as the GM of the AHL his priority is to win there so that also colors decisions.

Sakic has been able to stick to a more unified vision since Roy’s departure. I think they had similar ideas but a lot different thoughts on executing them.

Speaking of, Sakic was fairly candid in this interview covering pretty much all parts of his career and he does go into the differences with Roy a bit.

These quotes below stand out to me. This kind of confirms my theory as to why Roy left as well.

He wanted Joe to make certain moves to make the team better (primarily with the defense) but Joe was still dragging his feet a little. The moves he did make with ROR for Z and Compher etc, made them younger and pushed their competitive window further back.

When Sakic made more stop gap moves by adding Wiercioch, Colborne, and Tyutin the next off season instead of more significant moves to improve the team, it was obvious they were gonna suck again, and Roy probably would have been let go after another losing season.

So as a Hall of Famer and arguably the best goaltender of all time, he decided to step down on his own terms, rather than be embarrassed by another losing season, when he didn't have any control over improving the team.


"We might not have agreed on everything personnel-wise, but I kind of felt at that point we needed a rebuild."

"That year he retired, we knew we weren't going to be very good and we had to start to try and rebuild, from my point of view."

 

[Murzu]

I'm very close to changing my vote from four to five.

 

[Avs_19]

These quotes below stand out to me. This kind of confirms my theory as to why Roy left as well.

He wanted Joe to make certain moves to make the team better (primarily with the defense) but Joe was still dragging his feet a little. The moves he did make with ROR for Z and Compher etc, made them younger and pushed their competitive window further back.

When Sakic made more stop gap moves by adding Wiercioch, Colborne, and Tyutin the next off season instead of more significant moves to improve the team, it was obvious they were gonna suck again, and Roy probably would have been let go after another losing season.

So as a Hall of Famer and arguably the best goaltender of all time, he decided to step down on his own terms, rather than be embarrassed by another losing season, when he didn't have any control over improving the team.


"We might not have agreed on everything personnel-wise, but I kind of felt at that point we needed a rebuild."

"That year he retired, we knew we weren't going to be very good and we had to start to try and rebuild, from my point of view."

Quit. He quit on the team in mid-August.

 

[Foppa2118]

Quit. He quit on the team in mid-August.

By that definition you're always quitting when you step down. The timing doesn't make it so.

Personally I don't blame him. Why would arguably the best goaltender of all time want to come back and tarnish his reputation further to coach another losing season, when the GM is sitting on his hands and won't trade Duchene for defensive help, and lets ROR go to start another rebuild?

He wasn't getting brought back after another losing season, so why not just leave on his terms? The timing wasn't great, but it's overblown how much that handcuffed Bednar when coaches routinely get brought in mid season with even less time to plan.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

This is how I look at Sakic losing the ROR trade. It was all meant to be.

 

[Foppa2118]

This is how I look at Sakic losing the ROR trade. It was all meant to be.

Sakic got shanked by his own spear in the ROR trade, but Pierre Dorion said, "Not today" so he flew through the sky with Girard and Byram to end the dark winter and save the Avalanche organization?

 

[Bonzai12]

Sakic's done pretty good. I feel like nowadays any successful GM pretty much goes through the cycle of:

1) Blow everything up, draft well
2) Get good vets that complement the kids as they have presumably gotten better
3) Get over the top with a Stanley Cup
4) Manage team well enough to compete at high level 3-4 years
5) Know when to blow everything up again and start at #1

I feel like Joe's at step 3.......

 

[MonsterMack]

So as a Hall of Famer and arguably the best goaltender of all time, he decided to step down on his own terms, rather than be embarrassed by another losing season, when he didn't have any control over improving the team.

Roy "stepping down" when he did was far more embarrassing than coaching another losing season.

 

[Foppa2118]

Roy "stepping down" when he did was far more embarrassing than coaching another losing season.

Meh. I honestly think it was blown out of proportion.

Bednar got a lot more prep time than coaches hired mid season. The losing season got us Makar. The Avs got better year by year and they're now the favorite to win the Cup in a lot of people's eyes.

Most people say it would have been fine if he had stepped down right after the season, but I honestly don't see a meaningful difference.

 

[Metallo]

By that definition you're always quitting when you step down. The timing doesn't make it so.

Personally I don't blame him. Why would arguably the best goaltender of all time want to come back and tarnish his reputation further to coach another losing season, when the GM is sitting on his hands and won't trade Duchene for defensive help, and lets ROR go to start another rebuild?

He wasn't getting brought back after another losing season, so why not just leave on his terms? The timing wasn't great, but it's overblown how much that handcuffed Bednar when coaches routinely get brought in mid season with even less time to plan.

I don’t think it would have tarnished Roy’s reputation if he went along with the rebuilt. I’m pretty sure Joe had his back. He mostly quit because things were not done his way.

 

[Foppa2118]

I don’t think it would have tarnished Roy’s reputation if he went along with the rebuilt. I’m pretty sure Joe had his back. He mostly quit because things were not done his way.

His reputation wouldn't have been completely tarnished, but he was already the lone scapegoat for not making a bad roster with a terrible blueline a regular playoff team.

When Sakic's off season additions were Wiercioch, Colborne, and Tyutin, and he admits they knew they were gonna be bad that year, there's no reason an all time great like Roy should have been expected to carry on being the scapegoat for another year.

Public pressure wouldn't have allowed Sakic to bring him back after another losing year, so why go through that experience again just to end up with the same result?

 

[ThatAvsGamer]

Changed my vote from a 4 to a 5. The Only two things i have against him. The O'reilly trade and his drafting. He's added a few key pieces with trades so it makes up for the bad drafting.

 

[ThatAvsGamer]

Sakic's done pretty good. I feel like nowadays any successful GM pretty much goes through the cycle of:

1) Blow everything up, draft well
2) Get good vets that complement the kids as they have presumably gotten better
3) Get over the top with a Stanley Cup
4) Manage team well enough to compete at high level 3-4 years
5) Know when to blow everything up again and start at #1

I feel like Joe's at step 3.......

The veteran experiment was awful iginla, Stuart, Beauchemin. I'm sorry but no lol. I think we've gotten better since we got younger

 

[Pokecheque]

Sakic learned some valuable lessons from the disaster of 2016-17:
1. Never let your team get too slow.
2. Defensive forwards, while not the most important players, play a vital role.

He's put premiums on both things ever since (almost to a fault), and the team has benefited as a result.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Is it just me or Joe Sakic is Harold Loyd sosie?
Sakic is Loyd with chinese eyes and a bigger chin.
All the rest is the same, same cheek bone, same skull, same nose and same hair.
View media item 8295

 

[MarkT]

Is it just me or Joe Sakic is Harold Loyd sosie?
Sakic is Loyd with chinese eyes and a bigger chin.
All the rest is the same, same cheek bone, same skull, same nose and same hair.
View media item 8295

They also both suffered unfortunate hand injuries.

 

[SD Avs Fan]

Joe Sakic is my favorite athlete of all time in any sport and of any level. He is quickly trying to follow that up as my favorite GM of all time. Damn what else can Joe do to appease Avs fans. Not a heck of a whole lot.

 

[MarkT]

Joe Sakic is my favorite athlete of all time in any sport and of any level. He is quickly trying to follow that up as my favorite GM of all time. Damn what else can Joe do to appease Avs fans. Not a heck of a whole lot.

What if... he showed up one day and his hair was well-groomed?

 

[AnimalMother73]

I get the sense that his quiet, humble approach mixed with a strong desire to win is why they have been so successful. I suspect he truly treats others on his leadership team as equals allowing the best ideas to win out regardless of who they come from in the room (something that does not appear to happen with the Broncos w Elway around). In the opening lines of Lebrun’s recent article Sakic spent a good amount of time giving all the credit to everyone around him in the org for their success rather than talk about himself- truly a class act and my favorite athlete of all time.

 

[AnimalMother73]

Also kudos to Kroenke for seeing his potential and having the patience to let him work through the growing GM pains. I do think they gotta do right by Chris McFarland soon. He’s likely to be snatched up if not promoted to GM either this year or next. Would love to see Joe in a Prez role and CM moved up so we can keep everyone.

 

[PAZ]

Also kudos to Kroenke for seeing his potential and having the patience to let him work through the growing GM pains. I do think they gotta do right by Chris McFarland soon. He’s likely to be snatched up if not promoted to GM either this year or next. Would love to see Joe in a Prez role and CM moved up so we can keep everyone.

Hard pass on that one.

I like McFarland, but that sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. That would be another Roy/Sakic debacle waiting to happen all over again. Who get's the final say? If it's Sakic, than McFarland is just a mouthpiece and it would only be a matter of time before shit hits the fan. If it's McFarland, then Sakic is 'promoted' to a lesser role and won't have as much of an impact on trades/signings/etc.

 

[Foppa2118]

Hard pass on that one.

I like McFarland, but that sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. That would be another Roy/Sakic debacle waiting to happen all over again. Who get's the final say? If it's Sakic, than McFarland is just a mouthpiece and it would only be a matter of time before shit hits the fan. If it's McFarland, then Sakic is 'promoted' to a lesser role and won't have as much of an impact on trades/signings/etc.

If they do end up going with MacFarand as GM I doubt there would be much issue.

They've worked together as GM and AGM for five years now. He knows his preferences and philosophies. If Joe was worried about them being on different pages, he probably wouldn't promote him.

 

[PAZ]

If they do end up going with MacFarand as GM I doubt there would be much issue.

They've worked together as GM and AGM for five years now. He knows his preferences and philosophies. If Joe was worried about them being on different pages, he probably wouldn't promote him.

GM and AGM there is a clear chain of command, even if they have similar preferences and philosophies there will still be plenty of decisions that Sakic will have the final say on and McFarland respects that, hence him being here for so long. GM and President is where decision making would get murky.

IMO it only makes sense if Sakic wants to take a step back and be less involved.

 

[22FUTON9]

Not really about sakic as GM but wolski gives a pretty good insight of Sakic when he was a player. Around the one hour mark.

 

[Nihiliste]

Also kudos to Kroenke for seeing his potential and having the patience to let him work through the growing GM pains. I do think they gotta do right by Chris McFarland soon. He’s likely to be snatched up if not promoted to GM either this year or next. Would love to see Joe in a Prez role and CM moved up so we can keep everyone.

Title is only so important. Just pay the guy like a GM and keep letting him have the big input in decision making that he seems to already