Joe Sakic - Record as Colorado Avalanche GM - Part II (Updates in First Post)

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ABasin

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Lol Is he not a good gm in your opinion

Are you asking me this question? Because I don’t recall saying Sakic is a bad GM. (When you ask a question, it helps if you quote the post to which you are responding. It also helps to add a question mark.)

In my opinion, I think Sakic is (now) making more good decisions. For a few years there, he was making more poor decisions. It’s certainly a good trend.

But I don’t wish to lose sight of the big picture. The Avs are still a playoff bubble-type team, with little depth, relying very (veryveryvery) much on the development of quite a few young players and prospects. Their development is the key to this whole thing.

I generally agree with Sakic’s execution over the past couple of years. But if these prospects don’t develop well, and the team stays mired in mediocrity as a result, Sakic will ultimately be judged harshly, I think.
 

Auston mcdavid

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That’s true I just hope some of them develop Bowers looks like a steal right now though so then who do u think are the top 5 gms right now
 

Pokecheque

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That’s true I just hope some of them develop Bowers looks like a steal right now though so then who do u think are the top 5 gms right now

You didn't ask me but I love submitting unsolicited opinions...

My personal list:
1. David Poile
2. Steve Yzerman
3. Kevin Cheveldayoff
4. Jim Rutherford
5. George McPhee

And yes, I realize there's a grand total of two Cups there, both won by the same guy. But I think those are the top guys right now. I think a couple, like Sakic and Kyle Dubas, could climb into that list, but I'm not ready to do that quite yet.

My bottom five:
31. Pierre Dorion
30. Jim Benning
29. Peter Chiarelli
28. Marc Bergevin
27. Bob Murray

And, go figure, there's a Cup winner here.

Been toying around with a blog post that might flesh this out a bit more, we'll see.
 

Auston mcdavid

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I mean for me I would put Steve Yzerman number one his drafting is better than poile I mean his list is incredible point Palat kutcherov Cirelli vasilevsky Dotchin namestilov and prospects that could be ready right now Joseph Volkov Stephens Katchouk Colton Raddysh and more and they still boast a top 3 prospect system it’s incredible
and I think he will win a cup before poile espechially if they get karlsson I just hope they don’t give up sergachev or point
Where would Kekalainen rank on your list for Columbus
 

Pokecheque

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I mean for me I would put Steve Yzerman number one his drafting is better than poile I mean his list is incredible point Palat kutcherov Cirelli vasilevsky Dotchin namestilov and prospects that could be ready right now Joseph Volkov Stephens Katchouk Colton Raddysh and more and they still boast a top 3 prospect system it’s incredible
and I think he will win a cup before poile espechially if they get karlsson I just hope they don’t give up sergachev or point
Where would Kekalainen rank on your list for Columbus

Good question. I think he's up there, but not certain exactly where.

I only put Poile at the very top because IMO he did it from scratch, built that franchise up from the very beginning. Stevie Y had a huge mess to clean up to be sure, but I also think he had a couple building blocks to go off of as well. I also give him some dings for what I think has been some bad cap management, albeit minor ones.
 

Pokecheque

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Who do u think will win a cup first poile or Yzerman

Yeesh...I'm guessing Yzerman, but honestly the Caps win just reminded me how much plain dumb luck plays into the proceedings. Not meaning to sell the Cup champs short--they earned it 100%--but for them to win it all after actually having to "downsize" from a President's Trophy-winning roster is a weird, yet remarkable accomplishment.
 

S E P H

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You didn't ask me but I love submitting unsolicited opinions...

My personal list:
1. David Poile
2. Steve Yzerman
3. Kevin Cheveldayoff
4. Jim Rutherford
5. George McPhee

And yes, I realize there's a grand total of two Cups there, both won by the same guy. But I think those are the top guys right now. I think a couple, like Sakic and Kyle Dubas, could climb into that list, but I'm not ready to do that quite yet.

My bottom five:
31. Pierre Dorion
30. Jim Benning
29. Peter Chiarelli
28. Marc Bergevin
27. Bob Murray
Not sure the top 3 should be ones that have zero Cup wins between them. Also not sure that Cheveldayoff is a good general manager, he tended to not make any moves, suck, get fortunate in the lottery, and accumulate decently high draft picks during his entire tenure.

Poile, Bowman (hate to say it), "Mob Boss" Lamoriello, Yzerman, and MacLellan are probably the best GM's in the league. The worst for me would be Bob Murray, Don Waddell (until otherwise noted), Holland, Bergevin, Armstrong, and Benning (GM's that probably will be fired or step down within the next 1-3 seasons).

McPhee gets way too much hate, but his trade valuation meter is quite wonky and wrong - he does other things well though. Rutherford used to be a good GM, but he totally ****ed up the Hurricanes. There were rumours he left the organization to retire just to say **** you to Canes and joy the easiest Stanley Cup organization in the league. Penguins would still win a Cup even if Milbury was in charge of the entire club. Rutherford instead of knowing that the Hurricanes needed a retool/rebuild, he decided to waste entire assets and draft picks on useless junk to make them into a revolving door of mediocrity as Giguere did to us after the salary cup influx.
 

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Urinating Tree's Free Agency review. All he really says about the Avs is "Sakic I'd bitch at you, but you fleeced Ottawa into oblivion, so I'll give you a pass."


 

Auston mcdavid

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I think now with Tolvanen and Hartman as younger pieces they could win it now and they have a future starter in Saros they could win it this year and they have the best defence in the league they could definitely win the cup but do you think Johansen is a number one centre?
 

Piestany88

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I think now with Tolvanen and Hartman as younger pieces they could win it now and they have a future starter in Saros they could win it this year and they have the best defence in the league they could definitely win the cup but do you think Johansen is a number one centre?
No
 

CobraAcesS

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Well, I said earlier I felt inspired to try and rank the GMs 1-31, and here it is. If you're bored have a look-see. I am always open to any and all critiques.

Ranking the NHL’s General Managers, 1-31

Except if you don't like the rankings. Or reasoning behind the rankings. Or the words I used. Or the order I put the words in. Or

McPhee at #4? You crazy

He may be the luckiest GM ever. I can't think of much hes done that stands out specifically besides bad trades. He built Vegas to be a lottery team and the players/coach had different ideas. Hes basically admitted as much. I give him zero credit for what Vegas did.

MAF was an easy no brainer pick, as was hiring the only coach on the market with recent proven experience.

McPhee isn't a horrible GM overall, but a top tier GM? Nah..
 
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Pokecheque

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McPhee at #4? You crazy

He may be the luckiest GM ever. I can't think of much hes done that stands out specifically besides bad trades. He built Vegas to be a lottery team and the players/coach had different ideas. Hes basically admitted as much. I give him zero credit for what Vegas did.

MAF was an easy no brainer pick, as was hiring the only coach on the market with recent proven experience.

McPhee isn't a horrible GM overall, but a top tier GM? Nah..

I get it. Ranking the top three was fairly easy, ranking the bottom five was even easier, but it was a real struggle to do the in-between. Some guys are too new, and I truly believe (and probably should've stated this outright in the post somewhere) that a majority of GMs currently employed in the NHL range between mediocre and bad. So McPhee's high ranking isn't necessarily me holding him in high esteem, it's that I struggled to really rank anyone else above him. In hindsight, I probably should've put Bowman there, but his actions of late have just been plain stupid. Call McPhee lucky if you wish, that's undeniable, but the man built and then rebuilt the Washington Capitals into a contender, then put together a roster that had the most successful inaugural year in sports history. Some of that was sheer, dumb luck (which, if you think about it, guides a whole lot of sports outcomes everywhere), some of it was McPhee's craftiness, and some of it was a whole lot of dumb GMs doing dumb things. When a guy more or less outsmarts most of his cohorts, he deserves a pretty high ranking. He doesn't deserve all the credit, but giving him zero credit is ridiculous, and you can't deny his past accomplishments as just sheer "luck."
 
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Sea Eagles

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Has there ever been a GM, that has improved his team from 48 points to 95 points ?
A 47 point improvement, which I was told was impossible.

Therefore, Super Joe achieved the impossible.

That should tell you about his results.
 

Gigantor The Goalie

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Has there ever been a GM, that has improved his team from 48 points to 95 points ?
A 47 point improvement, which I was told was impossible.

Therefore, Super Joe achieved the impossible.

That should tell you about his results.

The Sharks hold the record going from 24 points to 82 points (58 points)

Pittsburgh also had a similar point turnaround to the Avs going from 58 to 105 points in the mid 2000's

The Nordiques went from 52 to 104 points

Then there's the OG Jets going from 32 points to 80
 

Pokecheque

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Has there ever been a GM, that has improved his team from 48 points to 95 points ?
A 47 point improvement, which I was told was impossible.

Therefore, Super Joe achieved the impossible.

That should tell you about his results.

Not to rain on your parade, but Super Joe also shepherded the team into that 48-point season, and a number of players who helped make it happen (Tyutin, Colborne, and to a lesser extent Wiercioch and Not-Gabe Bourque) were his signings. He deserves credit for the turnaround, especially for his due diligence and patience. He didn't panic, didn't fire the coach, didn't trade Duchene just to trade him (lookin' at YOU, Botterill). However, he also deserves (partial) blame for what happened in the previous season.

He helped the old lady across the street, but he also kicked the old lady in the shin when no one was looking.
 

Sea Eagles

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Not to rain on your parade, but Super Joe also shepherded the team into that 48-point season, and a number of players who helped make it happen (Tyutin, Colborne, and to a lesser extent Wiercioch and Not-Gabe Bourque) were his signings. He deserves credit for the turnaround, especially for his due diligence and patience. He didn't panic, didn't fire the coach, didn't trade Duchene just to trade him (lookin' at YOU, Botterill). However, he also deserves (partial) blame for what happened in the previous season.

He helped the old lady across the street, but he also kicked the old lady in the shin when no one was looking.
Sakic didn't cause the massive injury toll on that team, mate.
 

ABasin

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Sakic didn't cause the massive injury toll on that team, mate.

You can’t cherry pick, Eagles. Or you can’t credibly do so.

As the person in charge, Sakic made a number of dreadful draft/personnel decisions that led the Avs to the worst season-long result in a quarter century in the NHL. And yes, if the people who reported to him underperformed, that’s still reflective of Sakic’s performance. He was in charge.

That’s really bad.

Then he made some really good decisions that showed very positive results last year, and have seemingly set the Avs up nicely for the near future.

That’s very good.

Ignoring one but not the other (or making excuses for one but not the other) - in either direction - isn’t credible, IMO.
 
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arun

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Call McPhee lucky if you wish, that's undeniable, but the man built and then rebuilt the Washington Capitals into a contender, then put together a roster that had the most successful inaugural year in sports history.

Vegas did well, for sure. But the bold, italic part is a bit of a bold statement :).
I mean.. a team won a cup after moving to a place called Colorado.
 

AvsMakar08

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Sakic didn't cause the massive injury toll on that team, mate.

Sea Eagles. Sakic has not made any single bad mistake in the past 18 month. I have been watching his every move. Changed this franchise upside down by signing top colege players, drafted future impact players and made some awesome trades (Duchene). Signed some decent vets to short term deals.
Sakic only made mistakes when he was a young GM and then also Roy infuenced some of those trades, signings.

Pokecheque will have Sakic listed in the top 10GM if not in the top 5GM overall next year. If Josty matures he can play with Kaut next season and maybe if Ottawa's pick hits top 5 pick next year we will have an awesome 2nd line next season... without Sakic making any big moves. Then we will also see Makar and Timmins... Grier on the third line as our top pest. This team is going to be very good in 1 year.

I know you like Barrie, but if Sakic is a smart GM and sees that he cannot get a deal done with Barrie, trading him for top line winger or 1st rounders is also a possibility. Sakic to me has been a very good GM for the past 18 month. He has not made a single bad mistake or a deal.
 

Pokecheque

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Sakic didn't cause the massive injury toll on that team, mate.

You can't just chalk that failure up to injuries. The 2017-18 had a run of bad luck with injuries too, they still made the playoffs. That was a generationally bad team, even on paper they had a talented core surrounded by absolute garbage. Of all the players that left that roster in 2018, one guy (Beauchemin) managed to stay in the NHL, and he too is now gone. Sakic doesn't deserve all, or even most of the blame, but he by NO means escapes it.
 
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