Joe Sakic - Record as Colorado Avalanche GM - Part II (Updates in First Post)

Discussion in 'Colorado Avalanche' started by Waingro, Oct 13, 2016.

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  1. TruePowerSlave

    TruePowerSlave Registered User

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    So you really think the best forward Sakic could have traded/signed this summer was Matt Calvert? If not, then there were better options.
     
  2. PAZ

    PAZ .

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    For a contract that wouldn't become a hindrance in the future? Nope.

    If you think there were other realistic options this summer, feel free to point them out.
     
  3. 18007

    18007 Sakic Lover

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    While I do think Calvert’s 3.75 is quite a bit much, I’m not quite as down on his usefulness as some. I’m not saying Joe is infallible, here, but it does feel as though he has gotten us to the next level after years of disappointment. I’m willing to hold the pitchforks for a bit and give him some credit.

    It doesn’t look like his gamble on waiting for the kids to develop was too far off here, either, they seem to be coming along well.

    Also, there are so many ifs and buts about trades. It takes two, maybe three parties to tango. Skinner looks to have been off the table because of personal preference. That leaves maybe Chucky and ROR. Maybe Sakic didn’t want to bring back someone who didn’t want to be here earlier in ROR or didn’t want to bring back a piece of an old losing culture? Maybe Chucky could have been had, but did we even have the pieces Montreal was looking for or what if they anted someone Sakic didn’t want to part with? The only free agent I would have taken is Stats and by all accounts he wanted to go to LV.

    Who knows, maybe he really just wanted to let the kids develop? But to blame Sakic for something he might or might not have been able to do seems fruitless to me.
     
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  4. TruePowerSlave

    TruePowerSlave Registered User

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    Lets be honest here. Not a single person on this board has any idea who could have been signed or whether this management group wants to trade for a certain player. Therefore, its kinda pointless to ask for "realistic" options.

    Just as an example Hoffman was shopped. He would be the Avs 4th best forward right now and would have cost almost nothing. Great move from Florida and a bad look for other GMs. I doubt the Avs had any interest but they should have.

    There were other examples as well just look up what happened in the summer. That being said, I don't think the Avs were all that serious about adding secondary scoring tbh. I get the feeling that management wanted to see whether this team was for real, unlike the 2013-14 Avs, before making any big moves.
     
  5. PAZ

    PAZ .

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    We went from having a team with a dysfunctional locker room and being the worst team in the league to having a bounce back season largely due to Mackinnon. With all the locker room antics and rumours that surrounded Hoffman, i'm happy we didn't try for him, regardless of what type of player he is. In hindsight of how this season has started - sure Hoffman would have been a nice add. But during the controversy it could have blown up in our face.

    Can you be more specific about this summer? Skinner was only willing to waive his NMC to Buffalo or Toronto. ROR was another question mark for how he would affect the locker room and whether Buffalo would trade him back to us (the optics would have looked horrible for them). Besides that, there were plenty of horrible signings in potential fixes like Bozak, JVR, Neal, etc.
     
  6. TruePowerSlave

    TruePowerSlave Registered User

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    I see this gets repeated a lot but there is only 5 players on this team who played with ROR, plus he did not seem to have have any issues with the players only the management. If bringing in a Landeskog level player is going to break the locker room then there is serious issues with the team. Its far more likely that Sakic just does not want anything to do with ROR even if he would be the perfect addition to the team.

    As to the Sabres, I doubt they would have cared at all, its not even the same GM.
     
  7. GoNordiquesGo

    GoNordiquesGo Registered User

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    That's a real weird comparaison... a game of Poker and the future of the Avs... you can go and gamble the future of the franchise to prove you have balls. I will just sit here patiently and let my wife fidget with mine... then I'll see what the Senators 1st rounder will be in 6 short months, while the Avs perform admirably well, and I will decide what's the best course of action afterward, with proper information... but we a lack of balls...
     
  8. CobraAcesS

    CobraAcesS De Opresso Liber

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    Did you not know what you were referencing?
     
  9. GoNordiquesGo

    GoNordiquesGo Registered User

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    Have you never realized that the expression "to hold an Ace" could be used in a context that is not a game of Poker?
     
  10. CobraAcesS

    CobraAcesS De Opresso Liber

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  11. Piestany88

    Piestany88 Registered User

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  12. Pokecheque

    Pokecheque armoredheadspace Sponsor

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    Honestly I don't get the criticism, especially when some magical 2nd-line center keeps getting thrown out there and any time someone asks for specifics we're met with the blanket statement "They're always available." That's disingenuous at best. And I'm willing to be that even if that were true most people in the "We should've gotten a 2C" camp would've blanched at what it would've taken to get one. Jost/Kerfoot and a 1st wouldn't have been enough.

    Avs are currently sitting 4th-best in the league, running a power play that is, at the moment, the best power play in terms of % OF ALL TIME, the 2nd-best goal differential in the league, and sport the best line in hockey. In addition, their best prospect is almost singlehandedly turning a downtrodden NCAA program into the best in the nation, and we have yet to see what the TWO first-rounders they have in a deep, talent-laden draft, will yield. I'm not even getting into what guys like Shane Bowers could possibly do as early as next season.

    NEXT offseason will be the time to make that sort of move. Plenty of cap space, some interim guys will be coming off the books (and hopefully not retained), and they'll have a better idea who is in the pipeline. I don't think people need to get greedy, this team is not even two years removed from the worst season of the modern NHL era. Let's just enjoy what's going on and trust the process.

    And the ROR argument is just plain nonsense. He's. Not. Coming. Back. Enough already.
     
  13. CobraAcesS

    CobraAcesS De Opresso Liber

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    I know for me personally I've argued that it may have been possible to bring in a top six forward, and most of the discussion me and CGF have been a part of involves next off-season or looking at how it might be done during the season. Which I've admitted many times is extremely difficult.

    This post is quite the broad stroke, just like pro Barrie people blaming the entire group for wanting to trade Barrie because Makar is coming, and the Barrie haters (lol) taking shots at people for calling Barrie a #1D.

    I really don't understand why you don't just direct quote the things you have a problem with instead of taking a shotgun approach to a group of people. ****ing **** irritates the hell out of me. Do people think if they don't quote anyone they don't need to be accountable, or am I the fish latching on to the troll chum you just threw into the water?
     
  14. GoNordiquesGo

    GoNordiquesGo Registered User

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    Just a few posts back, I stated that Sakic should wait until next off season, and you responded to that post by saying, and I QUOTE"not being aggressive, and let that dude with 7, duce **** your world up because he had balls and you left them at home in your wife's cold clutches." END QUOTE.

    So unless I misunderstood something, the bold part up there is BS...
     
  15. 18007

    18007 Sakic Lover

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    Yeah, I agree with you and I'm kind of tired of arguing this point. There are many ways to skin a cat and each of us would probably do it differently. It's hard to argue that Joe is not doing a good job here, though. I don't think this year is fluke and think our success is sustainable. The but, but, but's that get thrown around on HF are ridiculous sometimes.
     
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  16. Pokecheque

    Pokecheque armoredheadspace Sponsor

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    To be fair I direct-quote people all the time, but there are times there's an ongoing sort of trend I sense that I want to address where I don't.

    I'm not saying the people who say Sakic should've done more in the offseason to address scoring depth are wrong, I just don't like one of the arguments being presented.

    I'll be honest, I'm just too lazy to go back and do the multi-quote thing, and that's not changing anytime soon. I see your point but I don't think I'm addressing some sort of straw-man out there, what I've addressed is a legit argument. I'll try to be better I suppose but not promising anything.
     
  17. CobraAcesS

    CobraAcesS De Opresso Liber

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    I'm not trying to police your posts, but you know how it is around here. We're honest about being irritated by something. Sometimes it seems like about 10% of something you post applies to something I've been involved in, but I don't enjoy being lumped into a bunch of stuff I consider to the level of hyperbole. Which there is always an element of on either side of any major argument we have here.

    I'll take full responsibility for not taking the discussion seriously using that comment, but at this point I really don't feel like going back and fourth on the subject. I think you're not aware of other discussions that have been had on the topic which would clarify what I'm talking about, and it's been going on for a while. So again I don't really feel like rehashing the subject to that level of detail.

    I do wish something could be found during the season, but have also acknowledged in the past that it's a difficult ask. Especially because I don't advocate for a short term fix that involves an older player. So yes I want them to be aggressive, but not stupid about it.

    If you want to understand more detail regarding what I'm talking about @cgf and other posters kind of took over this thread on the main board regarding Zibby. There is a lot of detail there, and I agree with pretty much everything CGF says. Proposal: - Zibanejad to the Avs
     
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  18. flyfysher

    flyfysher Registered User

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    I'm with you 100% Poke but I must admit the allure of a two way scoring 2C is mighty appealing.

    That said, I don't want ROR back and I want Bednar to try the Jost-Kerfoot-Compher line for a couple of weeks.
     
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  19. GoNordiquesGo

    GoNordiquesGo Registered User

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    Its all good, no need for back and forth, got carried away a little... Long day, sorry if I was a bit abrupt... ;)
     
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  20. Foppa2118

    Foppa2118 Registered User

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    Sakic is still thinking long term. Next summers UFA market will likely be better than last years, and he also has a good shot at getting a top center or winger in the draft with Ottawa's pick.

    Annoying that we're still saying it almost a decade into their first rebuild attempt, but we'll probably have to be patient for one more year, before we start to see the big picture come together.
     
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  21. Iracundia

    Iracundia Registered User

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    The panic traders are not going to accept this at all.:sarcasm:
     
  22. 18007

    18007 Sakic Lover

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    It is annoying, but really this is Sakic's first crack at it if you discount the Roy years. In that we can take a lot of solace.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  23. Foppa2118

    Foppa2118 Registered User

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    Those were still the Sakic years. He was the GM.

    Personally I can understand some of the frustration, since I know many of them watched the Avs in their glory years and have had to be patient like I have for nearly a decade to see them return to a competitive level.
     
  24. cgf

    cgf FireBednarsSuccessor

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    Who in next summer's UFA market fits the bill as a cup caliber 1b C other than Duchene? And if we're banking on the draft to solve that spot for us; then who other than Hughes will be ready to fill that role in their draft+1 (or even draft+2) -season? If the answer is none & the ottawa pick doesn't land us Hughes, then we're talking about not being able to contend until MacK's sweetheart deal is almost over and we'll have to start spending over 30M just to our top line...

    This why thinking long term is great & I wish our organization had done more of that a decade ago when Joe was still playing; but things change when your cup window opens like ours has. Now Joe is going to need to show some aggressiveness to capitalize on our cup window unless the hockey gods decide to give us Hughes to troll leafs fans.
     
  25. Foppa2118

    Foppa2118 Registered User

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    You might be getting him confused with someone else. Calvert got $2.85M x 3. Not great but $3.75M would be brutal.
     
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