News Article: Joe Murphy, Common CTE Symptoms, not a fun read

[avssuc]

It sounds similar to the Mike Webster story, only you need to sub meth for adderall, and bank on the inevitable early death of Joe Murphy. Not a fun read, but necessary for anyone that enjoys the product that put this man where he is.



Joe Murphy, Red Wings' No. 1 pick, is homeless again and refusing help

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[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Such a sad story all around.

 

[vladdy16]

I dont think its fair or correct to link Murphy into the current conversation regarding athlete safety.

Not saying if you don't know about the issue of cte that this case isnt something to think strongly on in a hypothetical sense.

That said, the things Murphy has talked about in the past, make it clear that more should've/could've been done, there should be no debate about that.

 

[Retire91]

What a sad story I just can't imagine having that much success and end up alone on the street. I've worked as a volunteer at several homeless shelters and what always struck me is the mental illness being the common thread. I want to say 80% of homelessness is some untreated mental issue where the family and friends weren't able to. Some say addiction is a cause but I put mental illness ahead of that, usually, addiction is usually an attempt to self medicate a mental illness. Some cases are financial like the family had a house fire and had no insurance, some cases are people running away from terrible families at a young age and never elevate past the lack of a support system. Those are the easier cases to help but, unfortunately, are much more rare than a mental illness where the person is incapable of taking care of themselves and has been abandoned.

I don't really know the answer someone like Joe Murphy needs 24-hour care for life with a state-appointed guardian that has financial and medical power of attorney. But very few states have adequately funded staff and facilities to care for all the Joe Murphy's of the world. So they die alone on the street.

I have a friend a lot like Joe Murphy who is a former college graduate with honors and attorney. He is not on the street yet but he is hell-bent on destroying himself and refuses any treatment for bi-polar manic depression and is in a self-medicating downward spiral. In order to help people and my friend there needs to be infrastructure backed by public funding. And even that might not work as seen by the poor conditions of mental health institutions back in the 70's and 80's. They were basically just dungeons that locked them out of sight.

 

[FMichael]

What a sad story I just can't imagine having that much success and end up alone on the street. I've worked as a volunteer at several homeless shelters and what always struck me is the mental illness being the common thread. I want to say 80% of homelessness is some untreated mental issue where the family and friends weren't able to or decided not to help. Some say addiction is a cause but I put mental illness ahead of that, usually, addiction is usually an attempt to self medicate a mental illness. Some cases are financial like the family had a house fire and had no insurance, some cases are people running away from terrible families at a young age and never elevate past the lack of a support system. Those are the easier cases to help but, unfortunately, are much more rare than a mental illness where the person is incapable of taking care of themselves and has been abandoned.

I don't really know the answer someone like Joe Murphy needs 24-hour care for life with a state-appointed guardian that has financial and medical power of attorney. But very few states have adequately funded staff and facilities to care for all the Joe Murphy's of the world. So they die alone on the street.

I have a friend a lot like Joe Murphy who is a former college graduate with honors and attorney. He is not on the street yet but he is hell-bent on destroying himself and refuses any treatment for bi-polar manic depression and is in a self-medicating downward spiral. In order to help people and my friend there needs to be infrastructure backed by public funding. And even that might not work as seen by the poor conditions of mental health institutions back in the 70's and 80's. They were basically just dungeons that locked them out of sight.

The #1 issue with people like your friend, and Joe Murphy is that they themselves must want to seek help. As the article mentioned dozens have tried with no luck.

While deemed cruel - the institutions you mentioned were probably one of the few ways, or means to get these folks off the street, and outta harms way.

There’s no simple/efficient answer to the growing mental health, and drug/alcohol addiction in today’s society.

 

[Retire91]

Maybe it's a hard line but someone like Joe needs medication whether he wants it or not. From the sounds of it, I would say schizophrenia. The state can declare him medically unfit to make his own decisions about his care and assign someone as a guardian. If the community's policy is to allow them on the streets unmolested I respect that decision. And hopefully, they support and help fund their local homeless assistance centers. But I would also support and even advocate that someone like Joe be institutionalized for his own health and the health of those around him. The problem with that is such institutions are often underfunded to the point of being ineffective so it's not realistic and more of an idealist thought. I just wish society put more money and effort into treating mental illness.

 

[Killerjas]

Maybe it's a hard line but someone like Joe needs medication whether he wants it or not. From the sounds of it, I would say schizophrenia. The state can declare him medically unfit to make his own decisions about his care and assign someone as a guardian. If the community's policy is to allow them on the streets unmolested I respect that decision. And hopefully, they support and help fund their local homeless assistance centers. But I would also support and even advocate that someone like Joe be institutionalized for his own health and the health of those around him. The problem with that is such institutions are often underfunded to the point of being ineffective so it's not realistic and more of an idealist thought. I just wish society put more money and effort into treating mental illness.

You cant help someone that can't help themselves

 

[vladdy16]

You cant help someone that can't help themselves

That's a ridiculous thing to say.

 

[Leafsrock95]

You cant help someone that can't help themselves

You can’t help someone who doesn’t want to help themselves.

You can help someone that can’t help themselves

 

[avssuc]

I dont think its 1) correct to link Murphy into the current conversation regarding athlete safety.

2) Not saying if you don't know about the issue of cte that this case isnt something to think strongly on in a hypothetical sense.

That said, the 3) things Murphy has talked about in the past, make it clear that more should've/could've been done, there should be no debate about that.

1) Roger Goodell or Gary Bettman couldn't have said it better. We all know CTE is impossible to diagnose without death, but there's been plenty of that of late... and the stats don't support suppositions that remove league liability. BU Researchers Find CTE in 99% of Former NFL Players Studied Ignoring or underplaying the epigenetic factors from his time as an NHLer is terribly reckless at best, potentially lethal at worst.

2) This issue is one I'm familiar with and passionate about. I've had to deal with 2 documented TBIs (traumatic brain injuries), 1 blast/IED, 1 impact, over the past 2 decades spent in the military. Probably several more on the journey, but as drunk as I was for the others, the blackouts might not be impact related. I've had cognitive tests regularly, been hospitalized as inpatient and out, and met many fighting the same battle to find a sense of normal after head and emotional trauma. I've had several friends end their lives, talked for hours with others that wanted to, and contemplated my own at one point. Is it possible that all of us were predisposed to not being good at 'regular life s**t' after a couple decades of being ridden hard and put up wet? Sure... but there's no science to support that either.

I don't know what happened to my brain, neither do the doctors... but the science of killology is intentionally vague because of the reality of modern warfare and the world order of finance it protects. That's how I see the NHL and NFL dealing with fallout that comes from journeymen like Joe Murphy. It's much easier to wax plausible deniability than it is to cut into league revenue.

3) Past what? What did his draft vetting say about mental illness? Again, a basic accounting of work related epigenetic causality is key. His genetic likelyhood and family history of mental illness is almost moot when you account for the fact that he toiled over 2 decades (15 years professionally) in a field where brain trauma is a constant.

 

[vladdy16]

The point is that, you me and frankly everybody else in the world, besides his sister maybe, have way too limited knowledge regarding Murphy's situation to make anywhere near a positive determination.

Comparing that view, to the view of hellaciously corrupt and spineless leaders like Bettman and Goodell, requires so much presumption. My concern is with preserving the integrity of investigation and research into cte, and likewise Murphys specific situation. They might probably be correlated, but I wouldnt want either venture to be derailed if that turned out not to be the case.

I 100% believe in CTE. I 100% believe that Murphy was neglected by the system. I 100% believe he should go to a doctor asap.

But like I said, we simply don't know in regards to Murphy. Logically and plausibly it could be something else from cte. And if it is something else, that shouldn't mean that CTE isnt an incredibly serious issue, and it certainly shouldnt mean that Murphy isn't entitled to help/sympathy/intervention.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

The reason the title was edited by me to symptoms was we simply don't know. Frankly we don't know a lot about CTE. It is now more regularly being studied outside of the sporting context as well which should accelerate some of what we learn.

I have heard it is prevalent with alcohol and drug abusers as well. As indicated above it is found often with our brave men and women in the armed services. Thank you for your service @avssuc.

But my issue is that it is still very early in the process. Perhaps we are finding out more about brain degeneration. My grandfather's brain shrank right before death and I remember the doctor at the hospital said he had no explanation. For as much as we think we know on this, we are not there definitively and certainly not with the living.

From this crushing article Murphy's issues are profound and heartbreaking. But with drug abuse that we know impacts the brain I understand why commissioners are wary of commitment. The BU research is important but keep in mind it is still voluntary. Does it surprise me that Probert had CTE? No, but he made a lot of awful choices away from the rink too, what do we think the impact is of substance abuse something long linked to brain damage.

We will see, it is certainly a very important issue. But people entrenching on sides this early in the process or attributing the disease before actual diagnosis need to be careful in my opinion. There is still so much of this we don't understand or have a strong enough sample to correlate. I did a paper on concussions in sport in college and can tell you entire segments of that are now outdated in the last 15 years. They have discovered so much more, hopefully we get more answers as soon as possible, there are a lot of people in dire need of improvement on our understanding, diagnosis and treatment moving forward.

 

[avssuc]

The reason the title was edited by me to symptoms was we simply don't know. Frankly we don't know a lot about CTE. It is now more regularly being studied outside of the sporting context as well which should accelerate some of what we learn.

I have heard it is prevalent with alcohol and drug abusers as well. As indicated above it is found often with our brave men and women in the armed services. Thank you for your service @avssuc.

But my issue is that it is still very early in the process. Perhaps we are finding out more about brain degeneration. My grandfather's brain shrank right before death and I remember the doctor at the hospital said he had no explanation. For as much as we think we know on this, we are not there definitively and certainly not with the living.

From this crushing article Murphy's issues are profound and heartbreaking. But with drug abuse that we know impacts the brain I understand why commissioners are wary of commitment. The BU research is important but keep in mind it is still voluntary. Does it surprise me that Probert had CTE? No, but he made a lot of awful choices away from the rink tio, what do we think the impact is of substance abuse something long linked to brain damage.

We will see, it is certainly a very important issue. But people entrenching on sides this early in the process or attributing the disease before actual diagnosis need to be careful in my opinion. There is still so much of this we don't understand or have a strong enough sample to correlate. I did a paper on concussions in sport in college and can tell you entire segments of that are now outdated in the last 15 years. They have discovered so much more, hopefully we get more answers as soon as possible, there are a lot of people in dire need of improvement on our understanding, diagnosis and treatment moving forward.

Doctors have known about the link between head trauma and mental illness since Roman times where Gladiators would sometimes kill themselves with public toilet brushes. This isn't something just discovered, but our bread and circus providers would appreciate it if we trusted only the medical information that they sign off on. The faith that you and others share in the cautious medical industrial complex narrative is too much for me. I mean, if it weren't for some African doctor that didn't like football tripping over Mike Webster's corpse, we wouldn't have nearly the picture we do today. Would they have even a fraction of the 200 former NFL players from the 2017 study I linked where 99% of the 200 had CTE? Almost all of the medical community covering CTE act publicly as puppets in a play written by the ghost of Ivy Lee, like Team America, but less clever. I didn't write a paper on CTE in college like you, but I did write one on PSYOPS, COINTELPRO, Op MOCKINGBIRD, and the lot. Having helped conduct psychological warfare operations, I wanted a better understanding of the history and usage. Boy was that a can of worms. Military TA well spent tho... because now I get to assume that any situation where too much capital is involved is almost a total fabrication, the public explanation of that situation anyway.

Your reply is milquetoast. The kind of reply that would stay monetized on YouTube and get a thumbs up from NHL suits. I 'typically' appreciate someone that stands firmly on middle ground (since the answer is almost always in the middle), but the body count is getting too high for me. As Americans we pretty much have blood on our hands from birth and get dirtier as we learn to be apathetic about issues that matter (issues that fairly obviously controlled by corporate narrative). CTE is one of those issues.

And service personnel aren't brave, it's just a job. I know that obedient Americans are instructed to give thanks in the form of voice, printed/digital text, or catchy memes shared on social media around xenophobic/jingoistic holidays... but it's just a job. A job that most don't want, so those that hoard capital use drafts and poverty recruitment (poverty draft) to force people into the ranks. I understand that the intentions behind 'TYFYS' are sometimes genuine and empathetic, but true empathy is much more... it's an understanding of power dynamics, and how they are used against us in our daily lives.

 

[vladdy16]

Not a single mention of Joe Murphy in that whole post.

Not being combative, because I could see how it seems like the tone of the thread is being dampened by wishy washy bs from us.

From my perspective, it is quite the opposite. I share almost all of your sentiments and suspicions. But you can see that I am as equally concerned that you are dismissing the travesties and consequences of homelessness as you are that i am glossing over the impact of cte.

I am not in favor of a bottom up approach to corruption and hypocrisy and exploitation. Our qualms with Murphy's situation reach much farther than any intervention, press conference, rules meeting, compensation/legislation can reach.

 

[avssuc]

Not a single mention of Joe Murphy in that whole post.

Not being combative, because I could see how it seems like the tone of the thread is being dampened by wishy washy bs from us.

From my perspective, it is quite the opposite. I share almost all of your sentiments and suspicions. But you can see that I am as equally concerned that you are dismissing the travesties and consequences of homelessness as you are that i am glossing over the impact of cte.

I am not in favor of a bottom up approach to corruption and hypocrisy and exploitation. Our qualms with Murphy's situation reach much farther than any intervention, press conference, rules meeting, compensation/legislation can reach.

I could probably do a better job of communicating, being less of a d**k in my content, but that's not me. Nothing you've added has been combative. In fact, I'd rather deal with combative sentiment than the bland, tow the corporate line BS. Your comments are tethered and topical, no offense over here.

I can't deny what you've mentioned, but I'm either too salty or to mentally atrophied to approach in similar fashion. I understand the the detriment of absolutes, but I think the CTE/TBI topic is an instance where we can err on the side of absolute to try and affect change. The cost of better transportation for troops, hyperbaric therapy for vets, and rule changes and compensation for destitute former pro NFL and NHL players is a very small price to pay. Even if those like me are wrong, the cost of erring that way is nothing compared to the mounting human cost of playing hot potato now.

I appreciate that you mentioned the issue of homelessness. Never would I consciously attempt to overlook or dampen this issue, but I agree with the point you made.

Addressing this point, homelessness is something seen in both the vet TBI/PTSD and CTE pro athlete communities. I've had 4 of my close friends take to the streets, 2 made it out, 2 disappeared. I had the 2 that disappeared live with me for a spell, but neither one wanted to be a part of our society anymore. Can't say as I blame them because there's some romantic feels about leaving this s**t reality...
but I know that their absence deeply hurts family and friends. I'll never stop asking myself if I did enough to try and help them and neither will the rest of the blood and work families.

At this point in our evolution, it's difficult for me to understand why homelessness is still an issue. Still, even if homes were a guaranty for all, I believe some would still choose to get away from what we've built, and I can't fault them for that. We live in a predatory world filled with practices like planned obsolescence, archaic fables speaking of 'invisible hands' in market economics providing for the poor, 'acceptable' amounts of collateral damage, etc, etc. Through the 800,000 years we've been around, only since the Neolithic revolution 10,000 years ago have we forced settlement in such numbers... so maybe we just have zero clue on how to organize... who really knows, I sure as f**k don't. I do know there's a problem tho.

The issue of homelessness is closely related to CTE, TBI, and PTSD, but I think it's more of a symptom and less of a precursor in cases where homelessness occurred after detrimental epigenetic exposure (CTE, TBI, PTSD). I know that epigenetics is a controversial topic, but there are plenty of rea$on$ why that's the case.

 

[avssuc]

The VA has studied this treatment and decided that it wasn't effective. Hyperbaric therapy is far from anecdotal, there's plenty of reasons why it should be an included treatment at this point. The problem is that it's too costly for the VA.

So those of you that don't relate the NFL/NHL CTE issue with healthcare for vets with TBI, you are directly standing on our collective d**k.

 

[Winger98]

Mod Warning

Just a quick note to not drift into politics here. If it feels as if a post has drifted too far afield, it will just be deleted and whatever other necessary actions will be taken.